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Free Will - 8/26/2008 4:14:25 AM

hotangel501

Posts: 3
Joined: 8/13/2008
Status: offline

I have a question. I have been into the FemDOM scene for a short time as a Domme.   I have seen and heard many Masters, and Domme comment on how they can 'break' anyone. Or they learned the 'old guard' style of training and can handle anyone.
    Who actually is in charge? Everyone has free will, and at any point a sub/slave can just walk away. Yet the Master or Domme feels they are running the scene. I find this very confusing.
    Thanks

Post #: 1

RE: Free Will - 8/26/2008 4:19:31 AM

Sylverdawn

Posts: 1123
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

All the games we play are consensual.. so yes.. free will.. you willingly surrender.. but surrender is surrender.. and some personalities become so interdependent that walking away is difficult.. furthermore.. its hard to walk away when your in bondage.. not only physical but emotional and mental as well..

SD

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Post #: 2

RE: Free Will - 8/26/2008 4:39:19 AM

Lashra

Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline

I don't break my subs/slaves, they come to me willing and wanting to serve or I don't want them. Yes I train them to serve me the way that I wish them too but, if they don't want to be there then they can walk out the door.

~Lashra

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“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

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Post #: 3

RE: Free Will - 8/26/2008 6:24:52 AM

chiaThePet

Posts: 2694
Joined: 2/4/2007
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And the whales.

Just sayin.

chia* (the pet)

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Post #: 4

RE: Free Will - 8/26/2008 8:41:11 AM

UmbraDomina

Posts: 491
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: SE Michigan
Status: offline

I don't break my toys...... I use them to my needs. I agree with Lashra's comments.

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Post #: 5

RE: Free Will - 8/26/2008 9:21:29 AM

MistressOfGa

Posts: 2929
Status: offline

~~FR~~

I am forever baffled by this. Why would anyone want to break their toys? Is there nothing about them that comes naturally that one would find appealing? I know that there are things about my potential sub that I adore, why would I want to change that about him?

Now, if you mean, breaking a sub as in "breaking old habits" (which we just had a thread about) then, yes. I see this as behavioral modification. Like I said before, it is hard to break a habit that may have been encouraged by their first Mistress, or their parents (But you detest) But it certainly is doable.

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Post #: 6

RE: Free Will - 8/26/2008 9:40:31 AM

CallaFirestormBW

Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
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'"Breaking" a servant' is never a term you'll hear from me. I -train- servants and provide opportunities for them to learn a discipline of service or other particular disciplines like pony training, fireplay training, behavior as a piercing/branding canvas, etc... but the key, for me, is consensual acceptance, so there is no 'forcing' someone into a role that xhe is not suited to.

In the same way, I don't play "resistance" games -- when someone says "no" to me, I take it at face value. At that point, whatever was planned or started -stops-. Several individuals have come back with "but I didn't -mean- for you to really -stop-", to which my response is "then you shouldn't have said it."

I don't believe in 'breaking' -- to me, there is more value in guiding someone into understanding his or her own capacity to yield... when it is a voluntary thing, and that person actually -chooses- to lay hirself at your feet, that is ever so much more satisfying to me than having to fight with someone who doesn't want to be there, and use fear, pain, or torture to try to hold someone in a place that xhe doesn't want to be. (There are so many more enjoyable uses for torture on people who will actually get a -rush- out of it, and therefore enhance -my- enjoyment of it, after all... why waste it on someone who won't appreciate it.?!)

Calla Firestorm

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***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

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Post #: 7

RE: Free Will - 8/26/2008 12:50:02 PM

Venatrix

Posts: 2238
Joined: 11/28/2007
Status: offline

I suspect it's a lot of hot air spouted by people who are nothing more than poseurs. Remember the old saying: the talkers don't do, and the do-ers don't talk.

