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RE: An extension of................... - 8/21/2008 10:11:30 AM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

I often hear things like............................
'Mike and his sub will be attending'
'This is miss harsh and her slave'
'Oh you know her, peter's sub'
Words spoken that lead me to believe sometimes a sub /slave is only seen as an extension of the Dom / Domme.

When i go out to a munch, club etc and chat to Dom's / Dommes and subs /slaves, i often feel with the sub / slave i am only really getting to know their public / protocol sides. Could the same be said of Doms / Dommes~? Yes probably but i feel it is far more noticable in the s types.
 
Even here i sometimes see the s type referred to as an extension. For example i quite often see the line 'KoM and his girls'. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with this per se and certainly not having at go at KoM or alandra or Kyra. So please don't flame me!
 
Where has this come from? Well a few years back i was involved in a poly relationship. There was myself, a Dom and two other subs. I really didn't have much to do with one of the other subs but i did spend a lot of time with the Dom and his primary partner. I got to know the other sub (or thought i had).
 
Then things went pear shaped and i left the poly arrangement. In the aftermath (it was a rough spell), i spent time with the Dom and Sub together and seperately trying to repair damage that had be done. Trying to form some kind of friendship with them. In the time i spent alone with the sub i felt i had now got to know the real person, not the extension of the Dom.
 
Bring it on a couple of years and the Dom and sub have now split up. I hadnt maintained much contact with the sub to be honest in this time. Now we are in regular contact and it appears getting to know each other all over again. She has become her own person and im finding i adore her. She is no longer what i would call an 'extension of her Dom'.
 
Was just wondering how others view what i have observed?
Am i wrong, am i picking up something that isn't there?
Just looking for others points of view in general really.


I would say that happens in relationships in general, but I'll say from my perspective the side of my personality that people see when I'm with my owner is a bit different than how I am alone in social situations and those are both different than how I am one-on-one with close friends and family.  I don't believe that any of that is because of my personality being sublimated or adsorbed by my owner, but rather I'm pretty close to the vest (and easily bored and not a huge fan of the small talk) so in a social situation would rather just let him socialize (he's much more of a social butterfly and talker in large social situations than I am).  If I'm alone in a social situation I'll pony up and force myself to be more social, but it doesn't necessarily mean that's who I am or what I'm comfortable doing. 

So absolutely there's a difference in my public side and my private side (aka who I actually am), but I think that most people are that way.  I don't find social situations to be the best way to really get to know someone.

C~

_____________________________

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(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: An extension of................... - 8/22/2008 12:39:51 AM   
MaamJay


Posts: 2101
Joined: 9/2/2005
Status: offline 		In this case, i'm the social butterfly whereas Master is by nature more reserved ... He feels like an extension of me! It backfires on me a bit as i find it gets me more jobs to do eg "you phone them, they know YOU better!" i confess to saying no when He suggested yesterday that i ring HIS father to organise for Him to borrow a spare car while His is getting fixed! That's going a bit far LOL! He laughed, looked sheepish and said "Well, it was worth a try!" Which reminds me ... i need to remind Him to make the call!

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: An extension of................... - 8/22/2008 6:30:55 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		Here's the bad news Missturbation... the "problem" is way deeper than that.  In my eyes, you became an extension of someone else as soon as you got into a committed relationship with them.  I use the phrases "me and mine" and "you and yours" all the time and I will say "you and yours" to both a sub or a dom.  I am just as much "her dom" as she is "my sub".  A 6' leash is 6 feet in both directions.  I would also say "you and yours" to a vanilla wife or husband.

Insofar as "public face", it is certainly true that mine is on her "best behavior" (such as it is *laughs*) when we are out at a public BDSM function.  So within limits, you're not going to be getting the real her.  Then again, people are pretty much always puttong on some mask or another when they are out in public.  In general, if you want to talk to someone as close to au-natural as possible, you kind of need to do it in a comfortable and private setting such as their living room.

Insofar as all this being healthy.... In my opinion, it is healthy so long as this identity is an additional role being added to an already healthy set of roles an individual employs.  When it attempts to replace their core self, then it becomes unhealthy.  I refer to my wife as "mine"... but you can bet I'd stop doing that in a heartbeat if she started losing sight of the core carol and truly started become just an extension of me.

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: An extension of................... - 8/22/2008 6:56:06 AM   
seababy


Posts: 845
Joined: 6/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

Argh i wasn't negating anyone.
I was merely trying to ask if becoming an extension of someone is always healthy. As i stated in my op i got to know three versions of the same sub. Two as being extensions of her Dom and one as herself.
 
