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RE: Curiousity about nuanced semantics. - 8/27/2008 5:02:14 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
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Status: offline 		And mostly rich white men at that.

People can say what they like about Thatcher, but the fact she was voted in as prime Minister here, had a remarkable effect on the number of women who wanted to get into parliament, and for the better in my opinion.

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RE: Curiousity about nuanced semantics. - 8/27/2008 5:15:38 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
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Status: offline 		Besides she was much more fun for PM question time....

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RE: Curiousity about nuanced semantics. - 8/27/2008 5:24:19 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


The only thing the last eight years have really proven is that the Democrats are so lost, so out of touch that keep nominating total losers who are incapable of beating the likes of George W. Bush.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

While I think the quote is hilarious, I have to ask what you mean by the "average American".  Does that mean those with wealth and power are more intelligent and better qualified?  I think the last 8 years have proven that to be a fallacy.



So I take it you believe Dubya has just been an outstanding president.  Let's all join in and give a resounding "helluva job Bushie".

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RE: Curiousity about nuanced semantics. - 8/27/2008 5:27:03 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


The only thing the last eight years have really proven is that the Democrats are so lost, so out of touch that keep nominating total losers who are incapable of beating the likes of George W. Bush.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

While I think the quote is hilarious, I have to ask what you mean by the "average American".  Does that mean those with wealth and power are more intelligent and better qualified?  I think the last 8 years have proven that to be a fallacy.



So I take it you believe Dubya has just been an outstanding president.  Let's all join in and give a resounding "helluva job Bushie".

Not an outstanding president.  But when the best the Dems could come up with is John Kerry, you have to admit the Dems have done a marvelous job of making Bush look Presidential.

Hell, something like half the Dems in the Senate vote the Bush line over half the time--so tell me again how bad Bush is?


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RE: Curiousity about nuanced semantics. - 8/27/2008 5:44:40 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


The only thing the last eight years have really proven is that the Democrats are so lost, so out of touch that keep nominating total losers who are incapable of beating the likes of George W. Bush.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

While I think the quote is hilarious, I have to ask what you mean by the "average American".  Does that mean those with wealth and power are more intelligent and better qualified?  I think the last 8 years have proven that to be a fallacy.



So I take it you believe Dubya has just been an outstanding president.  Let's all join in and give a resounding "helluva job Bushie".

Not an outstanding president.  But when the best the Dems could come up with is John Kerry, you have to admit the Dems have done a marvelous job of making Bush look Presidential.

Hell, something like half the Dems in the Senate vote the Bush line over half the time--so tell me again how bad Bush is?



Well, half of me wants to believe that half the Dems vote Bush half the time but half of me finds it hard to believe half the Dems vote Bush half the time.  So, on behalf of both my halves, and at least half of the Senate Dems, he really ain't half-bad.

Nah, that's a lie, he's a moron.  A pompous, arrogant idiot who would be washing dishes at Denny's if not for his family's stature. 

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Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Curiousity about nuanced semantics. - 8/27/2008 5:46:04 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Not everyone votes with the same set of criteria that you do. For good or ill, politicians are a product to be sold to the masses in this era.  Do some basic research on sales and marketing strategies and the need for product/name recognition and the buyer identifying with the product.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
I still don't understand the concept of needing to "identify with" or feel connected to someone in order to vote for them.  I'm not looking for a new friend, I'm hiring someone to do a job.  The only thing that should be of concern is how well I feel they can do it. 


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RE: Curiousity about nuanced semantics. - 8/27/2008 5:56:02 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Not everyone votes with the same set of criteria that you do. For good or ill, politicians are a product to be sold to the masses in this era.  Do some basic research on sales and marketing strategies and the need for product/name recognition and the buyer identifying with the product.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
I still don't understand the concept of needing to "identify with" or feel connected to someone in order to vote for them.  I'm not looking for a new friend, I'm hiring someone to do a job.  The only thing that should be of concern is how well I feel they can do it. 



That is the crux of the problem right there.  Do we really want the people that very literally make life-or-death decisions for us to be marketed and sold like a can of soup or the next weight-loss pill that will help you shed 30 lbs in 7 days?

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 8/27/2008 5:57:06 PM >

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RE: Curiousity about nuanced semantics. - 8/27/2008 6:10:05 PM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius
any suggestions on how to institute some sort of change.
Stop watching Larry King.

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RE: Curiousity about nuanced semantics. - 8/27/2008 6:27:47 PM   
Thadius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius
any suggestions on how to institute some sort of change.
Stop watching Larry King.


I try to catch all three of the infotainment news channels primetime hosts... to get a mix of what is being said where and by who.

