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Closet Dom seeking advice (long) - 8/19/2008 10:55:25 AM   
Douma


Posts: 2
Joined: 8/19/2008
Status: offline 		Hello,
First time poster, anywhere on a BDSM board.  Unfamiliar with complex or non mainstream BDSM references or terminology. Be gentle, any well intended advice is welcome.

I am a straight 28 year old male, who has had dominant feelings for as long as I can remember.  In most of my relationships I have ignored these feelings and tried to supress them for the sake of my significant other, and for social and romantic acceptance.  Recently I have come across a young woman who I am very interested in who is willing to consider a romantic relationship with me.

During a friendly evening together, watching movies and listening to music, I began to play with her hair.  She was very tired and relaxed, and in less than a minute had assumed one of the classic submissive positions.  I do not know the names of the positions, nor do I wish to describe them at this time, but I believe that I recognize them when I see them.  Over the course of a half an hour she very naturally ran herself through a series of paces, assuming what I thought to be 5 distinct and individual positions.  I joked with her, each time she ended up shifting her stance, from kneeling, to prostration etc, that she was putting herself into submissive postures.

Most women at this point would have stopped, either out of embarassment, a desire to remain in control, or for fear of sending the wrong signals.  Not only did she not do this, as we were nearing the end of our time together, I commented that her last choice of sitting was almost another position, and she asked me to tell her how to change her stance to complete it.  After I told her, she complied and she seemed very calm, and happy the entire time.  I had told her previously that day, with friends, about the ways that some people try to manipulate other people into obediance, essentialy tricking them or coercing them into a Master/slave relationship.  And despite these talks, she seemed unconcerned and unafraid during our "session."

We are not dating at this time, but I would very much like to become involved with her.  She exhibits a kindness and wonder that I want to preserve and cultivate, and surround myself with.  She's aware of my budding tendancies and has let me touch her, in more than casual passing, indicating an openess and comfort with me.

There is so much information out there on the web, and I am barely staying out of debt during my divorce, that I don't have the money to invest in books, videos, or other subscriptions to help me finally understand myself and try to learn to be the person who I have been hiding for so long.  I want to be able to find an educational site that can help teach me the submissive positions better (preferably with those small medical drawings to show me), so I can discuss it with her.  I don't think she will be immediately receptive, but neither do I think she will refuse.  I believe that with honesty and gentle coaching she would be very happy in the lifestyle, preferably with me.

I would greatly appreciate any suggestions on how not to appear obsessive about the culture and lifestyle, to which I am so new.  I have little desire to inflict pain, and she is accepting of that within reason.  I want to encourage her to conmtinue to be open with me, but I don't want all the time I spend with her to seem like primers for sexual slavery.  I do not want to have to hide anymore, and my friend and I seem to connect very well in this aspect.   I want to develop a healthy Dom/Sub relationship with her, if she agrees and is comfortable, and almost grow together in our lives, entwined like two flowers.

That as much as I feel I want to discuss in this post, and I am hoping a few of you are bleeding hearts who will show me some mercy and help me find a solid foundation on how to move forward with my hopes in a safe, confidant, and healthy way. Thanks for your time, reading my terrible little novel here.

Douma
Fallen Servant of Silence


< Message edited by Douma -- 8/19/2008 10:58:17 AM >
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RE: Closet Dom seeking advice (long) - 8/19/2008 12:25:39 PM   
softpjOS


Posts: 398
Joined: 6/7/2005
Status: offline 		First, welcome to the boards
 
I'm sorry but i truly dont' understand why you can't just be open and talk to her about this.  I can understand your hesitation but truly, the best thing to do is be honest and open with her.
 
As far as sites to learn positions, i'm afraid i dont have any handy but a google search will definately give you a very long list.  Not to mention the search function on this site, which i've had my tush kicked by more then once lol, but it does work..just have to reword until you find what you're looking for. 
 
May i suggest also googling BDSM in the nearest large city to you to locate a local group/munch.  Talking to other like minded people will help You come to accepting and understanding Yourself a little better.  Who knows, Your first *date* with her could very well be going to a munch together :) 
 
It truly sounds like she is open to what you've brought up to her thus far, why not take that next step and speak openly about it?  For all you know, she's sitting back on another site posting the same thing you've just said. 
 
