RE: emotional safewording

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veronicaofML -> RE: emotional safewording (11/22/2005 2:03:42 PM)
To break or be broken in order to attempt to grow, that is another thing altogether. ---------- now THERE something i hear a lot of hype on but i am TOLD.....THAT is wrong TOO!

ICGsteve -> RE: emotional safewording (11/22/2005 2:58:48 PM)
"Steve, what does "love" have to do with a possession (please be advised that most of these folks have already disavowed any association of love in a Master/slave relationship)? " I can't say about people here or in the lifestyle in general, but I can say that I believe that Sade would not break for the sake of breaking. It was for him about ministering to the dark needs, acknowledging what was there, exploring and learning from it. I can say that my reading of the history of BDSM leads me to believe that the whip was usually used in part as a means to inspire devotion which is to say to build the relationship. The poles of dominance and submission are established either as a agreed method to build energy in the relationship or because one or both of the couple needs to play the role of dominant or submissive for some reason. Power exchanges in relationships where one or both of the people are not invested in the relationship is something that I admitt to not understanding. Is it for kicks? Personal growth? A stroking of the Ego? The equivalent of an extreme sport? I am taking possession of my wife because she needs me to do so and because after swearing off my dominant side for long time in a spiritual quest I am now desiring to explore it. We do this for each other and for "the relationship". For us it is all about love.

KnightofMists -> RE: emotional safewording (11/22/2005 3:05:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: misskittyslave Most of U/us play or have safe words for during a scene, when the physical pain is going to cause damage when it gets too much and becomes dangerous. i wonder how many live with an emotional safe word, when things are getting so far out of control for the submissive emotionally he/she can safe word and stop what is going on breath and talk about what is troubling them without fear of repercussion? i wonder do M/s couples who normally have good communication skills and a decent relationship for the most part ever think that sometimes there might be something happening that a submissive is dealing with internally that is damaging them emotionally but they are with holding it in because they do not know that emotions are just as great of a risk to damaging them and causing harm as the physical aspects of a bdsm relationship? for instance verbal humiliation what if it goes so far that a sub is starting to believe that what the dominant says is not just for in scene but how they really feel about them, or if a dominant withholds affection from a submissive because they are not complying to an order because they have a mental roadblock they are trying to work through or an insecurity. emotinos are sometimes stronger and more painful than any physical aspect of bdsm i feel that sometimes a submissive might need to call their safe word to stop and have the ability to talk about it without fear of repercussion and i feel that no matter how bothersome it is to the dominant it is Their responsability to actually listen and help get to the root of the emotinoal difficulty enabling the submissive to continue serving Them in a healthy manner. any thoughts on this? In the past I have used safe words. I had three specific words to communicate specific meaning and actions. "Pepper" – one… Stop the Play… "Salt" – the physical sensation is too much, need to slow down or easy up. "Butter" – the mental thoughts or emotional feelings are negative and be positively grounded to continue play. Now as I said, I used these in the past. Currently with the three bottoms I play with... There are no safe words used. Possibly with other bottoms that I may play with in the future, I would use them again. I generally prefer a much more constant, open and free flow of communication during my play. I will often ask and watch for signs that the bottom is prepared to continue. I not only look for verbal communication, but hand signals and body language in general is an important tool in deciding if the bottom is in the right state of mind for continuing play. Yes experience with a specific bottom is a great advantage in knowing when the bottom can go further or not. It even is an advantage when playing with others. But, I personally approach each and every play as a new situation. There is no telling where the bottom’s mind and body will take them in the course of play, there is no telling what spontaneous actions I will take in the play and what kind of reactions it will cause. If experience as taught me one thing… it is play can’t be predicted!, Even when the play partner is a life long relationship. Not using safe words have nothing to do with the type of relationship I have with my bottom. It is all about having uninhibited freestyle of play… a play that the bottom feels uninhibited to express them self in any way that pops into their heads. I see play as riding that wave of uninhibited energy. By using various techniques within play… I harness this energy from the bottom by fostering the expressions that I enjoy by taking actions that will bring them about. I will also avoid the actions that cause me to lose control of this energy or inhibit it’s grow and power. I find safe words are an inhibiting factor for the bottom…. The bottom has to assess themselves and what is happening, this mental activity actually inhibits their ability to be freely uninhibited in expression and release of the energy they have within. I do not wish the bottom to consider or thing or even feel... I just want them to do and flow freely. The thinking and feeling is after the play. However, to reach this type of play that I most enjoy… a great deal of trust must be gained. A big factor that builds this trust is effective open honest communication between my self and the bottom. "Before", "During" and "After" play! I am not so sure it is necessarily a responsibility of the Dominant to listen etc…. But I do know that that the consequences of having effective open honest communication can have incredible positive benefits in an array of areas for those involved. All types of issues do arise from play and as one gains the trust and confidence to discuss these issues it will and can have a tremendous positive influence on future play. It is a cycle that feeds on each other.... "Effective Communication" feeds to "Great play" which in turn leads to ideals/issues to discuss using "effective Communication" Get the cycle going(not easy).... and keep it going(which is just a hard)

