Fair and Balanced? This ain't Fox News! On Double Standards

Fair and Balanced? This ain't Fox News! On Double Standards (Full Version)

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BitaTruble -> Fair and Balanced? This ain't Fox News! On Double Standards (8/20/2008 10:01:52 PM)
Not everything in the relationship I share with Himself is 'lead by example'. The sauce for the goose is not the sauce for the gander. I believe it's fairly common and I doubt there are many who would sneeze twice at such thinking (some to be sure though!) There's another set of double standards though which doesn't get spoken of quite so often - the higher standard that some of us expect from the Top-types. Don't get me wrong. I don't expect perfection, Godlike abilities or superhuman effort. I just happen to hold those who put on the Top Hat and Tails to a bit of a higher standard. There are certain expectations in my mind for those who call themselves Master. If you do put on that particular title, then proceed to whine, pitch a fit or hold your breath till you turn blue, well, it would be very difficult for me to think of you as an adult much less a Master. Now, I don't like that sort of behavior much in the kneel types either, but I'm more likely to express a bit more empathy or compassion if it seems to come from a sincere expression of angst .. not much, but I can't deny that there is a smidge of a difference between the orientations for me. This is an observation, something I've simply noticed about myself when reading and posting various responses on these boards and the various elists I've belonged to over the years. Something else I've noticed is that it seems I do this strictly based on orientation and not gender. So male submissives/slaves do get that extra break from me and female dominants don't. Perhaps it's because I think that if you're on the left side of the slash you should be able to rise above petty behavior without a 'good dom' pat on the head. (Facts which may be belied by the political threads, but that breeds its own sort of monster!) My patience for the 'brat' quotient is higher for the s types than for the d types. I'm not sure if its a bias, or a form of prejudice, but I can't deny this particular character flaw that I hold. I do recognize it as such, but, I'm okay with it and don't plan on putting a lot of time and effort in trying to rid myself of it. For one thing, there are lots of other things I need to work on and I don't have time for everything and for another .. well, I think the d types can probably handle the slight elevation without getting a nose bleed, so it's all good with me. Is it fair or balanced? Probably not but then I don't work for Fox News so fair and balanced needn't come into play in my world. S-types, do you find yourself holding dominants to higher standards while cutting a break to other s types or is it one standard for all? Something else? D-types, how would you feel about being held to a higher standard? Do you think it's a form of hubris for an s-type to hold you to higher standards? Do you think you would have any trouble meeting those higher standards or is it beneath you to acknowledge the possibility? Something else? Either and/or all sets of questions to the switch types.

HeavansKeeper -> RE: Fair and Balanced? This ain't Fox News! On Double Standards (8/21/2008 12:01:41 AM)
My Pet belongs to me by choice. Her friends, family, and lovers know it. She's proud of it, and so am I. I would be disappointed in My Pet if she didn't have high standards for the man she's chooses to belong to. She doesn't have to say them, or point out how they're different from vanilla men or maybe submissive, but she knows they're there. I try not to be petty. It's a thin line between getting what you want and being petty. I enjoy being held to a higher standard. It puts me in a more elite class. My Pet never pries on the standards. She sometimes tells me how happy she is to belong to me. That is how I know I've exceeded her standards. If a submissive was too demanding on her expectations, I would be put off. The hubris is in how the expectations come into play. If a slavegirl left me because "I expected more out of you. Goodbye" then no. If she hands me a list of expectations: "No being petty. No showing emotions. Make 6 hours a day for me." then yes. The same slavegirl could be in either situation. Your placement of expectation on the dominant implies lower expectation on the submissive. I always smile when people acknowledge being on top is hard work. The truth is both sides work very hard, and should have realistic, but high expectations of their partner.

Skully7000 -> RE: Fair and Balanced? This ain't Fox News! On Double Standards (8/21/2008 12:33:52 AM)
I most certainly hold other dominants to higher standards. What those standards are vary greatly depending on the person and the setting.... but most generally its a matter of being able to take care of yourself, having a sense of Maturity(not lacking in fun but the maturity is there) and also just being able to keep a cool and level head. Even if one gets heated...they should be able to mantain some level of decorum. I often think of many various movies/books where High Society partake in some verbal sparring. But I realize I can sometimes be an Idealist;) Cheers Skully

