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Vested interest in your country - 8/20/2008 6:00:50 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		When watching Lions for Lambs, the students had the idea that to have certain rights (to vote) that you needed to either do 2 years in the military or 2 years working in inner city youth programs. I would ass a third option, of 2 years Peace Corp. Once completed the person would gain the right to vote for President. Yes I know there would first need to be an amendment to make a popular vote an actual right, and yes I know about the Heinlen idea in his sci fi books.

Wondering what other people thoughts are. This would engage us and actually make it so we are providing something to our Nation.

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RE: Vested interest in your country - 8/20/2008 6:14:39 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		Hell even if it wasn't attached to the right to vote, I am all in favor of 2 years of public service being required, hell attach a nice grant to it to help pay for college or trade school or even an environmentally friendly vehicle.

Just my thoughts,
Thadius

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RE: Vested interest in your country - 8/20/2008 6:27:22 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		An excellent idea in theory......... in practice, most public servants either serve themselves, or are so bogged down in minutia, they find it impossible to get anything done. And then, what about all the special folks who just can't serve?  The  outrage over discrimination would be deafening. That would lead to a new set of laws to comfort the aggrieved parties..... and on and on and on........

Jeff

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RE: Vested interest in your country - 8/20/2008 6:52:43 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

When watching Lions for Lambs, the students had the idea that to have certain rights (to vote) that you needed to either do 2 years in the military or 2 years working in inner city youth programs. I would ass a third option, of 2 years Peace Corp. Once completed the person would gain the right to vote for President. Yes I know there would first need to be an amendment to make a popular vote an actual right, and yes I know about the Heinlen idea in his sci fi books.

Wondering what other people thoughts are. This would engage us and actually make it so we are providing something to our Nation.

I am not persuaded it would make much difference.  Are there any surveys which show that vets vote more regularly or are more involved in political dialogue than non-veterans?

Since you mentioned Heinlein, I should add that in Starship Troopers even Heinlein dismissed the notion that veterans were better qualified to use the franchise.  In that story, the rationale for the requirement:  "It works!"


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RE: Vested interest in your country - 8/20/2008 8:07:52 PM   
MmeGigs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112
I am not persuaded it would make much difference.  Are there any surveys which show that vets vote more regularly or are more involved in political dialogue than non-veterans?


These aren't the only measures of good citizenship.  I wouldn't put "involved in political dialogue" on the short list.  Too many folks who are "involved in political dialogue" don't seem to be interested in dialogue at all.  Dialogue involves not only stating your own opinion but listening to other points of view.  There are a lot of folks who are interested in talking, not too many who are interested in listening.

I think that 2 years of mandatory service or service in exchange for college education is a wonderful idea.  It's a rite of passage, a tangible expression of your membership in a society.  You're responsible to something larger than yourself, and the society has responsibilities to you.  It would be a broadening experience that could not help but to make most folks better citizens and better people.

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RE: Vested interest in your country - 8/20/2008 9:25:30 PM   
caitlyn


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Status: offline 		I would be satisfied if voters could answer a few simple questions about the person they were voting for.

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RE: Vested interest in your country - 8/20/2008 9:43:40 PM   
kinkbound


Posts: 387
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Status: offline 		How about a 2-year program that teaches the young ones how to get the federal government out of our lives, instead of more deeply into our lives?  

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RE: Vested interest in your country - 8/20/2008 10:21:18 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
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From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

When watching Lions for Lambs, the students had the idea that to have certain rights (to vote) that you needed to either do 2 years in the military or 2 years working in inner city youth programs. I would ass a third option, of 2 years Peace Corp. Once completed the person would gain the right to vote for President. Yes I know there would first need to be an amendment to make a popular vote an actual right, and yes I know about the Heinlen idea in his sci fi books.

Wondering what other people thoughts are. This would engage us and actually make it so we are providing something to our Nation.


Wasn't there a little thing called the American Revolution which answered this already? Taxation without representation or are you suggesting that along with being disenfranchised, we get to wipe out paying taxes?

