Mental vs. Emotional

Mental vs. Emotional (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion

Message

brighthorizens -> Mental vs. Emotional (11/23/2005 2:35:12 AM)
So I'm on this kick where I think it's time for me to sit down and really think about all the different aspects of BDSM. What does each mean to me? What am I willing to give up in each area? What are my limits in each area? So while trying to come up with my list I got to Mental submission and Emotional submission. I spent hours trying to come up with the difference. I'm sure there's a difference there somewhere. How do you all define the two?

sweetpettjenny -> RE: Mental vs. Emotional (11/23/2005 3:12:13 AM)
i find Mental to be the deep connection as a look he gives and id know what he wanted..emotional is the feelings behind what is done, love, fear, etc.. thats how i see it. Anyways the lifestyle to me is driven on 90% mental 10% physical and backs it with my emotions 100%

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Mental vs. Emotional (11/23/2005 5:59:19 AM)
I have no idea what emotional submission is. I've never met a slave who could transfer total authority over their feelings to another. I don't really know any dominants who care if they can control feelings to any severe extent. They like being able to control your feelings in a scene, they like knowing you're doing well and happy in the relationship as a whole, they like knowing they are a source of much happiness and fulfillment for you. But they can't really MAKE you feel something, or flick a switch and change it all. If it's not there, it's not there. And it doesn't need to be- as long as you are obeying. Mental submission I suppose would be forging perspectives and self-discipline within yourself to be able to obey, communicate and simply operate better overall.

plantlady64 -> RE: Mental vs. Emotional (11/23/2005 6:23:00 AM)
Hello There, To me mental submission is when I do something I'd prefer not to do, or push myself to the limits of what I can physically accomplish. It's when I use my mind to control my actions and not my feelings. It's perseverance. Emotional submission is when I center on my Masters wants and desires It's when I feel my happiness depends on pleasing him and being found acceptable under his will. It's recognizing my well being belongs to, and is brought through my Master's joy. Sincerely, sub suzanne

Rover -> RE: Mental vs. Emotional (11/23/2005 6:34:14 AM)
I'm pretty much inclined to agree with LA. People can't control their own emotions (they CAN control how they act upon them), so I have no idea how someone else could control them. As for "mental submission", I'd venture to say that all submission is (at some level) mental submission. Some people seem determined to make a rather simple concept (Dominance & submission) increasingly complicated. Often, I speculate about the motivations of some (not all) of these people. It reminds me of the "Seven Levels Of Submission" that started floating around the internet some years ago, that seemingly established a "heirarchy" of submission (the cynic in me wonders about the motivation of such things.... is it so some can claim to be "better" or "more" than others?). When seven levels was no longer sufficient, there became the "Nine Levels of Submission". Last I saw was the "Twelve Levels of Submission" (my stomach can no longer tolerate such drivel, so for all I know they may be up to the "Twenty-One Levels of Submission"). In closing I'll share a quote one of my previous submissives was rather fond of saying (though I'm not sure if she's the author, or found it elsewhere): "Submitting one's body is comparatively easy. The hard part is in the submission of one's will." Now that's "mental submission" to me. John

Mercnbeth -> RE: Mental vs. Emotional (11/23/2005 6:53:19 AM)
bright, I don't need/want emotional submission. Emotional commitment however is an essential element of deeply rooted trust which is essential. As far as the mental aspect the "textbook" that I studied a long time ago and still use as a reference is George Orwell's 1984. The book defines mental submission as the inability to conceive disobedience. It also, in one very intense scene, shows how it's possible that 2+2 can equal 5 if 'Master' says it's so.

starshineowned -> RE: Mental vs. Emotional (11/23/2005 7:10:39 AM)
quote: The book defines mental submission as the inability to conceive disobedience. Greetings..~smiles~ Mercnbeth: Very interesting definition there. By chance does it explain wether the inability to conceive is from a mentality of "oh no, I just couldn't ever even think of being disobedient" or from a mental state of not being able to grasp/understand that they have been disobedient (either willful or not)..as in they are able in their minds to always "justify" their actions? starshine Happy slave of Master Delvin