Wildfleurs -> RE: emotional safewording (11/22/2005 3:14:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rover Steve, what does "love" have to do with a possession (please be advised that most of these folks have already disavowed any association of love in a Master/slave relationship)? People enjoy breaking their possessions all the time. That's why things like demolition derby's are so popular. Get a few miles on the ole slave... errr... car, and you don't take quite the same care of it. In fact, you might look for opportunities to "abuse" it (can you really "abuse" something that has no rights or limits?). We're talking about possessions without rights or limits. We're talking about objects that exist exclusively for our pleasure and at our whim. Why not do it just to see if it can be done? Sure, it's extreme. But that's the fun, don't you see... to see just HOW extreme it can be!! What, you think a Sadistic Master to a lowly slave is going to give a rat's patoot what the consequences are? If this one breaks and is of no further use to me, there's always another one just around the corner seeking to become a REAL slave without rights or limits. They're a dime a dozen. John Thats certainly your right to feel that way, have that philosophy, and implement that philosophy should you be fortunate enough to 1) get a slave 2) keep them for any appreciable time. I can only say that for my owner, my mental health and sanity is important. C~

veronicaofML -> RE: emotional safewording (11/22/2005 3:22:57 PM)
I can only say that for my owner, my mental health and sanity is important. C~ -------- okay. i'm with you on that much. but let ASK........... what about" how do you feel?" in MY world.......how i "feel" is NOT relevant. i don't care if i have a fever of 105..i am STILL going to do what i have to do ....irregardless. feelings are not relevant to MY service... i give 150%------- the first 100% of normal..and the other 50% when ya just ain't in the mood but ya do it anyway. at least that is what MY D.I. in boot taught me.! i told him,,,hey my heart aint in this..and he said boy...i dont want your heart...just your back..now get back to digging son.

Rover -> RE: emotional safewording (11/22/2005 3:45:00 PM)
Steve, this is meant as no disrespect. But you have (evidently) not read much of de Sade's life. He was a pedophile who kidnapped, raped and abused. He gave no thought to whether his victims consented or not (though in truth, some did consent... many did not). John

Rover -> RE: emotional safewording (11/22/2005 3:51:36 PM)
Wildfleurs, you possibly did not read the entire thread to notice that my tongue was firmly planted in cheek. In fact, I'd be willing to bet dollars to donuts that several folks engaged in the ongoing debate also wanted to take issue with me, but to do so would invalidate their argument (ie: how can you limit any owner's use of their property in whatever manner they see fit?). Though sadly, in the intervening hour or two, I received seven unsolicited emails from women who desired to be my personal "no limits, no rights slaves" of the type mentioned in my post. John

veronicaofML -> RE: emotional safewording (11/22/2005 4:48:23 PM)
Rover i wonder if YOU are THEE Rover i knew of on msn chat some time ago....that was on a lot of msn msg boards? and IF Ya are????? i KNOW who Ya are..... if not it's cool too. but "I" had no issue with Your posts. take care

ICGsteve -> RE: emotional safewording (11/22/2005 5:00:03 PM)
John, the point is did Sade act to tear down, to distroy, or did he act to grow and expand (understanding)? I agree that he was abusive but is this in anyway redeamed by his efforts to pass along what he learned? I come from SAde from he direction of Thomas Moore in "dark Eros" and while I understand that Moore has over the last ten years back pedalled from his original thinking on this matter I think that it does illuminate Sade as well as our own motivations to engage in consentual slavery, pain, bondage and the like. I get something out of moving towards owning my wife, and she gets something out of being owned. It is very bizare, it is difficult to get ones mind around, yet there it is. For me Sade helps.

Rover -> RE: emotional safewording (11/22/2005 5:07:02 PM)
veronica, I believe that would be yours truly. John

Rover -> RE: emotional safewording (11/22/2005 5:20:40 PM)
Steve, de Sade didn't do anything to grow and expand anyone's understanding any more than did John Wayne Gacey. His only connection to "the lifestyle" is through Richard von Krafft-Ebing's 1886 publication of "Psychopathia Sexualis" in which he derived the term "sadist" from Donatien Alphonse Francois de Sade's name (some sources attribute this to earlier works), along with the term "masochism" from Leopold von Sacher-Masoch (Austrian author... "Venus In Furs" amongst other works). He was, as mentioned earlier, your run of the mill pedophile, kidnapper, rapist and sadist. He took selfish pleasure whenever and wherever he could find it, consensual or not. Even his literature was self serving, both as a poke in the eye of the political and religious establishment, and to provide the pretense of a philosophy to justify (to a largely illiterate public already disdainful of said establishment) his continued predation. I am not aware of any redeeming qualities he may have had (not that he didn't have any, I'm just not aware of them). John