Since I have both the right and the ability to vote, I'd vote no especially since the choices are, generally, very poor in who I get to vote for. Certainly the current crop of candidates are not worth two years of my life on the chance that the person I ending up checking on the ballot may actually get elected.

Now, you want to make service mandatory for candidates, I might be cool with that under the right circumstances.

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RE: Vested interest in your country - 8/21/2008 1:07:47 AM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		And some basic geography questions too. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn
I would be satisfied if voters could answer a few simple questions about the person they were voting for.


_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
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RE: Vested interest in your country - 8/21/2008 3:48:46 AM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline 		I think requiring people to go through federally selected programs in order to be able to vote on who controls the federal government, is the worst idea I've ever heard. Of course it sounds good, and is good intentioned I'm sure, however, it easily could be perverted into indoctrination. I'd put the military in that category already.

Question would be what would stop them from turning participating programs into manipulation tools, or from only allowing government friendly organizations to count as credit. Seeing High School History class was nothing more than a white wash of history by any standard, I don't really enjoy the concept of any more "forced" indoctrination programs in the near future. Imagine the political change one would have if the whole next generation was taught the good and bad history of this country, or the machinations of our economy, in a non federally controlled environment. Hell, you might see some real change occur for the better, instead of a hollow word.

Bad idea, it just gives more power to the government, which is the direct inverse of what we need.

Thanks.

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RE: Vested interest in your country - 8/21/2008 4:48:57 AM   
atursvcMaam


Posts: 1195
Joined: 5/10/2004
Status: offline 		i once heard of a voter's test designed to disenfranchise voters, the questions were remarkably simple and are as follow:

1. Write Stop on the lines

____  _____  _____  _____ 

2.  Baby bull hurts its leg, who does it go to the Mama bull or the Papa bull?  Draw a line
                                                  Mama Bull

Baby Bull   

                                                    Papa Bull

3.  Which word does not belong?
       Man
       Woman
       Drum
       Sex

4.   If a plane crashes on the border of Canada and the US, where to they bury the survivors?

      a. Canada
      b. US
      c. Their home town.

You must get 80% of these questions correct to be allowed to vote.  Are you still hunting for the answers?

1.  the three answers possible with this are  S   T   O   P  ,
       stop   on    the   lines , stop  stop stop stop or
S      T      O     P.      now if your inclination was to disenfranchise voters you could dimiss any of these answers in favor of the other one or ones.  You printed instead of writing, or you did not quite follow instructions.

2.  A mama bull would be a cow, wouldn't it?

3.  You can beat a man, You can beat a woman, You can beat a drum, but can You beat sex?

4.   None of the above is not offered, but the survivors are generally not buried.

if you came up with better than 75% correct, then you cheated better than i did.  Are you really sure you want a test administered before you can vote?

imho, service should be voluntary, but held in higher regard than it is.  i do not have the formula to make that happen though. 

 

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RE: Vested interest in your country - 8/21/2008 5:35:30 AM   
DMFParadox


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Joined: 9/11/2007
Status: offline 		Agreed.  Less government is called for, not stricter requirements on voting.

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RE: Vested interest in your country - 8/21/2008 6:00:40 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		When it comes down to the basics of it all, why do we exist, are we born to serve or born to live ? How come is it we have these powerful governments that demand so much of us, surely that was not the intention of human life to be controlled and told how to live. Does the controlling of humans not inhibit the natural human.

Wild creatures, birds and other animals live free of government, they seem to be doing ok, they just live.

If it come to the vote for state control or against, I know where I would be. Maybe when the state controllers of humans have no humans to control, they themselves will become humans and know what it is like to be a human.


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RE: Vested interest in your country - 8/21/2008 6:51:13 AM   
TheHeretic


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Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		        Mandatory national service seems like a good idea to me, but there should be a lot more possibilities than are suggested in the OP.  What makes the "inner city" so damn special?  What about road crews?  Forestry and parks?  Public works programs?  Border patrol?  Environmental clean-up?