Good luck and again welcome to the boards
 
pj

(in reply to Douma)
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RE: Closet Dom seeking advice (long) - 8/19/2008 12:55:52 PM   
Abaddon2u


Posts: 49
Joined: 8/12/2008
Status: offline
Greetings, and welcome,

I trust you shall find what you seek. We all have different needs and desires, it is just a matter of identifying them and incorporating them in our lives. This link is from a Gorean site but does seem germane to your question. http://www.dungeontears.com/Positions.html

Regards,

Abaddon

“The journey of a thousand miles starts with but a single step” - public domain

(in reply to softpjOS)
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RE: Closet Dom seeking advice (long) - 8/19/2008 1:44:42 PM   
Douma


Posts: 2
Joined: 8/19/2008
Status: offline 		Thank you both for your responses, I appreciate your shared insight.
I really appreciate the link Abaddon2u, that will help me narrow down my searches a lot.
If anyone else has any helpful suggestions feel free to say hi.
Douma


(in reply to Abaddon2u)
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RE: Closet Dom seeking advice (long) - 8/19/2008 5:52:12 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		A classic mistake I made when I was new was to find cool things and try and drag them into my relationship rather than realizing they actually needed to work for me.  So you end up with all this artificial clutter in your relationship rather than the things you really need at your core for both of you to feel content.

"slave positions" are not some universal standard that "real" bdsm people use.  I have few, others have many, some have none.  The only ones doing it "wrong" are the ones who aren't happy.  Trust me, happy beats the alternative any day.

(in reply to Douma)
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RE: Closet Dom seeking advice (long) - 8/19/2008 5:57:02 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

The only ones doing it "wrong" are the ones who aren't happy.


This should be repeated in every thread.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to SimplyMichael)
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RE: Closet Dom seeking advice (long) - 8/19/2008 5:58:43 PM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		I agree with SM - unless her being in "positions" floats your boat, forget about them, and have a conversation with her about your feelings and wants. If she is truly interested in the lifestyle and you, then you can discuss with her rituals and behaviours. You really need to know if this is something she is interested in exploring with you before you get too carried away with the ephemera of bdsm.

good luck

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
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RE: Closet Dom seeking advice (long) - 8/19/2008 6:11:09 PM   
PsyVamp


Posts: 1026
Joined: 10/30/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

The only ones doing it "wrong" are the ones who aren't happy.


This should be repeated in every thread.


I'll second that

To the OP... there are so many sites out there, just do a google search.. I suggest that you look inside yourself and find who YOU are, what YOU like, and then incorporate that into your relationship.  If I had listened to everyone else, I would have been a rather unhappy kinky top instead of allowing myself the freedom to grow into M/s and walk a Master's path.  Don't let anyone bully you into thinking that their way is the only right way, there are as many variations as there are personalities!

Lady Jag

_____________________________

Don't take life too seriously; No one gets out alive. .
Could a blue screen of death constitute being defenestrated?
~Owner of wolf~ (one of them, anyway)

(in reply to NuevaVida)
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RE: Closet Dom seeking advice (long) - 8/19/2008 7:59:00 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline 		It's common when your new, confused, and not entirely sure of where your place is in all this "stuff" to reference external sources. While external information is important and beneficial, it, unfortanely, can prove to be destructive if you are looking for "The Answer" in the external sources. People sometimes try and fill a mold created by theories, "How-To-D/S" books, and definitions that is who they think they "should be" rather than "who they are".

I suggest directing your appeal to information internally rather than externally and ask yourself some questions like...

What makes me a dominant?
What do I want in a submissive?
What do I desire?

Using this information, then you can appeal to external sources to find things you might enjoy doing or might enjoy incorporating into your own private relationship, whether it's a behavior such as wearing a collar or using a paddle for some fun.

All the external information you are mostly going to find will have to do with kink, protocols, rituals, and a whole assortment of other behaviors you can learn to express your dominance. Having a healthy "D/S" relationship just comes down to genuinely caring for your partner, being a decent guy, and not being an immature megolmaniac.

Most of the stuff that has caused problems in my relationships is exact same personal issues and baggage that would cause problems in a vanilla relationship. I cannot think of one instance where I had difficulties that were spawned from missing an important new article by Jack Rinella.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to Douma)
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RE: Closet Dom seeking advice (long) - 8/19/2008 9:14:16 PM   
yourMissTress


Posts: 1665
Joined: 6/14/2005
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		Welcome to the boards and congratulations on stepping out and exploring something new!
 
