needs on top and bottom (Full Version)

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nhite -> needs on top and bottom (8/20/2008 7:41:20 AM)

this was sparked a bit by another thread in which the dom takes his bj and goes home -- as well as by a local conversation i had with a friend who interestingly was reporting such an experience herself

so i wonder...    where is 'the line' or how do you set 'the line' for a dynamic where one person will serve another yet doesnt necessarily give up their right to communicate / ask for what satisfies them

being varied creatures i know every person and every situation is going to be different

but i did start to wonder - i do want to serve a man; i do want to be in his control and pleasure him (physically or otherwise ie thru obedience);  yet i have needs as well.   it could be said that by offering to serve i'm giving up the right to my needs but if my needs wont be met, then why bother serving?   at that point its just work without a paycheck ;)







AdamTaylor -> RE: needs on top and bottom (8/20/2008 7:44:27 AM)

Well, for some, simply the act of serving (sexually or otherwise) is enough. And it's all they seek.

For others, they want their own physical and sexual needs met. And that's fine too.

This is why you don't just jump in with the first Dom/Master you come across.
It's just like any other relationship... you take the time to get to know the person... and find out if you're really compatible.

There will be those out there who will dominate you as you desire, and take care of your other needs as well.




Owner4SexSlave -> RE: needs on top and bottom (8/20/2008 7:49:38 AM)

Welcome to the jungle baby!  Here's something really basic you should understand, variety is the spice of life.

There are many different kinds of people in the lifestyle, with different points of views.

It's best to pair up with a Dom that has a similar mindset and view as yourself, this is my #1 piece of advice for any submissive.   You want to find somebody you can become a mirror reflection of.




leadership527 -> RE: needs on top and bottom (8/20/2008 7:56:07 AM)

The obvious answer about where to draw the line is... wherever that line works best for the relationship in question.

There are so many different objectives, goals, and styles for relationships.  For me, anyway, I am only interested in a life-long relationship with my wife.  Within the context of that lifelong committed relationship, my specific goal is to maiximze happiness and fulfillment across the two of us.  That implies a pretty sharp focus from me in regards all her needs... only a fraction of which are met by serving me.  Someone else on these boards wrote this but I thought it was a great, succinct way to express my priority list...

needs / Needs / Wants / wants




nhite -> RE: needs on top and bottom (8/20/2008 8:29:25 AM)

i will say that i have found for myself -- still VERY much struggling to understand my inner submissive -- that there are times its very very difficult to distinguish if what makes me happy is being with a person specifically and their particular style, their needs etc; or that i am satisfied because my need to serve has an outlet and filling that need makes me feel happy










NeedingMore220 -> RE: needs on top and bottom (8/20/2008 9:11:06 AM)

I think it's my goal, nhite, to have a mix of both ... to be happy and satisfied in in my Dom's desires as well as feeling personally satisfied in having an outlet to express my submission.  For me, they go hand-in-hand.  




AdamTaylor -> RE: needs on top and bottom (8/20/2008 9:16:45 AM)

needs / Needs / Wants / wants

I like that. It's so true.

So many people seem to forget that this lifestyle is still a relationship like any other.
If you love the person you're with, you want to make sure their needs are met and that they are happy.




CalifChick -> RE: needs on top and bottom (8/20/2008 9:23:35 AM)

The n/N/W/w thing was something I learned in a class from BDSM-Mentors, and it was more about the order of what takes place than about what makes you happy in the long term.  For instance, if the submissive is tired or ill and does not rest (need) then she cannot take care of her dominant in the manner he would like (neither his Needs nor his Wants).  That's why her needs come first.

To find what fulfills you, you first have to figure out what will make you happy and satisfied.  Sure I get off on pleasing others, but there are certain things that I could never give up and be happy.  I couldn't give up sex, I couldn't give up orgasms, I couldn't give up receiving oral sex, I couldn't give up kissing, etc.  Giving up those things, even if it made someone else happy, would make me very unhappy and empty and unfulfilled in the long term. So for me, merely pleasing someone else is not enough.


Cali
(I feel so unsubbly now)





MusicalBoredom -> RE: needs on top and bottom (8/20/2008 9:55:00 AM)

As several have pointed out, a lot of these questions are relevant to what works for each of us as individuals.  It's important to know those answers for both people in a relationship and "likemindedness" is very important.

For me, when I enter a relationship with a submissive partner, I take on a responsibility in also taking care of her.  That includes finding out her needs and making sure they are met -- not just by me but also by her.  In my mind it's a two way "contract" with each party having responsibilities and benefits.

Oh and cali, I would never deprive you of sex or orgasms or oral.  I might encourage you to hold off on that orgasm until the real peak is hit, but never deprive.