Mercnbeth -> RE: Mental vs. Emotional (11/23/2005 7:43:55 AM)
quote: By chance does it explain whether the inability to conceive is from a mentality of "oh no, I just couldn't ever even think of being disobedient" or from a mental state of not being able to grasp/understand that they have been disobedient (either willful or not)..as in they are able in their minds to always "justify" their actions? Happy slave of Delvin, Neither. At first it comes from just wanting to avoid pain/punishment. As the "Master" points out in the story, it's not good enough. Ultimately it comes from "love", and it's comes from not wanting to disappoint "Master" risking not punishment, but the loss of love. By purging all thought of disobedience the "love" becomes pure. In the story, the slave's ultimate goal is to be killed once he achieves this level of perfection so that his last thoughts are of his love for his "Master" (Big Brother). The mental training has as its goal for obedience to be as automatic as an eye blink or a heart beat. Having the thought "oh no, I just couldn't ever even think of...." would indicate that you had the thought. The "thought" is disobedience. In the book the "Thought Police" enforce the concept. Interestingly in the book, only "intelligent" citizens were accountable to this standard. I always wanted to make a presentation or write a paper on the subject of mental domination using the Orwellian standard as described by this book. It would make for an interesting study. Now before I get in trouble. I offer the book as an answer to the question. I see it as an example and training guide, but in my opinion having an automaton slave would be boring. Where is the "domination" where is the submission, if ALL decision making is purged? The training may be "fun", but I have no desire to ultimately be with a robot. However I believe the techniques can be used to expand or overcome limits, and help any dominant mold his/her slave into his ideal image. I enjoy beth's spirit and would never want it purged. But there were and are some things that she had to "get her mind right" about. To accomplish those goals, I keep the Orwellian method in mind. *Edited because spell check is stupid and can't find my grammar or usage errors!*

starshineowned -> RE: Mental vs. Emotional (11/23/2005 7:55:05 AM)
Mercnbeth: Thankyou for the information, and in agreement on the idea's of useage and to limited beneficial only degree's. Well Wishes starshine Happy slave of Master Delvin

Rover -> RE: Mental vs. Emotional (11/23/2005 8:04:32 AM)
quote: The mental training has as its goal for obedience to be as automatic as an eye blink or a heart beat. Having the thought "oh no, I just couldn't ever even think of...." would indicate that you had the thought. The "thought" is disobedience. In the parlance of some forms of TPE relationships, is not the (claimed) objective exactly that sort of automatic obedience? Do they not consider the "thought" as a conscious decision to submit that should not be present in slaves? Would not the "oh no, I just couldn't ever even think of...." constitute a limit? Just continuing with the theoretical application of fictional literature to real time relationships. John

veronicaofML -> RE: Mental vs. Emotional (11/23/2005 8:31:21 AM)
define the 2? ok ptsd and ocd-------- i put it all in compartments and my mental is figuring logic and reasoning emotional is what i feel in my gut

starshineowned -> RE: Mental vs. Emotional (11/23/2005 8:35:28 AM)
quote: In the parlance of some forms of TPE relationships, is not the (claimed) objective exactly that sort of automatic obedience? Do they not consider the "thought" as a conscious decision to submit that should not be present in slaves? Would not the "oh no, I just couldn't ever even think of...." constitute a limit? Yes probably Rover Sir..pretty much the same as saying "oh no, I couldn't ever even think of eating chocolate..it would give me pimples, and make me fat, and and and.. Again common sense if anything should prevail. In the last 11 yrs of living, listening, reading..I've yet to come across anyone who has wanted or was staunch dead set in having a thoughtless, automated slave. I've seen and heard the contrary from those living in a TPE or TCE..that automation would be in due time boring, and unfullfilling. Even with the best of brainwashing techniques it would be I think impossible to remove All thoughts. Thoughts in themselves do not always produce or prevent action conscious or subconscious. starshine Happy slave of Master Delvin

Rover -> RE: Mental vs. Emotional (11/23/2005 8:41:45 AM)
So a conscious thought on the part of a submissive is "deciding whether or not to submit with each request" while a conscious thought on the part of a Gorean slave is just a passing thought? Ooooooookay. John

starshineowned -> RE: Mental vs. Emotional (11/23/2005 9:46:48 AM)
quote: So a conscious thought on the part of a submissive is "deciding whether or not to submit with each request" while a conscious thought on the part of a Gorean slave is just a passing thought? Erm..is there a reason why you felt compelled to use "Gorean slave" and not just "slave"? Not even sure what it is this quote was even intended to ask, verify, justify, relate. Orwell's book is not the end all be all..all knowing..lol ..It's simply a perspective view of one man. You can take it and use it how ever you wish naturally. I can't really with good conscious answer as to your quote. What I stated already regarding submissive women in a relationship, and slaves in a relationship is based only on a very large mutual base agreement by those who claim to be submissive or slaves as to their take on themselves in a relationship. I am neither submissive ..nor am I a Gorean slave but hope they will speak in answer to your question, if there even was one. starshine Happy slave of Master Delvin