You have already been given some excellent advice. 
 
There are tons and tons of websites to read about BDSM.  Just grab your google search bar and start typing.  Take most of what you read with a grain of salt.  There is no be all end all, there are no official rules or protocols, there is really no guide to kink.  There is no one person, group or committee that decides what is right and wrong.   It's all about what you like, what turns you on, and how far you are willing or want to explore. 
 
Experiment carefully, with all of the reasonable safety measures you can think of, and don't be discouraged when you make a mistake, find something that doesn't work for you, or your partner.  One of the wonderful things about kink is there's so much of it out there! 
 
There are do it yourself sites to learn how to improvise what you already have for toys and implements, so you don't have to spend much money to get started on your toy bag.  There are local groups almost everywhere that you can join to learn from others.  And as you've found this forum, you have already started communicating with others and asking questions, it's a grand beginning for you.
 
Keep asking questions.  And don't be afraid to admit to any play partner you may find just what your level of experience is.  They will usually be more open minded and have more respect for you if you are honest and open.
 
Good luck!

_____________________________

Tress


"If you have to tell people that you are a lady, you are not." My Grandmother


(in reply to Douma)
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RE: Closet Dom seeking advice (long) - 8/20/2008 5:36:38 AM   
SingleRarity


Posts: 320
Joined: 9/13/2006
Status: offline 		I can't offer a link to the kind of site you are looking for, but I can offer up examples from our relationship that relate to what you are looking for. On positions, I didn't have a strong desire to have my slave/partner learn a series of positions that didn't have meaning for me personally, so I decided we would create our own if and when the need for them came up based on our own interactions, and we did; right away away we established a greeting position, a ready for collaring position, a reflection/meditation position and a ready for sex position, each with their own name that she responds to immediately. We continue to add to those positions as needed or wanted. But that's just the way it works for us. For you, you may prefer to start with a clear set of positions that you want your partner to learn and use, which is just as valid.

On not appearing to be obsessive, I think we handled that by making sure we nurtured the elements in our relationship that we both felt were important to any relationship. The BDSM elements were extremely important to us too, but we made an effort to make sure we were also connecting on all the other levels that we knew, based on our own life experiences, were important, like strong and open communication, shared interests, shared values, similar senses of humor, compatible long term gaols, etc. Building a relationship that included all of those elements was important to us, so we made just as much effort to make sure that those sides were taken care of along side our M/s and D/s sides.

Hope that helps.

-A

(in reply to Douma)
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RE: Closet Dom seeking advice (long) - 8/20/2008 6:00:15 AM   
MaamJay


Posts: 2101
Joined: 9/2/2005
Status: offline 		Excellent advice so far! The relationship is what the people involved want it to be. What you incorporate into it depends on what floats your boat ... and to an extent, what floats hers too. Some general areas to think about:
* Protocols eg do You prefer her eyes to meet yours or to be downcast? Neither is the one true way, it's what YOU like that matters. What does she call You (a) in private and (b) in public? Does she walk (a) in front (b) by Your side (c) behind? There are good arguments to be made for each one of these being "submissive". What do You want? Is the bathroom door to be left open or is she allowed to close it? Note that using specific positions fit somewhere between protocols and rituals usually.
* Rituals eg a greeting ritual, an asking for permission to speak (or speak freely) ritual, precursor to sex ritual etc.
* Permissions eg do You want her to ask permission to eat, drink, toilet, use the furniture, masturbate, cum?
* Control/micromanagement eg do You want to select her clothes every day or will You give her parameters eg a skirt, no panties unless you ask permission to wear long pants, but You aren't going to fuss over which skirt and top she wears. Careful here ... too much micromanagement gets very wearing for the Dom!
* Requirements and tasks eg do You want her to write a daily or weekly journal recording her submissive journey? Or do You want a daily log of activities? Will You read it or is it for her eyes only? What other chores or tasks will she complete for You?

This is by no means an exhaustive list, neither is it indicating that You should rush into all of this with Your intended! It's here for You to start thinking ahead so that You can decide what You would like to try out. However, don't be afraid to change if something's not working for You. I started with the eyes down protocol and rapidly realised I HATED not being able to read what was going on in their eyes. I changed that one quickly! I second what Michael said about reading cool things and trying to drag them in, I am not intending here to encourage You to do that ... simply to present You with a few things to start thinking about.

