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RE: "true" BDSM - 8/18/2008 3:52:43 PM

NuevaVida

Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
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It's funny. Who's to say what's right, anyway? Life happens and we change with it, and what we believe today may not be what we believe tomorrow. For someone with a "My way is the only way" attitude, I ask, Until when? Until you don't believe that way anymore?

We're all just humans moving through this world, adapting and evolving as our circumstances change. May we all do the best we can at finding happiness. It doesn't matter to me how differently others express their relationships or their bdsm activities within the relationship. What matters is if they are happy, and if they are willing to share their own insight so that others (myself included) can learn from them.

I know I am changing. I don't know where I'll end up, or if I would even be interested in doing some of the things my former Master and I did. I certainly don't regret doing anything with him; I just don't know if those are things I would engage in with anyone else. Time will tell.

So, in response to the title of this thread, "true" bdsm is subject to interpretation. It's whatever those within a relationship express with each other in keeping true to themselves and their happiness.

I guess I'm in a reflective mood today...

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 21

RE: "true" BDSM - 8/18/2008 4:05:23 PM

UR2Badored

Posts: 506
Joined: 2/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

We're all just humans moving through this world, adapting and evolving as our circumstances change. May we all do the best we can at finding happiness. It doesn't matter to me how differently others express their relationships or their bdsm activities within the relationship. What matters is if they are happy, and if they are willing to share their own insight so that others (myself included) can learn from them.

I know I am changing. I don't know where I'll end up, or if I would even be interested in doing some of the things my former Master and I did. I certainly don't regret doing anything with him; I just don't know if those are things I would engage in with anyone else. Time will tell.

So, in response to the title of this thread, "true" bdsm is subject to interpretation. It's whatever those within a relationship express with each other in keeping true to themselves and their happiness.

I guess I'm in a reflective mood today...

Great post....I think my prior post had a somewhat negative spin on this but I agree in what you've written. My beliefs have changed significantly in the past 20 years...quite possibly every three years I have changed completely in my beliefs of what is right and wrong for me.

_____________________________

A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way
Mark Twain

(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 22

RE: "true" BDSM - 8/18/2008 5:52:45 PM

catize

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline

People have been practicing various aspects of what we call BDSM for centuries. What I find both sad and amusing are the folks on this and other forums who seem to believe that if you aren’t at their “level”, either down their scale or up, you are wrong and the sky will fall!

My way is best---for me. I have reached a comfort zone and know my limitations clearly; I’m not at the wading end of the pool, neither do I desire to attempt swimming miles in the ocean. To my way of thinking, that makes me realistic enough to avoid becoming shark bait. And I’m happy for those who are content with whatever way they choose to live.

I don’t personally know anyone on this forum. The D/s couples I do know are married and monogamous; one couple is very much into pain play, another strictly D/s without the S+M.

Both of the men I submit to are very different in some ways and alike in others. I tease them that they are the closest I’ve ever come to having a long-term relationship. We are not monogamous nor poly. What matters is we are happy with our arrangements. I’m not about to let someone’s words on the screen make me believe I’m not ‘true’ or ‘real’ in my submission because it is not only validated but valued by both men in my life, just as I value their dominance. Isn’t that what it should be all about?

~Excellent post, Michael, thank-you~

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 23

RE: "true" BDSM - 8/18/2008 6:07:41 PM

lizcgirl

Posts: 287
Joined: 4/13/2008
Status: offline

I have made some amazing friends on here, all of them different and unique in their own way. I became very close to a few Doms that were as different as night and day from each other and would never work in a relationship with me, but we enjoy sharing our differences. One is much more into taboo than I am, another was only into OL interactions, and I don't view them as less or more 'true' than the next person, just different. I've also become very close to a couple subs and I find that our commonality isn't in the exact dynamic of our relationships but in our desire to serve in whatever manner works for us individually. On a whole, every one of the people I met here that I now consider my very dear friends are very diverse, but also very open minded as well. The freedom to share real conversation with people who understand and don't pass judgement is amazing and I love getting to know them and talking about whatever crosses our minds.

_____________________________

Never make some one a priority when all you are to them is an option.

(in reply to UR2Badored)

Post #: 24

RE: "true" BDSM - 8/18/2008 6:12:37 PM

SingleRarity

Posts: 320
Joined: 9/13/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: catize
To my way of thinking, that makes me realistic enough to avoid becoming shark bait.

