Election year (Full Version)

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Termyn8or -> Election year (8/25/2008 9:39:17 AM)

I can't stand it. It's like people are watching a sporting event, akin to a pony show. "See how that pony twitched his ear ?".

Thing is, there will be very little change after the inauguration, if it's McCain he will find that he can't occupy Iraq for as long as he would like, if it's Obama he will find that he cannot pull out as quickly as he would like.

On the issues that big money puts before us using the media, there will be alot less difference than people think. On the really important issues, like outsourcing our jobs to foreign countries, very little will be done. That is because it can't be done.

Wanna know why ? The profits a publicly traded corporation makes are dependant on outsourcing. That's where people's retirement benefits come from. Your plasma TV is made in China. I don't care if it says RCA (which INVENTED color TV), Magnavox or Zenith on it, it is a Funai or a Xi Shuei or who the heck knows. They will make it with whatever name you want on it, in fact there have been cases of actually counterfeiting electronics. This was in the eighties ! There was a whole slew of Harmon Kardon audio products that were not them at all, but someone ordered them made with that name on them.

Let's say we are a technological leader in the world and can build a plasma TV. Set up a factory, on top of millions in permits, you have all kinds of codes and environmental regulations with which to comply. Then you have to grease the city to get prompt inspections. Even if the construction company uses illegal immigrants for labor, they are charging you top buck.

Then you are likely to have to buy much of the equipment from China or who knows because most of it is not made here anymore. While that is not totally bad, it is not good. What's more if you could get it here it would cost at least twice as much.

By the time you have you legal and accounting staff assembled, you have assumed a constant financial load, and that remains steady if you are lucky and they are good.

Once you get your factory built, get all the equipment you need and are ready to start hiring people, you find some of them, more than you expected, can barely read their diploma. After a bunch of turnovers of employees you finally give in and start a remedial reading school for the employees. Then you find that some of them are borderline autistic, or dyslexic, something that should have been dealt with when they were five years old not when they are twenty five !

Then the union organizers come, and you are not allowed to shoot them. [I personally know two people who would have been better off if their jobs had not become unionized]

Your nice plasma TV you are all happy with that cost you $3,500, if you want to buy a domestic product get ready to shell out about $8,000. That is only if everything goes right and the management of the manufacturing firm is extremely competent. I mean that they made all the right decisions. It is really the best they can do.

The pony show really is sickening. Neither one of these major candidates would have any clue whatsoever how to solve these problems. We need a firm manufacturing base in this country to start paying on this debt, and to help the real value of the dollar. We need to build things that sell in the millions to average people. Sure we build great bombs and a few other things, but those are not purchased in the millions.

We need to make things here that don't cost thirty six million dollars, things that the people buy. The main problem is that we don't. They don't understand that it is easier to get a dollar from a million people than it is to get a million dollars from one.

If things keep up the way they're going it is going to cost more to ship the currency to China than it does to ship their goods here. We need to change the rend, we need to make the US an attractive manufacturing environment.

If you have the means, forward this to your favorite politicians. I would really like to hear what they have to say.

T




celticlord2112 -> RE: Election year (8/25/2008 9:43:26 AM)

So what's your solution?

What's your grand proposal to change the problem?




Raechard -> RE: Election year (8/25/2008 10:04:36 AM)

This is typically the problem with most political cycles, they are too short to have any real effect on long term problems. The other problem is the world changes in four years and your policies are then four years out of step with what is required in the here and now.

People don’t care so much about left and right as they do economic competence but which politician has any say in those long term policies that have already been put in place years before they reach office? The only thing you can really count on and work off of is the fact change in general brings about a sense of optimism that feeds through the economy.
 
Here in the UK the labour government haven’t achieved half the things they had promised to do and if the conservatives get in I know it will be more of the same and they will ride off of the wind of change because every administration has its early years of optimism at wanting to change all the things it sees as wrong with the world but then the reality of government hits them and towards the end they lose their way and opposition points out their flaws. It’s easy to be in opposition because your mistakes are theoretical and not actual.
 
That is why I don’t vote for people, I vote against them. I get rid of people that are stagnating in their positions and replace them with those eager energetic types.  The only difference in the people in charge is the physiological effect a brand new administration brings about in the public and private sector work force.  It’s not like the civil servants change from one government to the next and they are the ones doing most of the work of implementing policy.




Termyn8or -> RE: Election year (8/25/2008 12:12:57 PM)

CL : "So what's your solution?

What's your grand proposal to change the problem? "

That is a very good question and has driven me into deep thought. I think very fast, but something like this is very complex.

On this short notice I come up with this. "Dirty zones". Areas of this country where all regulation is relaxed, not completely, but let's say waivers of some type. If you think the plasma TV made in China produced any less pollution than one that would be made in the US, I'd like to hear the logic behind it. Thing is, if we produce it, the same net amount of pollution is produced, the difference is that the money is not exported.