Mercnbeth -> RE: Mental vs. Emotional (11/23/2005 9:59:46 AM)
quote: In the parlance of some forms of TPE relationships, is not the (claimed) objective exactly that sort of automatic obedience? Do they not consider the "thought" as a conscious decision to submit that should not be present in slaves? Would not the "oh no, I just couldn't ever even think of...." constitute a limit? John, Your question contains the answer. A "claimed" objective needs to be fleshed out with specifics. Are their some aspects of obedience that I want and require to be "automatic" - YES. However the overall relationship is not and should not be based upon automated expectation of behaviors. "Come here slave and please your Master"; is an order with no expectation of thought. "slave, go shopping for this weeks groceries"; gets the same response, but I wouldn't not want or expect to get a phone call as she picked up each item. Do I fall into your definition of TPE? Taken to it's ultimate, the TPE sub should as permission to breath or have a heartbeat. Not only pragmatically impractical, but totally appealing. If you run into a relationship that represents TPE to the point where the slave/submission is incapable of functioning without specific approval by the owner/Dom; ask for clarification. There are many things that require my permission before beth is allowed to do them that represent minutia and "micro-management". There are other things that I permit her that lifestyle "authorities" would find very "un-Domly". Referring back to the OP, any source that helps accomplish a personal goal can be used as a reference and applied. It doesn't require complete and absolute mimicry. Personal objectives, preferences, likes/dislikes, must ultimately be included. The most difficult part is the search for someone who has similar likes/dislikes, and whose goals and preferences are complimentary and compatible. This occurs prior to any training, Orwellian, or Pavlovian. If it was only square pegs needing to be molded into round holes the process would be relatively simple. Relationships are much more polyhedron, and sometimes people get into them without even knowing how many sides the other person has or even how many they have. There is as much work needed to identify yourself before starting the task of seeking another. Without knowing the shape of the hole, if you just started whittling away at some point you get frustrated and use a hammer; at which point both the hole and the peg suffer damage.

Rover -> RE: Mental vs. Emotional (11/23/2005 10:02:32 AM)
I apologize that my time to reply is limited. Understand that I have not expressed "my definition of TPE", though it is that of (many?) others as expressed in other threads. John

candystripper -> RE: Mental vs. Emotional (11/23/2005 3:09:52 PM)
i know i will need to adjust many attitudes and reflexive acts when i finally find Him; and i assume He will provide guidance. i have struggled with the notion that i must retain the acoutrements of self-sufficieny forever, even while depending on Him to any degree, even emotional. Relationships end; people die. i cannot turn responsibility for my basic needs over to Him but i can submit in emotionally fulfilling ways....and i would hope/expect that would be mutually fulfilling. i can see my One setting the order of my day; making me excersise, etc., but i cannot see myself signing off on a financial obligation i cannot meet on my own. candystripper

fyreredsub -> RE: Mental vs. Emotional (11/23/2005 4:38:34 PM)
emotional submission to me is trusting another and allowing them into your thoughts and feelings.[ie,wants to please, loves someone etc....] mental submission (which also includes trusting another so completely)is allowing another to control you and giving them all of you. [(think pavlov's training/conditioning). not disobeying] PS i do so love your siggie brighthorizons. [:)]

jamesthehumanrug -> RE: Mental vs. Emotional (11/24/2005 3:16:15 PM)
greetings brig,happy thanksgiving mental or emotional submition, if they are different ;they have one thing in common: if someone takesover one ,or the ,other; they own you. question is ;do you want this specific-person ,to have, either....

slavejali -> RE: Mental vs. Emotional (11/24/2005 3:20:01 PM)
has anyone ever had one emotion that hasnt sprung from a mental thought or response? Or, how many corriders of thought do our emotions lead us down? i think they go hand in hand.

Page: [1] 2 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.03125