Sharks often feed near the shoreline. Next time you're in Florida if you can manage to wake up around dawn, just watch the shoreline. You'll see one or two cruising. It's really fun to watch the dolphins run them off.

(To clarify, I'm talking about actuall sharks, and I'm just playing with you, not trying to be critical. I play nice with others.)

And so I'm not derailing the post, I'll add that I too enjoy reading MercN'Beth's posts. Her every word reflects so strongly on her slavery to him. It's quite beautiful.

Daddy's Ballerina "e"...who is suddenly missing the white sandy beaches of home, sharks and all.

< Message edited by SingleRarity -- 8/18/2008 6:13:20 PM >

(in reply to catize)

Post #: 25

RE: "true" BDSM - 8/18/2008 6:22:15 PM

catize

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline

Ummmm, I'll just wait for the video, okay?

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to SingleRarity)

Post #: 26

RE: "true" BDSM - 8/18/2008 6:24:39 PM

SingleRarity

Posts: 320
Joined: 9/13/2006
Status: offline

They're not the big ones, well, I've never seen a really big anyways.....

(in reply to catize)

Post #: 27

RE: "true" BDSM - 8/18/2008 6:53:55 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

~ Fast Reply ~

The way some days go - this one didn't permit much internet leisure time. I didn't know Michael had put us out there like this. We don't have a problem with it, after all we're here to meet people. CM has been very good at providing us tremendous opportunity. This weekend we attended a birthday 'play' party and met a couple who knew us from CM. After spending some time with us their there comment was; "You two are both just like you post on CM - only more so!" I thought was okay.

We very much enjoy our life together. We have fun each and every day. We post about the experiences we share. It is humbling to think people think of us at all, let alone as an example, even if it is one not desired. Thanks Michael and to all who have commented. We wish you could meet all of you.

(in reply to SingleRarity)

Post #: 28

RE: "true" BDSM - 8/18/2008 7:54:46 PM

MmeGigs

Posts: 706
Joined: 1/26/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527
Sadly, if the BDSM community were not so intent on declaring how different it was from the rest of reality and therefor having to re-invent the wheel over and over, it probably would be possible to lay out some general characteristics of what it means to be a good dom or a good sub in general without reference to a specific relationship.

I don't think that it's possible to objectively quantify "good dom" or "good sub" without reference to a specific relationship. These things only exist in the context of a relationship. I can argue that I'm a dom whether or not I have a sub, but being a "good dom" is mostly about the way that I express my domliness in the context of my relationship(s), is it not? Any definition of "good dom" or "good sub" that folks could come up with that would get fairly broad agreement would have to be so general and non-specific or so full of disclaimers that it would be pretty much meaningless. It's like trying to define "good employee" without reference to a specific job. Doesn't steal from the company, is decent to coworkers/clients/customers, performs tasks to the employer's satisfaction... when you start getting more specific that this, you start having a lot of exceptions. Same-same with kink.

quote:

But such discussions are boundary triggers in the BDSM world and the BDSM safe-word gets trotted out.. don't judge my kink.

I've seen a lot of these discussions and declarations over the years - both the "We need common definitions" and "Don't judge my kink" stuff. They're common as dandelions. Attempts to objectively define kinky roles and come up with commonly accepted definitions do annoy me, but I'm pretty sure I don't fall into the "intent on declaring how different" camp.

I feel blessed that my first forays into the world of BDSM philosophy were in a venue where YKIOK (Your Kink Is OK) was the prevailing culture - SSBB on usenet, for those of you who've been there (and I know some of you were). Many of the folks there 10+ years ago are the folks whose books are nearly required reading in the kinky world these days. While there was some disagreement on really edgy things like breathplay and guns, for the most part the culture was very intolerant of intolerance. I learned a lot from participating in that venue that shaped a kink/life philosophy that I feel very comfortable with:

If you and your partner(s) are happy, it's none of anyone's business what you're doing unless you ask for their opinion or invite them to join you.
My squicks do not define everyone else's limits. Unless I'm ready to call the authorities or personally intervene to stop folks from doing something, it's not my place to tell them they shouldn't be doing it.
Kinks are neither OK nor Not OK - it's all in the way you act them out. I can kiss someone in a Not OK way (I have freinds who are rather kiss-phobic), and could kill someone in an OK way (imagine beloved spouse or partner in final, painful stages of terminal disease who wanted to go out with a bang). We're all very different and want very different things, and consent is the only more or less objective delimiter we have between OK and Not OK.
Anyone who claims to know the One True Way, to be a "true", "natural" or "real" sub/dom/top/bottom/whatever, or to have a precise definition for the labels we use is probably full of shit and should be ignored, giggled at, or strongly encouraged to adopt a more inclusive worldview.

quote:

I absolutely could lay down some fundamentals for what a "true leader" looked like in any other context.