badlilthang -> RE: Fair and Balanced? This ain't Fox News! On Double Standards (8/21/2008 1:20:43 AM)
quote: T quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble There are certain expectations in my mind for those who call themselves Master. If you do put on that particular title, then proceed to whine, pitch a fit or hold your breath till you turn blue, well, it would be very difficult for me to think of you as an adult much less a Master. *Hello BitaTruble...smiles...i have met quite a few of that kind of "Master", and in my opinion they are not even close to put that title in their mouths. A Master in my eyes is in control of Himself, His emotions and His actions. Yes, He can/should be playful and have fun - He can/should also be able to know how to carry Himself in every situation - especially when "He does not get His way". To get the submissive to listen and want to submit, instead of whining her to her knees and have her submit in pure desperation to stop His whining (most likely she will run away - out of whining range).* Now, I don't like that sort of behavior much in the kneel types either, but I'm more likely to express a bit more empathy or compassion if it seems to come from a sincere expression of angst .. not much, but I can't deny that there is a smidge of a difference between the orientations for me. **and as a kneel type...hehe...i do NOT whine. i may protest and want to discuss things - things that worry me or downright frighten me, and i feel that is my right. Hissyfits, whining or bitching is not me - i have a good brain, and i prefer to use that side - and explain clearly how i feel and why - and i can only hope the Dominant i chose to kneel for will listen. He does not - of course - have to do things as i want them - but i am sure He will make me do what i need to do...within the boundries set. Communication for me is a must. To be told to shut up and do as told just because He is the Dom and i have* to submit does not cut it with me...and it will eventually break the trust i have in Him keeping me safe...especially if it is something totally new to me - and i have no clue as of how i will react when things start. i will also like to say that this is after rules are set - i know the Dom well - He knows the hard limits i have - and we are trying a new thing i am a tad worried about and voicing my opinion. If it is in the beginning of a relationship - i usually ask a million questions...lol...i am eager to please, i am very obedient - sadly also at times pushing myself beyond my own limits if i am not watched...because of this need to obey and please my One. i need to trust in Him to see that and know what to do.* Something else I've noticed is that it seems I do this strictly based on orientation and not gender. So male submissives/slaves do get that extra break from me and female dominants don't. Perhaps it's because I think that if you're on the left side of the slash you should be able to rise above petty behavior without a 'good dom' pat on the head. i switched a few years back, the Domme in me is still there - but the slave/submissive part is much more natural for me - but on either side of the fence - i never liked whining much. It is a total turnoff for me. To ask for things, beg - fine. Whine? i find myself looking at a 4 year old close to a hissyfit...no thanks..LOL.. S-types, do you find yourself holding dominants to higher standards while cutting a break to other s types or is it one standard for all? Something else? personally i hold the Doms to a higher standard - because if i am to trust One to take care of me - and control me - He also needs to be in control of Himself. He does not need to be superman. If He hurts one day - or is feeling off, i DO hope He trusts me enough to confide in me and let me be there to help. But on the other hand - i also expect myself to keep a high standard - to make Him proud of His choice of submissive/slave. We should all do our best, right - and in every setting in life.** D-types, how would you feel about being held to a higher standard? Do you think it's a form of hubris for an s-type to hold you to higher standards? Do you think you would have any trouble meeting those higher standards or is it beneath you to acknowledge the possibility? Something else? Either and/or all sets of questions to the switch types.

TwistedLeather -> RE: Fair and Balanced? This ain't Fox News! On Double Standards (8/21/2008 2:08:18 AM)
Honestly, i think the only submissive/slave that would find that type of Master, Dom, Sir (whatever!) desirable would be one who wishes to actually top from the bottom. That is to say, the one on Top should be confident, strong, secure, consistent, blah blah blah. Sniveling, whining, and being wishy-washy in various ways leaves too many holes in their command. But i'm just a girl... what would i know? :P

mistoferin -> RE: Fair and Balanced? This ain't Fox News! On Double Standards (8/21/2008 2:51:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble S-types, do you find yourself holding dominants to higher standards while cutting a break to other s types or is it one standard for all? I'm more of a one standard for all kinda gal. I think that in part that may be the reason why I don't make as many really close associations with those of the submissive persuasion because I think that a lot of "s" types are accustomed to having that extra leeway and consideration given to them and often use their orientation to excuse bad behavior or alleviate themselves of responsibility. I expect adults to be and act like adults. The benefit of that for me is that the people that really are very close to me in my life, be they "D" or "s" types, are high caliber people. I find that to be a better filter than choosing friends according to orientation, gender or class.