RiotGirl -> RE: emotional safewording (11/22/2005 5:53:37 PM)
In response to the OP i think there SHOULD be emotional or conversational safewords. Sometimes, with us subs and slaves, certian things pop up that bother us and we dont speak about them. They tend to fester and cause problems. (grins i was just giving this lecture today about holding things in and letting them fester) We need away to speak about whats bothering us with out worry about the reactions from our Dominants. Like with the post about the lady finding her Dom had a sub profile. That could be a good chance to say "safeword" There are alot of little things that could come up and sometimes a sub/slave just doesnt know how to say whats bothering them. It could be a good intro. Personally i dont think it has to be an in the moment thing, but could also be "Hey, i need to seriously talk about this" Granted though, i dont have any safewords and i use other ways to speak to Master when something is bothering me.. but then we arent speaking about ways to speak to our Masters.

veronicaofML -> RE: emotional safewording (11/22/2005 6:04:24 PM)
ROVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You are like, a cool dude to me. i always luv'd Your storylines and posts.......don't always agree.....but You never shade it into b.s. either. i know it is difficult for 2 males to interact on a heated topic and You and i have argued,....but i always respected You. take care

Englishrogue -> RE: emotional safewording (11/22/2005 6:10:35 PM)
I've had a safeword used outside a scene before. Was the "go slow" safeword I use. It did what it needed to do, and brought me back from where I was headed. I've told all subsequent partners they can use their safewords at any time, provided they do not use them lightly. Its a great communication tool provided the partners try and understand that safewords are there to snap us back, and not something that indicates a failure. In an ideal world, we'd be perfectly in tune with our partners, and be able to communicate on every level at every time. It's not ideal. so... personally, I'll take every edge I can. Rogue

kyraofMists -> RE: emotional safewording (11/22/2005 6:27:46 PM)
I am not sure if you are asking about having emotional safe words for play or outside of play. In my play with my Lord, we do not use safe words. The communication is constant and ongoing throughout the entire play so there is no need to have a word that says, I need to stop or take a break. Outside of play, there are times that I need to vent. I have emotions or thoughts that I wish to express without concern for how I express them. When I wish to do this, I simply ask if I can vent. If he is in the frame of mind to listen to a vent without judgment or censor, then he will grant it. Otherwise, I will be allowed to vent at a time when he is more open to it. I can also send an email with the subject line of "my vent" and then he can read it at his leisure. I use this more often, because usually when I wish to vent, I want to do it now! So I do it in email and the anger, frustration or hurt is released immediately and my Lord can read it when he wants. This has worked very well for me and my Lord. It inspires conversation and we learn about each other and grow in our relationship and it is all done in the structure of an M/s relationship. Knight's kyra

veronicaofML -> RE: emotional safewording (11/22/2005 6:32:43 PM)
Its a great communication tool provided the partners try and understand that safewords are there to snap us back, and not something that indicates a failure. ------------- and THAT i believe where a lot of folks get...feeling like a failure. i did for a long time........when i got my butt spanked...and didn't want it........coz it don't change the issue at hand.

Rover -> RE: emotional safewording (11/22/2005 6:46:27 PM)
Debate is instructional and informative (at the very least, to those reading along who have yet to make up their own minds on a topic). I find it essential to engage in debate, in order to determine whether what I think and believe is logical, factual and sensical. If it's not, I will concede the point and revise my beliefs. My purpose has never been to have everyone agree with me. It is, and remains, to get people to think. John

OsideGirl -> RE: emotional safewording (11/22/2005 7:17:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JohnWarren quote: ORIGINAL: thetammyjo Personally I think that emotional and pyschological safewords are more important than physical ones. I can see if someone is bleeding, I can't see if they are having a flashback. Problem is that if something triggers an emotional limit, I'm not sure how well that trigger person would be at using a safeword. They could be emotionally too far out of it to do so. Libby and I have observed that psychological crises come on more quickly than physical ones. It's almost as if the buildup is logarithmic rather than arithmetical. For that reason, we tell our play partners who might be effected by phychological issues to call safeword early and not try to "tough" it out Absolutely. A panic attack is swift, furious and most times without warning. Our safewords are for any condition that is overwhelming whether physical or emotional.

sweetpettjenny -> RE: emotional safewording (11/23/2005 3:24:22 AM)
I myself feel that i can handle most phsical pain sent my way as i am masochistic...But i wonder sometimes if id be hurt with certain Dominants who loveee verbal humiliation to the point of degrading. It might be something that can scar the emotions.

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