Hope this makes it a little clearer


Well I was in a vanilla relationship for many years and I became just that, an extension of him.
I felt like it took years to find my own personality again.
No I don't think its always healthy and I worry about going into something full time and losing my identity.
I know what Erin is saying although in the kind of relationships she mentions I see them as reflecting different facets of myself, with my ex I felt like I was just an extension of his ego.

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: An extension of................... - 8/22/2008 7:46:50 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

I often hear things like............................
'Mike and his sub will be attending'
'This is miss harsh and her slave'
'Oh you know her, peter's sub'
Words spoken that lead me to believe sometimes a sub /slave is only seen as an extension of the Dom / Domme.

When i go out to a munch, club etc and chat to Dom's / Dommes and subs /slaves, i often feel with the sub / slave i am only really getting to know their public / protocol sides. Could the same be said of Doms / Dommes~? Yes probably but i feel it is far more noticable in the s types.
 
Even here i sometimes see the s type referred to as an extension. For example i quite often see the line 'KoM and his girls'. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with this per se and certainly not having at go at KoM or alandra or Kyra. So please don't flame me!
 
Where has this come from? Well a few years back i was involved in a poly relationship. There was myself, a Dom and two other subs. I really didn't have much to do with one of the other subs but i did spend a lot of time with the Dom and his primary partner. I got to know the other sub (or thought i had).
 
Then things went pear shaped and i left the poly arrangement. In the aftermath (it was a rough spell), i spent time with the Dom and Sub together and seperately trying to repair damage that had be done. Trying to form some kind of friendship with them. In the time i spent alone with the sub i felt i had now got to know the real person, not the extension of the Dom.
 
Bring it on a couple of years and the Dom and sub have now split up. I hadnt maintained much contact with the sub to be honest in this time. Now we are in regular contact and it appears getting to know each other all over again. She has become her own person and im finding i adore her. She is no longer what i would call an 'extension of her Dom'.
 
Was just wondering how others view what i have observed?
Am i wrong, am i picking up something that isn't there?
Just looking for others points of view in general really.


As someone else noted, when someone is in a relationship and they become so absorbed in their partner that they themselves are lost, then you have to wonder about the health of the dynamic.

It gets a bit trickier in viewing D/s dynamics in the same manner.  When you know a submissive before she enters into a D/s dynamic and when she is in that dynamic, she begins to undergo this "morphing", it may well be that the dominant is influencing and guiding her to changes he feels she needs to make in her personal life and in her behavior.  There is no guarantee that the person that comes out at the end of his changing is going to be someone we like better though in all actuality, she may indeed be a better person if he has done his job right in leading her to the changes that she wanted to make.  Additionally, in many instances of D/s, the submissive/slave is considered to be the dominant's property and is reflective of protocol within that relationship and descriptions of the couple (or more) is often reflective of "traditional" ways of referring to relationships which often signifies the hierarchy of the dynamic.

As someone else noted though...and something of which I was reminded yesterday...we are all often extensions and our place within that extension depends on the other person's viewpoint.  If I went to see you and met another friend of yours and then we all went out to a bar, I would expect to hear that person introduce me to others as "misst's friend, CD" rather than "CD, friend to misst".  I heard my um's friend introduce me to her boyfriend as "this is __________ dad, the chiropractor".

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: An extension of................... - 8/22/2008 7:57:43 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		The only extension i want to be is an extension of Sir's penis. My tongue bar firmly nd constantly attached to his ring (piercing not anal). Although come to think of it mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: An extension of................... - 8/22/2008 9:26:29 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
Was just wondering how others view what i have observed?
Am i wrong, am i picking up something that isn't there?
Just looking for others points of view in general really.


Interesting questions and as you pointed out and I concur.. "KoM and his girls" is something that I see alot of .  I think every situation has be judged on it's merits.  I don't mean that every time I see "KoM and is girls is the same situation... I mean that each person that says it is a new situation and sometimes the same person saying at different times might be a different situation.