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RE: Vested interest in your country - 8/21/2008 7:55:06 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Im against it.

more young people need to get involved- vote and  particpate in the governance.

forced volunoter  is ....  work w/o pay... or    forced labor.  

some things can not be legislated.
How is this any different then seizing someones property?   It is worse.  We each have 24 hours in a day.  Rich or poor- young or old.     anyhow I view the 2 years in order to vote as not appropriate in a free society.

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RE: Vested interest in your country - 8/21/2008 10:08:51 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


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Status: offline 		The number of people who want a free country, want a well-cared for country, want people who have a stake in the country, and yet who do not believe in mandatory community service completely amazes me, though it probably shouldn't. I did my 4 years of community service caring for the elderly and working as a volunteer fireman/paramedic, and came away better for it. I'm considering getting my teaching certificate once I'm ready to retire from where I am, to spend another 2 years teaching in disenfranchised schools in our area (just because the schools here need teachers who want to be there). I volunteer in the community -- and I've encouraged my kids to do the same.

I think that mandatory public service (not just military service -- but any public service that is needed in the community) for 2 years should be the standard. For young people who want to teach or study medicine or practice law, or something like that which can be applied after graduation, they can take their public service years -after- they get out of school, and have their service applied against any student loans they may have outstanding. For those who want to go into a trade, 2 years before trade school contributing to the community is valuable work experience -and- an opportunity to understand better the world in which we live.

I just don't understand people who think that mandatory public service for 2-4 years is this horrible thing. I think it is a great experience for our young people and -does- give a unique perspective from which one can make rational, intelligent decisions about the direction that the nation is moving in and how to move it in more productive directions.

BTW, though Heinlein did not necessarily believe that community service should be required in order to be able to vote, he -was- a strong proponent of mandatory community service, overall.

CFB


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RE: Vested interest in your country - 8/21/2008 10:33:28 AM   
Vendaval


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Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		I like the concept of 2 years of community service but would prefer that it be voluntary rather than mandatory.  I do not think this should be tied to the right to vote. Incentives are a better way of motivating people and if someone refused that would just burden the court system and jails even further.  And I would add working in impoverished rural areas and Native American Reservations as potential duty stations.

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


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RE: Vested interest in your country - 8/21/2008 10:42:50 AM   
DesFIP


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From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		2 years paid community service. Paid because many 18 year olds need to work and if they're working 40 hours a week, they can't be expected to work another 40 to earn money to pay for night school which they are taking at the same time.

But I'd open it up to anything charitable. Why not work for Habitat for Humanity? Or blood banks? Why does it have to be inner city or out of the country.

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RE: Vested interest in your country - 8/21/2008 11:02:22 AM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Good points, Celeste.

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

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RE: Vested interest in your country - 8/22/2008 11:41:07 AM   
SavageFaerie


Posts: 4377
Joined: 12/3/2004
From: NYC
Status: offline 		Hunky, Im with ya Im mean really look at it.

2 years of forced sertitude at the govts desire for a chance to vote. Hell we dont elect in my opinion, the electoral college does, its been proven by the last presidental election that Bush won by electoral votes not the popular vote.
So in a weird way in my mind your giving them 2 years free servitude for what probably nothing, okay the public service is a good idea regardless but make it concentual, or as mentioned a credit or incentive for schooling which would perhaps cut down on public assistance maybe a tad bit.

Yet in our lifestyles concentual sertitude is looked down on and in some cases not legal.

Me personally would rather move out of the country than become a slave of the state for the right to a unpredictable single vote.

I vote for the island on the other thread whos title remains hidden in my brain, oh ermm the man making the sexual society that is under arrest for trying to entice the NZ lady and her child to help toward his procreation. Yeah thats it, not his mind you, the CM'ers version is definetly appealing.

Disclaimer:  This is just my opinion and not based on anything but my own head and foggy memory, if  I have it all wrong, just smack me and move along. I take no offence in being dead ass wrong.

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