The venue for the dirty zone would be selected based on geography, and placed when it would do the most minimal harm to our internal environment. Sure we might pollute the oceans, but if we don't somebody else will. We are in reality, we have a population to feed, to educate and to put to work.

We can be better than China, put all the dirty zones where the ports of entry are, the transportation system is already setup for it. There still have to be some environmental regulations, but the system they put in place that impelled companies to buy and sell "credits" among one another did nothing for us. All it did was suck more money from the consumer/taxpayer.

I was going to say to put in an advanced highway, or possibly even a rail transportation system to the dirty zones, but using areas nearby current ports of entry would work out in many cases. If totally new dirty zones are established, transportation must be considered.

However, to transport cargo over a thousand miles of road is cheaper than bringing it in a boat across the Atlantic. What's more, we should look into rail transport. I know they are already doing it, but I mean into the dirty zones. The railroad has not been expanded much lately.

People complain about trucks, not realizing that everything they buy comes on a truck, even if they buy a truck it came in on a truck, at least to the dealer. An efficient rail system means that they manufacture the products, ship them on a truck to the railroad, another truck picks it up from the railroad. You might have a hundred miles on the road. Think if that truck had to drive all the way from CA to NJ.

There is one fact about even our old archaic rail system, steel wheels on steel rails act pretty much like ball bearings, not so with tires. I don't care how much air you put in a tire it still deflects, which creates drag.

I also think we should work on coal fired rail technology. Not that it is yet, but it could be. Water and coal. The train moves, it produces pollution but it spreads it around because it is moving. We have plenty of coal and seem to have enough water, and with modern technology, a deisel could be used for some times in operation, but like I said about putting an electric motor/generator in the transmission of a car, it would switch over once it got up to running speed. Even the coal and water could be dispensed electronically.

The technology exists for us to become self sufficient once again, at least in part. I think that should be our first goal, rather than taking over the world, or whatever they are trying to do.

That's the best I can do right now. The financial problems are a big shit sandwich, and like it or not we are all going to have to take a bite. We are not getting out of this without sacrifice, on a personal level. It is still better to do it when when we can, instead of when we have to.

The main point is, if we continue to import at the rate we do, no solution will work.

That's all for now, I will expound on it later.

T




Raechard -> RE: Election year (8/25/2008 12:38:35 PM)

 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
On this short notice I come up with this. "Dirty zones". Areas of this country where all regulation is relaxed, not completely, but let's say waivers of some type.

Whose doorstep becomes one of those zones, I'm not voting for that policy in case it's mine.
quote:


We can be better than China, put all the dirty zones where the ports of entry are, the transportation system is already setup for it. There still have to be some environmental regulations, but the system they put in place that impelled companies to buy and sell "credits" among one another did nothing for us. All it did was suck more money from the consumer/taxpayer.

Why not re-gear your industries towards the service sector rather than manufacturing? You can't beat China unless you are planning on having sweat shops as part of your employment policies.
quote:


I also think we should work on coal fired rail technology. Not that it is yet, but it could be. Water and coal. The train moves, it produces pollution but it spreads it around because it is moving. We have plenty of coal and seem to have enough water, and with modern technology, a deisel could be used for some times in operation, but like I said about putting an electric motor/generator in the transmission of a car, it would switch over once it got up to running speed. Even the coal and water could be dispensed electronically.

Why not just rely on electric power derived from nuclear? Coal seems a bit backwards looking and the air quality would suffer from a huge increase in particulates. Just look at the air quality reports for the post industrial cities of Europe when they relied heavily on coal. Uranium can be sourced from stable countries such as the US, Canada and Australia.




popeye1250 -> RE: Election year (8/25/2008 12:57:06 PM)

Term, I agree.
A while back Obama was at an event and simply took off his jacket and the lemmings began cheering wildly! lol!
What Simpletons!
And, I don't want to hear what the candidates "want to do," *THEY* need to *LISTEN* to the American People and do what WE want them to do!
They've got it exactly backwards!
We're not a dictatorship where *one person* decides what 300 million people are going to do.
Our government and the people in it serve at our pleasure and they need start acting that way again!




Termyn8or -> RE: Election year (8/25/2008 1:00:52 PM)

Raech, I don't think so. I know what a mess this plan would make, be we have to do what we have to do. There is another option, just let the dollar collapse completely and there will be almost no oil and therefore almost no gasoline and you haven't seen anything yet in the way of prices. When (I did not say if) the dollar goes down fifty percent, even if the price of crude remains constant you will see prices that make your head spin.

The fact of the matter is if you play the game with cheaters and you don't cheat, you lose. You want to lose ?

Read up on environmental treaties, you will find certain countries exempt. Well if we are exempt from international law and prosecution for war crimes, why not pollute a bit and get the economy back on track ?

I don't see any other way.

T

edited to add : If you see ANY other way to get us out of this mess, please come forward with it.

T




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