Who's in control?

Who's in control? (Full Version)

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IvyMorgan -> Who's in control? (8/25/2008 10:45:48 AM)
I was off to a munch yesterday, and travelling up, I was asked by a friend of mine, did I think submissives had more control in a scene than was often thought. I thought about it for all of a few seconds and then gave the same answer I always have. A submissive (and I'm using this term to apply to whomever is on the "bottom" in a given moment) is always the one in ultimate control. He asked why, and I said... "Either the dominant is playing only as far as the submissive can take, so the submissive is in control, you rarely if ever hear dominants saying 'I want to/I did play as hard and as far and as long as I liked, screw the sub' whilst you tend to always hear, 'I watch my sub carefully and go only as far as they can take', 'my slave doesn't have a safeword, but I only push her as far as she can go' and so on. So those subs are in control in a round about way. Or you have a submissive with a scripted/negotiated scene, for example in public. Think of what percentage of public scenes end in a safe word... 50%, higher? In those scenarios, there's no pretense, the submissive is drawing the line of what goes and what doesn't. How many times does a dominant safeword, compared to a sub? Either a scene stops cos a sub says so directly, or because the dominant deems the sub has had enough, or because both have reached the place where they want to go. The submissive is always in control." He agreed, but, I'm wondering if anyone else does? Who is in control of your "play" relationship? When you take it apart, I mean.

littlesarbonn -> RE: Who's in control? (8/25/2008 10:54:18 AM)
For me, this is where my differences in my definitions of submissive and slave come into play. Once I've relinquished that initial decision, she's in control from that point forward. Sure, people can argue semantics all they want and can make claims that "you can leave at any time" but people tend to forget that leaving is not the essence of control. It's the end. If I leave, there wasn't any control to begin with, and once I've made that decision to leave, I have no more control than I did before I left. But what gets missed here is that SHE can leave, too. It's not just the submissive's perogative to leave, but either member can end the relationship and that's not control. That's the end of a relationship, which means the idea of control does not exist at that particular time. No one then has control. However, while I'm in a relationship with a dominant woman, she has complete control over me. That's our agreement. If I'm stupid enough to walk away from it, then that means the relationship is over, and NO ONE has control. It doesn't empower me in any way.

LaTigresse -> RE: Who's in control? (8/25/2008 10:56:44 AM)
In my house, after they are "owned" I am. Keep in mind that I feel this is a very different situation than the one you describe. What you are describing isn't dominance and submission, to ME it is topping and bottoming. Not wrong or right, just different.

UmbraDomina -> RE: Who's in control? (8/25/2008 10:58:54 AM)
I am in control of my releationship. We play when I wish to play, we play becouse I am a sadist and enjoy drawing blood, and hearing him scream. He offers his body as my canvas, he takes what I give as a matter of pride in his ablity to serve me. He has no safe words, no negotiation, he has no say in the way I play, what I choose to use on him, he has no limits ( he instead is protected only by my own limits) I often push him further then he would like or that he thinks he can go, it is my choice to do so, he is my slave, my property. His only option in any way is to walk away from the releationship. Alexandra ~

Missokyst -> RE: Who's in control? (8/25/2008 11:02:16 AM)
I find once you are bound and restrained you better hope you made a good choice in who you trust. The one in control may be the sub in their choice. But ultimately what happens once you are at someones mercy is in their hands. Kyst

WhiplashSmile2 -> RE: Who's in control? (8/25/2008 11:40:36 AM)
My thoughts on the matter. Both Parties are in control of what is going on. The control is somewhat different and varied between top/bottom, Dom/sub..etc.. Still none the less, both people are in control of things. You have to be in control of yourself inorder to pass it along to your partner. There is always self control, control over play, control of maintaining submission level, physical control.... Control is on many different levels. The conversation you had with your friend just addressed some valid levels and areas. Anyways, both people are in control. There are some cases where this does not fully apply as well. Some people have more extreme D/s or topping/bottoming going on. Edge playing, or even having relationships that are on the Edge.

thetammyjo -> RE: Who's in control? (8/25/2008 11:41:25 AM)
The submissive always has the control... after all she/he is only submitting for a certain period of time. I don't honestly think any adult human being can function very well and be submissive 7/24/365. However if you have both taken the time to negotiate well and make a good choice neither of you really has the control. You've come together because you have enough in common. Same for owners and slaves. By that time you've gotten to know each other so well that if the owner stops or only goes so far, it's because she only wants to go so far. Don't assume that comments such as "I only take my sub as far as she can go" means that the owner or even dominant hasn't made the decision. At GLLA 7 Saturday night we had an impromptu discussion at the end of one of my readings and some folks seemed a bit horrified by the fact that I'm a sadist while my slave is not a masochist so he does indeed suffer when we do SM. We do SM when I feel the urge he just happens to have wisely chosen a woman to give his life to whom does not require a lot to satisfy her sadistic urges. That's a sign of how smart he was not how much control he has. If you take the time to analyze every dynamic you will soon discover that the control, the power, even the authority we all talk about frankly are secondary to what we each must do to survive and hopefully thrive in life.