Would those things be more than broad generalizations? The qualities needed in a "true leader" depend on the context - the relationship the leader has with those they are leading. The requirements for a fast food shift manager would be very different from those for a volunteer coordinator or high-school teacher or parent or elected official, but all of these folks are leaders.

What benefit is there in objectively defining "good dom" or "good sub" when the only judgments of domliness or subliness that are the least bit important are those subjective judgments made in the context of a relationship?

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 29

RE: "true" BDSM - 8/18/2008 8:11:31 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Anyone else share this opinion?

Yes... Interacting and/or observing people or are happy living their life is a joy to be around. This is not to say that these individuals need to be on cloud nine every day... but they are indeed happy with the path they are traveling. It is even better to when they let you see abit of how they live so you can appreciate them alittle better. Due to the fact that we live in a very isolate area and seldom have opportunities to be in close contact with lifestyle friendly people, we have a found value in CM to learn more of some great people. A very small few we have met... but there are many here we would love to meet. It is those that are comfortable with the way they live and are not trying to sell the way to live for others that interest me the most. But, it is even more exceptional to meet people of strong character. People that you can admire for who they are and not what they do. It takes long to learn and appreciate the character of a person. It goes beyond the surface personality that we as strangers get to see. But on the forum like this.. with time.. you can begin to appreciate some of the admirable characteristics of the various posters. Like fine wine.. it takes time.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 30

RE: "true" BDSM - 8/18/2008 8:24:23 PM

Kalista07

Posts: 4240
Joined: 7/1/2007
Status: offline

Michael,
i must tell You how much i value not only this current thread, but the obvious transparency with which You generally communicate on here..... i agree with what You said in Your post. i hope my thoughts are on track, but if not.....well.....whatcha gona do?
i must tell You that i judge everyone and everything i come into contact with.....And i would hope that most of You do as well. i don't, however, stand in judgement of them....And to me, there is a difference. i need to judge everyone i come into contact with for a variety of reasons: to see if they are trustworthy, to see if they are honest, to determine whether they are a good influence or a negative influence on my life. Does that make me a bad person? i'm okay if it does...
The reality for me in our relationship is that it's so far from the relationship i imagined when i met Him on here a year ago... And while i know many people can (AND HAVE) jump on the whole bandwagon of i should just leave Him because we've been together a year now and not had sex and the D/s in our relationship currently is very minimal....However, those people haven't been there with me when i've been so neurotic about the way i look that i cry and want to not leave the house. Those people are not on the phone with me when i go back home to see the kids and am flipping out because somehow i wasn't prepared to have flashbacks... Hell, these people also weren't with me when i went to the ER recently and they drugged me up and i started to lose it. Those people also aren't here when He makes me laugh such a sweet, innocent, and pure laugh that i never dreamed i would be capable of again... Those people are not here at night when we are laying in bed together and i wish that for once, time would just stand still. Those people also aren't with me during the day when i get a text message from Him when i'm at work and he tells me He's thinking of me....
For me, i am currently happier than i have ever been and then i imagined i was even capable of. i really previously believed i must have been an evil, horrible, bad person in a past life because i could not even begin to dream of a relationship that would produce such positive feelings in me.
My point in this rambling drivel is, who am i to judge what 'works' in another person's relationship? Would i like to change some parts of our relationship? Sure!! However, the reality is i am open and willing enough to communicate my needs to Him today. And He's receptive and loving enough that when they are something that i need to be met, instead of just want to be met, He's willling to work on those things.
i have no idea if any of this makes any sense.
Kali

< Message edited by Kalista07 -- 8/18/2008 8:27:12 PM >

_____________________________

“Love me when I least deserve it, because that's when I really need it.”
~~Sweedish Proverb

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 31

RE: "true" BDSM - 8/18/2008 9:04:22 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
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Kalista,

It makes perfect sense and is the point of this whole thread.