silkncarol -> RE: Fair and Balanced? This ain't Fox News! On Double Standards (8/21/2008 3:02:49 AM)
I do hold Dominants to higher standards.....i expect them to have control of themselves first. I don't whine, pout, rant or rave and have high standards for my own behaviour, so i expect the same from my own Dom. If i am a reflection of my owner, then by all means i want that reflection to be positive......

simpleplan2 -> RE: Fair and Balanced? This ain't Fox News! On Double Standards (8/21/2008 3:16:35 AM)
I'm more in tune with erin. I expect all adults to act just like that...adults. I have often wondered, tho, if certain submissives act they way they do because they feel it is almost expected of them or because they know they get cut some extra slack. I've often read (in dominant profiles) that submissives are "childlike" or need to be led "like children". I can't help but wonder if that contributes to certain behavior.

kallisto -> RE: Fair and Balanced? This ain't Fox News! On Double Standards (8/21/2008 3:21:59 AM)
I believe the same set standards should apply to both the D/s. Why would either one of us want to be in the relationship if our standards of each other are not the same? I have high standards of myself and expect that of my Dom as well. As I know He would expect of me. If we lower our standards for ourselves or for each other, aren't we just settling?

mistoferin -> RE: Fair and Balanced? This ain't Fox News! On Double Standards (8/21/2008 3:24:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: simpleplan2 I have often wondered, tho, if certain submissives act they way they do because they feel it is almost expected of them or because they know they get cut some extra slack. I've often read (in dominant profiles) that submissives are "childlike" or need to be led "like children". I can't help but wonder if that contributes to certain behavior. In many instances I think that it IS expected of them. I certainly see it encouraged and rewarded often enough.

Leatherist -> RE: Fair and Balanced? This ain't Fox News! On Double Standards (8/21/2008 3:37:59 AM)
Nope. I'm a sadist-if you want to hold me to high standards-you had best be able to meet them yourself-or else.

ExSteelAgain -> RE: Fair and Balanced? This ain't Fox News! On Double Standards (8/21/2008 4:12:16 AM)
I suppose if I didn’t expect mature behavior from submissives, anything would be alright. But in my world the submissives are hard working, intelligent and certainly my equal in displaying grown-up qualities. More realistically, we are all a little ambiguous in our behavior. Tolerance of ambiguity is the sign of a thinking person who is not quite so rigid. I’m sure in any D/s relationship, actually any type relationship, you both change a little. Even if you didn’t make an attempt to consciously change anything, it doesn’t mean nothing changed. We work on each other in subtle ways. I have expectations of all folks to reflect back on my opening statement, but I also don’t have preconceived stereotypical ideas about others because of orientation.

catize -> RE: Fair and Balanced? This ain't Fox News! On Double Standards (8/21/2008 4:36:08 AM)
quote: S-types, do you find yourself holding dominants to higher standards while cutting a break to other s types or is it one standard for all? Something else? Yes, I do. If a person calls themselves Dominant (or Master or Mistress) and expects respect and obedience from their s-type, expect the right to call the shots, then they damn well better be willing to accept the responsibilities and obligations that are inherent in the title. Both side have their responsibilities, of course, but I do hold the D-types to a higher standard (heavy is the head that wears the crown)

IrishMist -> RE: Fair and Balanced? This ain't Fox News! On Double Standards (8/21/2008 4:40:07 AM)
quote: S-types, do you find yourself holding dominants to higher standards while cutting a break to other s types or is it one standard for all? Something else? No, I don't hold Dominants to a higher standard. Alot of times, I look at the person and not the title...and while I know that age does NOT breed maturity; I do find myself constantly thinking ' geesh, your so and so age...grow up and be responsible for a change". For me, it has nothing to do with a title that they may claim and everything to do with making mature and responsible choices for what we do.

SingleRarity -> RE: Fair and Balanced? This ain't Fox News! On Double Standards (8/21/2008 4:50:05 AM)
I think it's perfectly fine being held to higher standard, especially considering that you are expecting and being expected to lead in many respects. Meeting higher standards is always a challenge, but it's something you do when you are a leader, and if you think you are above that, then in my opinion you don't deserve to lead. -A