In think in many cases the comment reflects me as the authority of the relationship and not that they know me better than the two girls.  I tend to see Dominants (male or female) make this reference more often than submissives.  When submissives use it is often because they are talking about me in my relationship to my girls.  But that doesn't stop individuals from taking an interest in getting to know the extensions if that is what they want or desire to.  Obviously Alandra rarely posts on the boards.. she more lurker than poster... There almost isn't a day that she doesn't glance at the boards (mostly to keep up on what Kyra or I are posting)... So in most cases.. it's Kyra on the forums that people are more familiar with.  Often times individuals (Dominant or otherwise) will post directly to Kyra as an individual with our relationship.  There are a few on the boards that have quietly got to know Kyra alittle bit beyond the boards.  Even if these individuals us that all encompassing comment "KoM and his girls" it doesn't take away from the knowledge they have specifically of Kyra.  But.. on the surface most only know what they see here and as such it goes back to the comment reflecting me as the authority in the relationship.

You example of yourself is alittle different.  Mostly because the reference is a reflections of your priority at the time.  The Dominant was your priority and not the rest of the family.  As you said you didn't really know the one sub... just because she wasn't a priority for you at the time.  Times change and so did your priorities.  I think this very possible in many situations.  In mine this wouldn't sit well with me. 

For example... When Kyra came into my life... if her only focus was me and didn't want or desire to put in the effort to know Alandra.. I would have be very put off.  Not that I expect her to make great leaps and efforts either.  I expect them to develop at their speed not mine.  But I was watchful that what they where doing was for each other and not because of me.  I know how Alandra behaves with a relationship... and.. I learned what Kyra is like... in many ways.. they are very different... and it was going to be interesting.  Alandra is not a talker... she is much more a doer... in that she enjoys doing things with the person.. be it making supper or going to an event.. this is how she connects with people.  Sitting down for a coffee and talking about anything is just not her style... if she sits she wants to read a book instead.  Kyra is a talker!  but not shallow weather small talk stuff.  So.. they had and have their challenges in this regard.  It is has taken them longer to connect but the connection is stronger because of it. 

With others.... coming in my life.... well I have been and would be just as watchful.  I wouldn't force others to make the connection with the two girls nor would I want them to do it to please me.  If they are interested in me... they have to be interested in knowning my extensions to be a deep part of the family.  Failure to have that connection would just mean that they couldn't be an intimate part of the whole.  They wouldn't ever become primary to us.. and if being a secondary wasn't good enough for them... or they wanted me to be primary for them... well they are in for alot of disappointment.   We are each others' primary partner.... to be a part of that.. a person would have to do the same.  There is no extensions within the family.



_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: An extension of................... - 8/22/2008 10:00:06 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline
quote:

Obviously Alandra rarely posts on the boards.. she more lurker than poster... There almost isn't a day that she doesn't glance at the boards (mostly to keep up on what Kyra or I are posting)... So in most cases.. it's Kyra on the forums that people are more familiar with.

I do remember (i think) a time when Alandra used to post more frequently and i always had the same impression of her that i do of Kyra. Whenever i see 'KoM and his girls' i always see it in a positive healthy light. From what i have read from both of them although pretty much in sync with you they still speak from themselves rather than a sense of being 'just' an extension of you.
It is when i hear / read things on the board things like 'Sir says, my daddy says' that i begin to wonder! I'm sure some of these are healthy relationships but i'm also pretty sure that some of it is like robotic mind take over. They do not appear to be able to think for themselves any longer and just mindlessly quote what their D type has said. Harsh? Quite possibly but i make no apologies for it.
 
quote:

But.. on the surface most only know what they see here and as such it goes back to the comment reflecting me as the authority in the relationship.

I agree and as an aside to this i think that in public etc i should be mindful of my behaviour, that it is how He would want it to be. I am an extension of Him to a certain degree and would not want it any other way.
 
quote:

You example of yourself is alittle different.  Mostly because the reference is a reflections of your priority at the time.  The Dominant was your priority and not the rest of the family.

I did get to know, or so i thought one of the subs. We spent an awful lot of time together alone. However she had already become just an unhealthy extension of the dom long before i entered the equation.
 
quote:

As you said you didn't really know the one sub... just because she wasn't a priority for you at the time.

Actually the other sub disliked me and would not entertain me even when we were all out in each others company.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: An extension of................... - 8/22/2008 10:44:07 AM   
Mavis


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline 		Maybe i'm a nutcake here, but i don't mind ..  i have a deep need to be in some situations to be "an extension".

In the workplace, when i called on clients, i wanted to BE the company.  i was the face of our product, and my personal self had to be an aside to my primary presentation.

As a married sub.. but even before i was his sub.. if someone didn't want to acknowledge me as "Tom's wife" i'd feel my association and role with him was negated.  Hey.  i'm not his running buddy, i'm his wife,  and i'll appreciate you applying all the cultural courtesies afforded that position.  And i hate salesmen that want to call me by my first name..  "That's Mrs. T__, please." 