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Post #: 8

RE: Free Will - 8/26/2008 12:51:32 PM

LadyHibiscus

Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline

But Venatrix, I AM a poser---the last two guys I turned down for dates TOLD me so!

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Post #: 9

RE: Free Will - 8/26/2008 1:05:59 PM

Venatrix

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

But Venatrix, I AM a poser---the last two guys I turned down for dates TOLD me so!

Oh, well, if two guys you turned down for dates said so, it must be true.

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Post #: 10

RE: Free Will - 8/26/2008 1:07:03 PM

LadyHibiscus

Posts: 27124
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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Venatrix

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

But Venatrix, I AM a poser---the last two guys I turned down for dates TOLD me so!

Oh, well, if two guys you turned down for dates said so, it must be true.

Well, yeah! Don't we all get our self image from strangers on teh interwebs?

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Post #: 11

RE: Free Will - 8/26/2008 1:36:43 PM

SylvereApLeanan

Posts: 8275
Joined: 11/1/2007
From: Hell
Status: offline

My girl has free will -- she chooses to obey or she chooses to leave the relationship. I don't care for the sort of dominance game in which the s-type constantly tests my boundaries and patience. My girl has a smart mouth at times and can be bratty. I have a dry, sarcastic sense of humor so I often find it amusing. When I don't, I simply don't tolerate it. She occasionally tries to wheedle me into granting permission for her to go against my instructions when she's had a trying day. It doesn't happen. She likes the fact that I am in charge and will not allow her to get away with serving only when it's convenient so she chooses to stay. There's no "breaking" involved; it's a symbiotic relationship.

Does that answer your question?

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Post #: 12

RE: Free Will - 8/26/2008 2:39:00 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

I agree with the others. The term "breaking" someone isn't one that I use.

Oddly enough, it has to do more with free will than a lot of people want to recognize. It's that same free will that makes the whole experience better. The fact that someone has free will, and yet choses to serve, makes the whole thing so much more rewarding. I don't want to drag someone kicking and screaming into submission. I want them to submit to Me *because* it's the choice they have made.

This is just My personal style, of course, but this has been something that I have been talking about a lot lately, so I'll expand a bit. What has always worked best for Me is allowing a person to fall into the paces as a submissive naturally. It's not something that should have to be a struggle. I think most people would be surprised at how much a submissive is fulfilled by certain things that reinforce a dynamic. Just as an example, even a person who isn't familiar with kneeling, might find that such a simple act can really speak to them. It's something most people wouldn't do as a general habit, until they get the opportunity to express themselves that way. Before they know it, they actually crave doing it because it speaks to them. They realize that it makes them happy, not just for the person they are kneeling in front of, but also for themselves.

I hope the rambling makes sense.

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Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

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Post #: 13

RE: Free Will - 8/26/2008 3:19:58 PM

MizSexyVixen

Posts: 137
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

I so wish "breaking" was a mere ideological concept that has never employed. Not true.

There are dominants (I would never say they are good ones) who seek to "break" a new sub/slave. My experience has been this is a physical breaking, though I am sure mental breaking does occur.

Why would someone do such a thing? To me, it's a quick fix...the easy road to surrender. It will never last IMO.

Forcing someone to surrender takes away that person's ability to choose, and as such, is worthless to me.

I would much rather spend my time engendering a desire to surrender...

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Post #: 14

RE: Free Will - 8/26/2008 5:01:33 PM

Untouched1282

Posts: 142
Joined: 2/12/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MizSexyVixen

I so wish "breaking" was a mere ideological concept that has never employed. Not true.

There are dominants (I would never say they are good ones) who seek to "break" a new sub/slave. My experience has been this is a physical breaking, though I am sure mental breaking does occur.

Why would someone do such a thing? To me, it's a quick fix...the easy road to surrender. It will never last IMO.

Forcing someone to surrender takes away that person's ability to choose, and as such, is worthless to me.

I would much rather spend my time engendering a desire to surrender...

