RE: The Best Laid Traps Of Conservatives and Con Men (Full Version)

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Alumbrado -> RE: The Best Laid Traps Of Conservatives and Con Men (8/23/2008 6:02:18 AM)

Your naivete about politics is either touching or unbelievable.



celticlord2112 -> RE: The Best Laid Traps Of Conservatives and Con Men (8/23/2008 6:37:15 AM)

quote:

Of course, the only intention of this legislation was to set a trap for a potential candidate for president, and had nothing at all to do with the sanctity of life. How could anyone be stupid enough to miss the real intent.

The intent of the legislation was rather explicitly stated by its advocates (Arkes, et al) as reversing what was seen as the "slippery slope" of Roe v. Wade.  It does that by setting a distinct philosophical trap by linking abortion procedures to infanticide.  And for pro-choice politicians, it is a definite trap--if they debate and oppose the issue, they become "Senator Infanticide", while if they support the issue they are going against their pro-life constituents.

The law I believe accomplishes some good by ensuring that babies born during botched abortions are not merely discarded with the trash.  However, to say that the legislation had only high-minded motivations backing it is at odds with the reality of legislative process.



bipolarber -> RE: The Best Laid Traps Of Conservatives and Con Men (8/23/2008 7:32:50 AM)

And in the end, if R v W were to get overturned, the only people who would be affected are the poor. The rich will be able to pack up, and spend a weekend in Canada, or in Europe where their "little problem" can be taken care of, and then they can come back from vacation, and pretend it never happened. Morals, it seems, are for little people.

It's great that you guys are arguing about all the little traps, the "gotcha" politics, like this is some kind of fucking Sunday quarterback version of American Idol. Maybe, if you were to wake up, you'd realize that what they are talking about is ripping away a woman's right to her own body.

If males were the ones who got pregnant, the right to an abortion would be a Constitutional right, not something to be argued over like a goddamned football game with an iffy call.



servantforuse -> RE: The Best Laid Traps Of Conservatives and Con Men (8/23/2008 1:38:45 PM)

Obamas vote had nothing to do with a womans right to choose. It was about a babys right to get medical care after a botched abortion. Two very different things...



celticlord2112 -> RE: The Best Laid Traps Of Conservatives and Con Men (8/23/2008 1:49:49 PM)

quote:

And in the end, if R v W were to get overturned, the only people who would be affected are the poor

Damn shame this is not true.

Trivia question:  Abortions were legal in how many states before Roe v Wade?



ShreveportMaster -> RE: The Best Laid Traps Of Conservatives and Con Men (8/23/2008 1:54:04 PM)

 Quite so.
I'm all for a woman having the right to not get pregnant, and remain in control of her own body. However... when we are discussing a child, and regardless of anyone's personal stance on the issue of abortion, once born, legally it is a child;
it is not in any way her choice, or her body that is at issue anymore.

                                                                                                           Shreve



atursvcMaam -> RE: The Best Laid Traps Of Conservatives and Con Men (8/23/2008 11:33:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Your naivete about politics is either touching or unbelievable.


Awww, thanks.



Hippiekinkster -> RE: The Best Laid Traps Of Conservatives and Con Men (8/24/2008 12:01:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

And in the end, if R v W were to get overturned, the only people who would be affected are the poor

Damn shame this is not true.

Trivia question:  Abortions were legal in how many states before Roe v Wade?


Trivia question: How many women died from botched back-alley coathanger/no anaesthesia/unsterile conditions/unqualified "doctor" abortions before Roe v Wade?



celticlord2112 -> RE: The Best Laid Traps Of Conservatives and Con Men (8/24/2008 11:35:08 AM)

There are no reliable records to answer your question with anything resembling accuracy.  The National Abortion Federation asserts that there were 1.2 million illegal abortions per year before Roe v. Wade, and "many thousands" of women were harmed by these procedures, but even they acknowledge the lack of reliable data on the point.  The answer to your question is simply: the number is unknown.

My question to you, however, has very reliable data on point--uncontestable historical records of state legislatures.  Will you answer the question?



Thadius -> RE: The Best Laid Traps Of Conservatives and Con Men (8/24/2008 2:30:46 PM)

My question is much simpler.  How is a baby that is outside of the woman, breathing on its own, and detached from the umbilical cord a risk to the mother's health?



farglebargle -> RE: The Best Laid Traps Of Conservatives and Con Men (8/24/2008 5:38:08 PM)

"Who Owns The Baby" is the only important question.

Property Rights == Freedom and Liberty.

If the Baby is the State's Property, then the State gets to tell people how it's property is treated.

If the Baby is the Mother's Property, then SHE gets to determine how HER property is treated.




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