When i visit Masters zone, with all but their children, i need to be introduced as His slave.  If he were to intrduce me as "our friends from out of town, T__. and D__." i'd be shattered!  It would, again, negate all the implications of the title i have earned.

Outside of those situations, in my own social circles, i am myself, but anyone who knows and appreciates my "self" is also appreciating the reflections of the others in my life.  i hope.

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~ Mavis

none of this applies to me, i'm only playing with lables this week.

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: An extension of................... - 8/22/2008 11:00:21 AM   
StormsSlave


Posts: 629
Joined: 2/6/2008
Status: offline 		I haven't seen this response yet, so here we go.

When I was married to the lunatic, we briefly experimented with a poly situation. Her I loved, but I know she saw me as someone entirely different when with him as when we were alone together, and she would have been correct. I, the person, was so repressed by him that I only ever acted like myself when without him. In that relationship, the things that were not "right" about me were sources of contention to be "corrected." I had no choice but to hide a huge portion of who I am to avoid conflict. That lady would meet an entirely different woman now.

Is it possible she felt repressed in his presence, even if it was something in her own head?

I hope people don't say that about My Lord and myself. I have never felt more free to just be who I am. Whether I am his or he is mine sort of depends on the who that is speaking and how they know us.

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: An extension of................... - 8/22/2008 11:21:36 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

It is when i hear / read things on the board things like 'Sir says, my daddy says' that i begin to wonder! I'm sure some of these are healthy relationships but i'm also pretty sure that some of it is like robotic mind take over. They do not appear to be able to think for themselves any longer and just mindlessly quote what their D type has said. Harsh? Quite possibly but i make no apologies for it.


I agree with you that it can give the impression that the submissive isn't thinking for themselves.  I also take it a step further... does the submissive actually believe what she/he is saying or just walking the company line so to speak.

I can't tell you how often I have read posts from Kyra that feel like they came right out of my mind and even my mouth.  This actually gives me the opinion that what I tell her and talk with her is being internalized.  She isn't just reading from a script or repeating my godly words of wisdom.  She is make those godly words of wisdom her own.. it's internalized and she isn't just stating them for the company line.. they are her thoughts and feelings.  I planted alot of seeds and tended the harvest... but in the end.. the crop is from her land.  He is showing me that she isn't just mindlessless following my will.. she is more than an extension of my will.  she is using her mind to both internalize my thoughts and ideals.. but also through discussions... we have refined them.. Made them better.  She enhances them because she is making it hers as well as mine.  Alandra and I went through the same process years ago.. and now Kyra's contribution to this family is taking us a step further. 

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: An extension of................... - 8/22/2008 11:24:20 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

Obviously Alandra rarely posts on the boards.. she more lurker than poster... There almost isn't a day that she doesn't glance at the boards (mostly to keep up on what Kyra or I are posting)... So in most cases.. it's Kyra on the forums that people are more familiar with.

I do remember (i think) a time when Alandra used to post more frequently and i always had the same impression of her that i do of Kyra. Whenever i see 'KoM and his girls' i always see it in a positive healthy light. From what i have read from both of them although pretty much in sync with you they still speak from themselves rather than a sense of being 'just' an extension of you.
It is when i hear / read things on the board things like 'Sir says, my daddy says' that i begin to wonder! I'm sure some of these are healthy relationships but i'm also pretty sure that some of it is like robotic mind take over. They do not appear to be able to think for themselves any longer and just mindlessly quote what their D type has said. Harsh? Quite possibly but i make no apologies for it.


I would think that, in some instances anyway, you are right.  I have seen that with couples that are unmarried, engaged (a LOT with engaged couples), married and I have noted it with D/s couples.  In the twist that goes with D/s, it may be a result of training and of "ingraining" their Master/Mistress's thoughts onto their own thought patterns.  I especially see it when they are referring to how the dynamic is conducted or in discussion of their behavior or something related to D/s but I have seen it in other areas that would not be considered to be "typical" D/s dynamic-oriented.  But there again, what is "typical"?  Some submissives will not concede control of their career over to a dominant...some do.  Some will not concede control of their reading habits over to a dominant...some do.  I will grant you though that it can be a bit disturbing when all you ever hear is "Master/Mistress says this...Master/Mistress says that" and it addresses each and every single situation that comes up, including what the person thinks of the weather today..."well, Master says it is crappy so crappy it is".
 