In fact, upon reflection, this is why I adore CM so much. I have often joked of forming the "bdsm group for people who hate bdsm groups" and in fact CM is very much that in many ways. There are some wonderful people who post deep insightful stuff who either would never go back to a bdsm club, or would never go in the first place. There are people like Merc and I who love attending stuff but also love our time away. And of course there are people here who attend everything. The point is, this place is a wonderful wonderful mix of very interesting people who bring a vast amount of experience to the discussions on here. I have said this before but if I had found a place like CM when I first entered the scene I would have been one of those young pompous asses who everyone pats on the head or hits with a cluex4 but I would have experienced far faster maturation than I did having to do it essentially on my own in a vacuum.

Anyway, thanks for all the wonderful contributions, I hope it continues.

(in reply to Kalista07)

Post #: 32

RE: "true" BDSM - 8/18/2008 9:23:30 PM

angelslave77

Posts: 478
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline

Sir and I are fortunate enough to call MaamJay and her Master close friends. They are an amazing couple and we have learnt so much from them. Watching not only how they play but just how they ineract is so facinating and so very different to how Sir and I relate and still we all get along really well.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 33

RE: "true" BDSM - 8/19/2008 2:26:20 AM

DomRoss

Posts: 2
Joined: 7/11/2005
Status: offline

While I appreciate the sentiment offered by the OP i personally get quite disheartened at the number of relationship failures that seem to beset BDSMers.

It may be the feeling that you have to kiss many frogs to find your prince etc, and while I appreciate that may be the case, I get the feeling its more about people being dishonest.

So while I admire the people who have found the other half to themselves and who make each other happy, it would appear that they are the exception rather than the rule

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 34

RE: "true" BDSM - 8/19/2008 4:01:10 AM

Evility

Posts: 915
Joined: 12/19/2007
Status: offline

I agree with you for the most part. I think if two people are happy that's far out. Whatever path they travel to reach their common ground is fine by me and more power to them. While my expression of my own opinions on the matter should never be misconstrued as disapproval... I do reserve the right to express those opinions.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 35

RE: "true" BDSM - 8/19/2008 4:53:23 AM

eyesopened

Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
I cringe to imagine what I would have missed out on had I refused to see the value in what others have, just because they are vastly different people with vastly different styles of living. I honestly treasure the tidbits that the people that are doing this in their life, in their home, daily, share with us.

What she said....

InkedMaster and I are fairly private people and it's not likely anyone here will meet us in real life but never say never. It has been helpful to me to read others' opinions, especially those that don't agree with my own because it allows me a chance to see things differently which helps in my personal growth.

Interesting post, Michael. Just yesterday I was talking with my mother (hasn't met my Master yet and I am not "out" to my family) and she made the comment "You just sound so happy! He must be a wonderful man." When my offspring met him, their comment was "It's amazing, you two just seem to fit so perfectly!" Really, the comments of those I love mean everything to me and the comments of e-strangers can't bother me. While transitioning from weekend visits every 6-8 weeks to a full 24/7 should contain a fair amount of challenges, it's been surprisingly smooth, as though living together was the natural thing and living apart was unnatural.

_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 36

RE: "true" BDSM - 8/19/2008 4:28:39 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

Interesting post, Michael. Just yesterday I was talking with my mother (hasn't met my Master yet and I am not "out" to my family) and she made the comment "You just sound so happy! He must be a wonderful man." When my offspring met him, their comment was "It's amazing, you two just seem to fit so perfectly!" Really, the comments of those I love mean everything to me and the comments of e-strangers can't bother me. While transitioning from weekend visits every 6-8 weeks to a full 24/7 should contain a fair amount of challenges, it's been surprisingly smooth, as though living together was the natural thing and living apart was unnatural.

I wish you the best of luck!

(in reply to eyesopened)

Post #: 37

RE: "true" BDSM - 8/19/2008 4:51:05 PM

NuevaVida

Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline

Yay, your thread came back!! I was enjoying it and was disappointed when it disappeared. My thanks to the powers that be for reseurrecting it.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 38

RE: "true" BDSM - 8/19/2008 4:54:16 PM

Kalista07

Posts: 4240
Joined: 7/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

Yay, your thread came back!! I was enjoying it and was disappointed when it disappeared. My thanks to the powers that be for reseurrecting it.

i must second this statement....... That and i thought maybe i had hallucinated the whole thing..........................

Kali

_____________________________

“Love me when I least deserve it, because that's when I really need it.”
~~Sweedish Proverb

(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 39

RE: "true" BDSM - 8/19/2008 4:58:16 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

The jackbooted thug

Mod 11 saved the day!

(in reply to Kalista07)

Post #: 40

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