Good luck!
Maam Jay aka violet[A]

_____________________________

Life is a song ... and I love singing it! (By me!)

(in reply to SingleRarity)
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RE: Closet Dom seeking advice (long) - 8/20/2008 6:18:29 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		The thig that bothered me was your stating that you've suppressed your Dominant urges for the sakes of the women you've been with.

There's NOTHING wrong with being a Dom if it's a consensual thing.

I can't tell you whether your prospective subbie truly is a sub.  I'd suggest opening up to her and telling her that you've had Dom feelings for years and never acted on them.  It's something you'd like to explore with her.  Give yourself an out in case it turns out it isn't for you, or her.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to MaamJay)
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RE: Closet Dom seeking advice (long) - 8/22/2008 8:12:51 AM   
DMFParadox


Posts: 1405
Joined: 9/11/2007
Status: offline 		There are 'classic' submissive positions?  News to me.

There's a submissive mindset that I can identify readily, through a few pointed questions or through conversation.

(Easy one: when you think about sex, do you do things for your fantasy man or does he do them for you? Most women will say 'both', but then follow up with 'like what?' and you'll get clear signs if she leans top or bottom, because now she's thinking about it... and the answer that she thinks you want to hear is too murky and laden to consider, so she'll usually be straight up.)

Mind, I'm talking about 'nilla girls here.   Keep your tone of voice light as if you're asking about the weather.  There are other questions you can ask that are more subtle, but I've found this one to work pretty well.  I don't have a good one to ask male sub/dom prospects, sorry.

It's actually less easy to tell submissiveness through actions at first... sometimes a girl will jump to please you, as a way to gain control.  To get leverage.  So if you allow her too much leeway in serving you off the bat, you'll find her trying to bargain with you based on it.  Ask, get into her head, create scenarios for her and see which one she bites at.  But body language like you're describing can be a damned good hint.

Don't let it shake you if you see it... be a Dom and assume, and if you're wrong you can pass it off as a testosterone moment.  Most women expect men to behave like men at first, regardless of kink.  It's only later that the differences shine through.

_____________________________

bloody hell, get me some aspirin and a whiskey straight

"The role of gender in society is the most complicated thing I’ve ever spent a lot of time learning about, and I’ve spent a lot of time learning about quantum mechanics." - Randall Munroe

(in reply to DarkSteven)
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RE: Closet Dom seeking advice (long) - 8/22/2008 8:19:18 AM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		Being sneaky and offhanded about this is manipulative.

It will backfire on you, likely as not.

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to Douma)
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RE: Closet Dom seeking advice (long) - 8/22/2008 3:13:27 PM   
ADom442


Posts: 34
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		Douma,

If you and she decide to explore this, the most important thing I would say to you is BE REAL.

You talked about positions for example. Do you care about what some book says is position 5-A.1? If you think she looks appealing to you in a certain position and that it expresses the nature of your new developing relationship, then hey - you've found YOUR position number one. That's assuming that you (and she) enjoy her assuming a certain position for you.

Another thing I'd say to both of you if you're interested in exploring is don't get lost in the fantasy and in trying to live the fantasy. How she dresses for example. Only direct her at the level you care about. If you're not careful, this whole "dominant" thing can get to be a pain - Imagine yourself yelling out of frustration "I don't CARE which sock you put on first, just get ready so we can go!!"

One last point that has served me well: I consider a developing D/s relationship to be a lot like a piece of rope. I can tug on the rope, I can use the rope to lead my partner, but it never works to try to push on the rope. If you find yourself "pushing" instead of leading, she'll begin to build resentment even if she does give in to your demands.

ADom



_____________________________

It is the business of the very few to be independent; it is a privilege of the strong. And whoever attempts it ... proves that he is probably not only strong, but also daring beyond measure.
- Nietzsche

(in reply to Douma)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Closet Dom seeking advice (long) - 8/22/2008 3:56:37 PM   
batshalom


Posts: 1990
Joined: 9/17/2007
Status: offline 		Lovin' that post, 442.

(in reply to ADom442)
Profile   Post #: 17
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