That's still not "breaking". They have a choice, their body simply decides its not in its best interest to disagree. It's conditioning, yes, but not breaking. It's survival.

< Message edited by Untouched1282 -- 8/26/2008 5:02:05 PM >

(in reply to MizSexyVixen)

Post #: 15

RE: Free Will - 8/26/2008 5:07:34 PM

RumpusParable

Posts: 1923
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: NYC now!
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hotangel501

I have a question. I have been into the FemDOM scene for a short time as a Domme. I have seen and heard many Masters, and Domme comment on how they can 'break' anyone. Or they learned the 'old guard' style of training and can handle anyone.
Who actually is in charge? Everyone has free will, and at any point a sub/slave can just walk away. Yet the Master or Domme feels they are running the scene. I find this very confusing.
Thanks

I don't bother with "breaking" people and, frankly, find the idea to be boasting nonsense. I also don't play "uber-domme" in my relationships. I like to be myself and have my partners do the same.

Each partner has full right to walk away. They are both "in charge" of whether the relationship/interaction occurs and for how long. You comment that "at any point a sub/slave can just walk away"... so can the master. A relationship only exists so long as people agree to it (even when they're saying "I have no say").

*Within* the relationship, specific details of who is "in charge" of what is whatever is agreed, and varies greatly.

< Message edited by RumpusParable -- 8/26/2008 5:09:59 PM >

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Post #: 16

RE: Free Will - 8/26/2008 5:08:39 PM

Untouched1282

Posts: 142
Joined: 2/12/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RumpusParable

quote:

ORIGINAL: hotangel501

I have a question. I have been into the FemDOM scene for a short time as a Domme. I have seen and heard many Masters, and Domme comment on how they can 'break' anyone. Or they learned the 'old guard' style of training and can handle anyone.
Who actually is in charge? Everyone has free will, and at any point a sub/slave can just walk away. Yet the Master or Domme feels they are running the scene. I find this very confusing.
Thanks

Each partner has full right to walk away. They are both "in charge" of whether the relationship/interaction occurs and for how long. You comment that "at any point a sub/slave can just walk away"... so can the master. A relationship only exists so long as people agree to it (even when they're saying "I have no say").

*Within* the relationship, specific details of who is "in charge" of what is whatever is agreed, and varies greatly.

*EXTENDS MY HAND -- and my heart -- TO YOU* I couldn't have said it better myself :)

(in reply to RumpusParable)

Post #: 17

RE: Free Will - 8/26/2008 5:15:45 PM

faerytattoodgirl

Posts: 5824
Status: offline

they dont call me free willow for nothing

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Post #: 18

RE: Free Will - 8/26/2008 7:51:47 PM

MaamJay

Posts: 2101
Joined: 9/2/2005
Status: offline

I'm another who has no wish whatsoever to break anyone. It would be far too much trouble to put them back together again! However, if they have a bad habit that needs to be broken, then I am willing to put in the hard yards to help them do so, just as Master has broken me of a bad habit of rocking fairly violently when speaking to people!

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

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Post #: 19

RE: Free Will - 8/27/2008 8:37:13 AM

pixelslave

Posts: 1444
Joined: 8/19/2006
Status: offline

Hey, according to some, I'm already "broken" enough as it is!

I'm at least house broken anyway!

I wouldn't want to serve a woman who wanted to break me. I only desire to please my Mistress. From my view, if a woman feels she needs to break me and make me into someone else, then she needs to find that someone else. While I may want to improve myself and become a better man, that's just a part of me and I'm still the same person on the inside who simply wants to continue to grow.

Break me? I don't think so! Time to say "Warning Will Robinson!" *

- pixel

* For you younger folks, refers to an ancient TV show called "Lost in Space".

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Chivalry isn't dead! It's for those who have it in their hearts & are willing to be taught. It's a way of life, a code of honor; this one's armor still needs some polishing!

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Post #: 20

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