RavenMuse -> RE: Fair and Balanced? This ain't Fox News! On Double Standards (8/21/2008 5:30:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble D-types, how would you feel about being held to a higher standard? Do you think it's a form of hubris for an s-type to hold you to higher standards? Do you think you would have any trouble meeting those higher standards or is it beneath you to acknowledge the possibility? Something else? Firstly I hold MYSELF to a higher standard than anyone else would or could. However I am the only one in a position to judge the actions in context... next would be My girl (she doesn't have the authority to 'hold Me to a certain standard' but If I didn't meet the standards I outlined as a minimum then she would react to the breach of trust and excersise her one right... to withdraw consent and walk)... others will have an opinion but thats all they have. However in all those cases I consider it quite justified that certain things are expected of Me. If I say something will happen then, unless I get hit by a bus (Or something equaly drastic) then people who know Me EXPECT it to happen.... and rightfully so. I don't commit to something lightly and having done so then I expect to follow through. There is a difference however between meeting those expectations based on commitment, honesty, integrity... based on what I am and expectations based on others assumptions, based on some over-inflated, up on a pedistal image that they have constructed. What is beneeth Me is to pander to such unrealistic assumptions from people who have made such a base error and not dealt with reality. I do give more slack to those on the 's' side of the Dynamic so long as it is reality and not fantasy they are having a problem with. If someone makes a claim to be a Master then I DO expect Them to reach a higher standard of following through on what they commit to, I do expect them to show a duty of care.... not necessaraly in the same manner I do, but I expect it to be there.

NeedingMore220 -> RE: Fair and Balanced? This ain't Fox News! On Double Standards (8/21/2008 5:44:19 AM)
I hold the Dominant to whom I submit to a very high standard. I've learned that's best for me. In reverse, I expect him to demand and expect a lot of me. Within our own relationship, I probably do put him on a pedestal in that I adore serving him and belonging to him. But he does the same, letting me know how special he feels I am. As far as other Doms go, no, I don't hold them to higher standards. I expect them to act as mature adults, and when they don't and throw hissy fits or try and toss their 'weight' around my esteem for them drops accordingly. Same with other submissives. I don't go for the childlike, bratty behavior. I don't understand it, and hold a bit of contempt for it. If it works within their relationship, go for it. But to carry that into the world just smacks of 'look at me' and is a negative in my eyes.

leadership527 -> RE: Fair and Balanced? This ain't Fox News! On Double Standards (8/21/2008 6:35:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble S-types, do you find yourself holding dominants to higher standards while cutting a break to other s types or is it one standard for all? Something else? D-types, how would you feel about being held to a higher standard? Do you think it's a form of hubris for an s-type to hold you to higher standards? Do you think you would have any trouble meeting those higher standards or is it beneath you to acknowledge the possibility? Something else? As near as I can tell, I hold myself to higher standards than I hold my wife to. She holds herself to higher standards than she holds me to. Both of us struggle to meet the standards we define for ourselves. This has been pretty typical of us throughout our whole marriage, long before a collar was involved. Both of us have always been more focused on what WE were bringing to the relationship, good or bad, than what the other person was. I love my wife. I don't need her to do much else other than exist and be herself. If I step back and look at this all a bit more objectively, what I would say as the Master is that I hold both of us to very high standards. When I collared my wife, I think my exact line was, "gone are the days of us doing enough for our marriage to make it good. Now we are going to be doing the absolute best we can to make our marriage perfect." So that's the bar we are both jumping over nowadays.

LaTigresse -> RE: Fair and Balanced? This ain't Fox News! On Double Standards (8/21/2008 6:53:07 AM)
I hold MYSELF to a higher standard than anyone else would even dream of. I know what I am capable of, I know when I am being lazy, petty, childish, etc etc etc. I know when I am not giving me all. Very few others will ever be aware of what I am capable of therefor when I am not giving it 100%. I also hold the people in my life to high standards. My awareness needs to be focused on making sure it is their standard and not my own. Based upon things like, what are their strengths and weaknesses, what are they struggling with at the moment, what is affecting them at various moments, and most importantly......how, if I can, can I help them? My goal is to be the best LeeAnn I can be. Hopefully I can encourage others to be the best "them". Not try to push, or expect them, to be another LeeAnn. All of that being said.....in my mind I hold people to the standards they try to claim for themselves. If they spout off a description that they believe a dominant or slave/sub, should be, and say they are whatever that is(dominant,slave, submissive), yet do not hold themself to that very description/standard................ Then I do tend to think less of them. Hopefully some of that makes sense.........

SunNMoon -> RE: Fair and Balanced? This ain't Fox News! On Double Standards (8/21/2008 7:04:47 AM)
Both sides are adults and both sides are held to normal adult standards. Why should a relationship orientation take away a personal responsibility? Personally I hold myself to my own set of standards. If someone is going to hold me to a different set of standards well, I do expect you to follow that same set. I personally feel if an s is holding a d to a set of standards then that same s better be willing to follow that same set of standards. If they hold them for one group why not the other?

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