Lockit -> RE: needs on top and bottom (8/20/2008 10:19:14 AM)

If one is going to rush into play without a foundation, then they are taking the risk of being used for service rather than be an important someone to the one being served.  It is pretty simple.  If you just want to serve... just about anyone... I doubt you will be upset when you are used for service.  If you want a relationship and whatever that means to you, then that should be established before you play.  If you play before things are established, then you have to be able to handle what happens.  The line... the difference... is found within you, not the other person.  You decide what you want and then set out to make that happen.  Blaming a guy because all he wants is a blow job or a woman because all she wants is her house cleaned or to be pleased is placing blame on the wrong person if you allowed that person to get it.  If you want more than to service someone's needs, expect more and don't hand it out so readily.




nhite -> RE: needs on top and bottom (8/20/2008 2:00:45 PM)

people are doormats only to the extent they allow it - i fully believe in it

i'm just tryign to say sometimes the 'why' gets a little muddled up --- is aunt erma's broccoli casserole REALLY good?   or is it a matter of its good because you haven't eaten in tweleve hours




CalifChick -> RE: needs on top and bottom (8/20/2008 2:51:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MusicalBoredom
Oh and cali, I would never deprive you of sex or orgasms or oral.  I might encourage you to hold off on that orgasm until the real peak is hit, but never deprive.


[sm=writing.gif]  I'll have a contract ready before midnight tonight.


Cali




MusicalBoredom -> RE: needs on top and bottom (8/20/2008 3:05:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

quote:

ORIGINAL: MusicalBoredom
Oh and cali, I would never deprive you of sex or orgasms or oral.  I might encourage you to hold off on that orgasm until the real peak is hit, but never deprive.


[sm=writing.gif]  I'll have a contract ready before midnight tonight.


Cali



It better include the terms for a very red behind as well[sm=spanking.gif]




CalifChick -> RE: needs on top and bottom (8/20/2008 3:10:16 PM)

I wouldn't have it any other way.

See there?  An example of identifying what my NEEDS are.  LOL.


Cali




CallaFirestormBW -> RE: needs on top and bottom (8/20/2008 3:13:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: nhite

but i did start to wonder - i do want to serve a man; i do want to be in his control and pleasure him (physically or otherwise ie thru obedience);  yet i have needs as well.   it could be said that by offering to serve i'm giving up the right to my needs but if my needs wont be met, then why bother serving?   at that point its just work without a paycheck ;)



This question can't be answered "generally" -- what you need to do is recognize your own needs and your expectations for the kind of relationship that is going to be fulfilling for you, and then enter into discussions with people with that in mind. If you don't want to be in a relationship with someone who doesn't recognize your needs, then make sure you are clear about what your needs -are-, and listen carefully when the individual you are negotiating with addresses how or if those needs will be met.

Most of the problems that come about in this area come because the individuals involved did not address or were not clear enough about their needs or expectations (and for some, because they made the choice to sublimate their needs to their desire to have "someone... anyone" in their lives.) Patience, self-awareness, clarity, communication and, again, -patience- will alleviate many of these mis-match situations.

Also -- for those who are looking to yield up everything... this may go against everything you've ever been told, but it is my recommendation (on both sides) for each person to hold an unspecified "no-fault" period -- a reasonable period of time where the means by which to extricate oneself from an unhealthy, unsafe situation are left in place. Honestly, if I had my preferences, I'd suggest that everyone on both sides of the collar hold on to their 'escape hatch' for a full year -- it takes some people that long to show their true colors. Most people can hold on to their masks for a few hours or a few days. Quite a few can hold on for weeks or a couple of months. Some can hold on for a couple of months to half a year, and there are a few who can continue to hide behind a mask for as much as a year -- especially for those individuals who are thinking about getting involved in a relationship where they would abdicate -every- aspect of their lives, from finances to transportation, and where they would literally put themselves completely at the other person's mercy, I think that this is a huge leap of faith. I've been known to make leaps of faith like that myself. I think I've been lucky, in that most of them have proven to be amazingly beneficial -- but not all of them are, so if a person is skittish and has any doubts about the wisdom of the decision, go ahead and leave an 'escape hatch' for a while, so that if you need to get out, you can. You can abandon the escape-plan at any time, once you're sure of what you're doing. This advice isn't just for submissive individuals, either -- it also applies to dominant individuals who take on a "full immersion" servant... set their offerings aside for a while... make sure that this person is going to fit into your life, and truly be a worthwhile servant before you integrate hir existence into your own completely... if you need to get out or get hir out... everything is still intact and the separation process is much more clean and less full of drama.

Some people may disagree with me about the wisdom of this piece of advice, but as a pastoral care counselor, I've seen it come in handy a few times and found the lack both risky and problematic several more. (BTW, I make the same recommendation for marriage and same-gender commitment where there hasn't been a long 'courting' period and ample opportunity to really get to know the other person intimately for at least a year).

CFB






LuckyAlbatross -> RE: needs on top and bottom (8/20/2008 4:09:09 PM)

You've discovered the great secret- we're all doing exactly what we want to do.  With the concept of consensuality, we're all in relationships that fulfill who we are and what we want.  If you aren't, well that's your choice too.

Thus, the importance of really knowing what you're getting into before you get into it. 




DesFIP -> RE: needs on top and bottom (8/20/2008 6:04:10 PM)

These are the kinds of things that ought to be discussed before you get naked and sweaty. Honestly, the rule of thumb I subscribe to is that if you can't talk about it, then you shouldn't be doing it.

As far as where is the line that allows you to be unsatisfied, needs unmet, resentment growing? Those things shouldn't exist in a good relationship. You should compromise on the less than essential stuff, not on basic things like sex.




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