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: An extension of................... - 8/22/2008 11:43:00 AM   
UR2Badored


Posts: 506
Joined: 2/3/2007
Status: offline 		As RavenMuse states, "My Girl is My property"

I like Raven's statement, and it says it all for me. Sorry, I may be viewed as silly or I may be over simplifying this......But a possessive noun (or pronoun) befits ownership of an object.  Whew, I saw Mavis's avatar and thought it was SoO.....I wonder what ever happened to her and if she is okay....

< Message edited by UR2Badored -- 8/22/2008 11:47:49 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: An extension of................... - 8/22/2008 4:50:18 PM   
Mavis


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline 		(side comment)

UR2Badored...   i think of her (SoO )  when i see my avatar too, we both had same one for some time, and i peek now and then to see if she's still posting..  miss her array of questions and discussion topics.  

(in reply to UR2Badored)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: An extension of................... - 8/22/2008 7:11:27 PM   
HornyToadsMI


Posts: 287
Joined: 5/19/2007
Status: offline 		RaveMuse - You said this better than little me could!

quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

MY girl is My property. she isn't so much an extention of Me but her behaviour will and does reflect upon Me. There is no time off from Our Dynamic, no time where she doesn't belong to Me. Wether I am present or not she is still under My rules and is accountable to Me.

Part of why she chose this lifestyle in the firstplace is that she is more free to be herself within the control of another, she is slave, it comes with the territory. she is happier, more content, more secure.... more herself as Mine than if she where free.

The other side of that is that within My Dynamic she has room to express who she is as a person... it is just within limits, My limits.





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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: An extension of................... - 8/22/2008 9:24:20 PM   
Paulnz


Posts: 411
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

I don't think it is always healthy or always unhealthy.  Frankly I see it as something that depends upon who is known and who is unknown.  A good friend of mine may introduce me as XXXX and her Master XXXX and that doesn't specifically make Master an extension of me.  When we go places where Master is the person known, He is introduced first and I as His slave or girlfriend or friend or cumguzzler, it doesn't matter.

When my son started high school he was dismayed to be "[my daughter's name]'s brother" and that lasted until my daughter and her friends graduated.  It really is just about who was known first, or who rsvp'd to the event, etc.


Exactly, we are all extensions of someone else in some way or another.


(in reply to eyesopened)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: An extension of................... - 8/23/2008 6:55:44 AM   
christine1


Posts: 6155
Joined: 12/15/2007
From: i'm headed to HIM...
Status: offline 		when i was married, (quite unhappily for the most part), my husband would introduce us as..."hello, my name is (dick), and this is my wife", i'd chime in and say, "my name is Christine".  i wasn't happy being his extension because i didn't like or respect him and i didnt' want to be seen in the same light that i saw him in.  i know that strangers would have no way of knowing any of this and i might have come across as bitchy when i spoke up and mentioned my name, but i'm okay with that.

i think being an extension of someone is fine, but i need to want to be in that position.  i need to respect the "head-end" so to speak. 

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: An extension of................... - 8/23/2008 7:21:11 AM   
Paulnz


Posts: 411
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: christine1

when i was married, (quite unhappily for the most part), my husband would introduce us as..."hello, my name is (dick), and this is my wife", i'd chime in and say, "my name is Christine".  i wasn't happy being his extension because i didn't like or respect him and i didnt' want to be seen in the same light that i saw him in.  i know that strangers would have no way of knowing any of this and i might have come across as bitchy when i spoke up and mentioned my name, but i'm okay with that.

i think being an extension of someone is fine, but i need to want to be in that position.  i need to respect the "head-end" so to speak. 


What your husband did was rude. In the same situation I would introduce you first " Hello, this is my wife Christine, my name is Paul. " This establishes the extension first, the name of the extension, and just in case they forget, the name of the primary - last." Think of it like holding the door, and the woman goes through first.


(in reply to christine1)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: An extension of................... - 8/23/2008 7:23:09 AM   
kallisto


Posts: 1185
Status: offline 		I've never had a problem with being an "estension".  I've been an "extension" of someone or something all my life.   I've been a daughter, mother, wife, sub, slave, employee, friend.  I've always gotten quite a thrill of being "connected" to someone.  That connection is what makes me who I am in the relationship.   Maybe what works for me is that I've always been known as "kallisto .... (the daughter, mother, wife, sub, slave, employee, friend).   I've never been robbed of my own identity when paired with another person in the relationship.   

(in reply to christine1)
Profile   Post #: 39
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