softpjOS -> RE: Who's in control? (8/25/2008 11:46:32 AM)
My feelings are that any Dominant that finds any value in their sub/slave will stop a scene before it goes "too far" based on Their wishes, not necessarily that of the sub. I mean, sure Mistress could beat me until I couldn't walk the next day, and i would probably take it lol, however, what good would i be to Her if i couldn't serve after the fact? In our relationship, we both have limits. One of Hers being that no play/scene will be taken to the point that it will interfere with my service to Her. Only twice that i can think of in almost 6 years has She heard my safeword, otherwise She decides when it is time to stop. Or.. as the case this past weekend, when Mistress allowed another Dommes to spank me for my birthday, the Dominant simply gets tired and gives up on getting me to call red. [sm=angel.gif] giggles and hopes a certain Someone doesn't read that! On the other hand, had Someone else joined in... i'm quite certain the outcome would have been a bit different [sm=domme.gif]

Daddyssweetpea -> RE: Who's in control? (8/25/2008 11:48:14 AM)
Daddy pays careful attention to what i need, he listens to what i have to say and he strives to give me what i need to be a good and obedient girl, but ultimately he's in control because he is the one who decides what that is. i may ask, beg, plead, suggest, etc, but i may not decide. That is for him to do. i have a voice, but it may be overridden. Daddy has control over me, and that is how i like it to be. That is the beauty of what we have, that i can place myself under his control with complete trust and willingness.

UmbraDomina -> RE: Who's in control? (8/25/2008 11:51:04 AM)
laughs and waves at PJ I still owe you one VEG Alexandra ~

softpjOS -> RE: Who's in control? (8/25/2008 11:55:10 AM)
adds Ms Alexandra's "1" to her to-do list at the next wicked [8\|]

celticlord2112 -> RE: Who's in control? (8/25/2008 12:09:36 PM)
Each person is in control of himself or herself. No one has any control beyond himself or herself. Control of others is always an illusion.

CreativeDominant -> RE: Who's in control? (8/25/2008 12:15:40 PM)
I am in agreement with LaT on this one. Addressing play: When I've done casual play, the safewords were clarified. Her wants and desires were discussed along with mine and a scenario was agreed to. I then played to her limits so in those instances, she retained control...if nothing else, by use of the safeword. Now then, play with someone who is mine or who is interested in becoming mine would be more along the lines of my finding out what she liked and did not, where her limits were, and discussion of what I hope to achieve through play and the fact that what I hope to achieve can vary from one scene to the next. Also, when I am dealing with someone who is interested in being mine, I make it clear that they can suggest play and I may or may not go along with it but that if I suggest it, it will be done. She still retains the control of her safeword and her limits, but how I choose to play, how long I play, what is done, where it is done, when it is done, is all under my control. Once she is mine, I have found that many limits went away and safewords were rarely needed. If they had been needed too often, I would have stepped back and taken a hard look at her style of play and whether or not it suited mine as I am not changing who and what I am in terms of play except to add to what I do or improve it. Outside of play, she always has the control to end the relationship by walking away. But, as sarbonne noted, that is not control...that is ending something. Refusing to submit but not walking away changes the dynamic...but that is not what you are asking about.

Raechard -> RE: Who's in control? (8/25/2008 12:16:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 Control of others is always an illusion. We are all controlled by others unless you are strictly talking about the context in this here thread. Anyone who follows any kind of trend or popular fashion is controlled by popular culture. Anyone who refuses to follow a trend or fashion equally is controlled in an inverse way.

subtee -> RE: Who's in control? (8/25/2008 12:20:25 PM)
What if they just grab whatever they grab first and wear that? [Caveat: someone made me type that]

ExSteelAgain -> RE: Who's in control? (8/25/2008 12:37:58 PM)
It's a result of time letting the relationship evolve into something special. I have no doubt that most relationships begin with the submissive telling the Dominant what she can take and with him listening to her. But the ideal relationship has the submissive gradually become helpless to the Dominant. The surrender is gained over time and with trust, but once it finds a way to snap the lock closed, it is genuine and total. From then on, it’s up to the Dom when to let up even if she wants to please the Dom taking more. In an ideal relationship, the Dom will stop at the right time and it will work perfectly. If a submissive loses that relationship where she could trust and still be taken to the summit over and over, she won’t feel like she is in charge. She will be very much the submissive seeking HER Dom at all costs.

Raechard -> RE: Who's in control? (8/25/2008 12:42:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subtee What if they just grab whatever they grab first and wear that? [Caveat: someone made me type that] They end up going on a camping trip wearing a cocktail dress. [8\|]

subtee -> RE: Who's in control? (8/25/2008 12:46:40 PM)
Kinky....[;)] Pyrrsefanie would definitely spank me for that. ...it's worth considering...

Raechard -> RE: Who's in control? (8/25/2008 1:04:29 PM)
Indeed.

celticlord2112 -> RE: Who's in control? (8/25/2008 1:07:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raechard We are all controlled by others unless you are strictly talking about the context in this here thread. Anyone who follows any kind of trend or popular fashion is controlled by popular culture. Anyone who refuses to follow a trend or fashion equally is controlled in an inverse way. No. That is not control. That is choice.

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