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RE: Curiousity about nuanced semantics. - 8/27/2008 6:47:14 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		It's a consumerist society, most everything is for sale.
 
If you want to change the process of how elections are run get involved with a group or party that shares your ideas.


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
That is the crux of the problem right there.  Do we really want the people that very literally make life-or-death decisions for us to be marketed and sold like a can of soup or the next weight-loss pill that will help you shed 30 lbs in 7 days?


_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

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Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Curiousity about nuanced semantics. - 8/27/2008 6:49:30 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
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Status: offline 		Or start one.  How do you think a National Gorean Party would be received?

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RE: Curiousity about nuanced semantics. - 8/27/2008 6:52:15 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

Or start one.  How do you think a National Gorean Party would be received?

I'd probably vote for the Gorean candidate.


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RE: Curiousity about nuanced semantics. - 8/27/2008 7:04:54 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Ya know Thadius, when the Governator was first elected the paper with the list of candidates names was so big it would not fit inside the plastic sleeve that holds it in place for the counting machine.
 
We're talking 120+ candidates on the ballot, some of them failed actors and yes, porn stars!
 
So what the hell.  Go for it!
 
LMAO!  


quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

Or start one.  How do you think a National Gorean Party would be received?

I'd probably vote for the Gorean candidate.



_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

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RE: Curiousity about nuanced semantics. - 8/27/2008 7:20:50 PM   
Alumbrado


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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

Or start one.  How do you think a National Gorean Party would be received?


Jesse Ventura has already ruled out such a thing.

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Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Curiousity about nuanced semantics. - 8/27/2008 8:05:59 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

Or start one.  How do you think a National Gorean Party would be received?


Finally, some comic relief .

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Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Curiousity about nuanced semantics. - 8/27/2008 9:37:04 PM   
blacksword404


Posts: 2068
Joined: 1/4/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

I understand what you are saying. However, the media and alas some campaigns, are suggesting exactly that a vote for one is a vote against the other, and thus the nuance of semantics.  I completely understand that there  are other reasons to vote for or against somebody, yet that is not how it is presented.  Too, you keep avoiding the obvious double standard in holding a position of "I am choosing to vote for X because they are Y race or gender."  Insert white or male for Y and it is reported and attacked, compared to inserting black or female being inserted for Y.  See the dicotomy in practice here, not just the theory that we wish was reality.

It is possible that I am completely off base here, as I am just going on my personal observations.

I'm not avoiding any double standard. I only vote for white candidates is a different proposition than I am voting for this candidate because he is white. It is possible to be actually hold the first position but express the second but it isn't necessarily true that if you state the second statement that you hold the first position.

Going back to the original post the question was "Do any of the panelists think there were some white folks that wouldn't vote for Obama simply because he was black?" which implies the position of "I will not vote for any black candidate."

Then the second proposition is presented thus "Were there any blacks that were voting for Obama simply because he was black, and were there any women out there that voted for Hillary simply because she was a woman?" which implies "I'm voting for this candidate because he is black."

The first and second propositions are similiar but not identical and that is the crux of the issue.


The way question is phrased, "Do any of the panelists think there were some white folks that wouldn't vote for Obama simply because he was black?" Seems to denote just that one criteria as the basis of making it. I don't think we would vote for david duke if he were running and black. But why wouldn't we? Would he not be black? The reason we would not is because he does not have our best interest in mind. We had all white people until now. We voted for them until now. We always had the option to just not vote for any white person.   In the event of a tie like you had between hillary and barack, guess who got that extra point? If you have two people from your city running in a race and one grew up on your block and the other grew up on the other side of town and you size them up as being basicly the same, the one that grew up on your block would likely get the extra point. But most people don't just use race or gender to pick thier candidate. Its just one of many items to compare against.Issues first then race,age,hot dog eater, sex, working stiff, rich guy,city slicker, country feller. 

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RE: Curiousity about nuanced semantics. - 8/27/2008 9:54:26 PM   
MercTech


Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline 		Hmmm, I realize I have not voted "for" anyone since I made the mistake of voting for the peanut farmer (Jimmy Carter).  Ever since then, I vote for the least obnoxious and least obviously crooked one on the ballot.
I think the libertarians are right, we need "None of the Above" as an option on the ballots.  I'd wager that NOTA would take the presidential election this year.

I liked Reagan once he got into office.  He seemed to realize he didn't know squat and got some good advisors and listened to them.  Too many political wonks try to pass themselves off as experts in everything.

BTW... a popular bumper sticker in Arkansas last administration was "I didn't vote for the dope from Hope"

Stefan

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RE: Curiousity about nuanced semantics. - 8/27/2008 11:40:28 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
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Status: offline 		What's the difference between "semantics" and "nuanced semantics?"

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RE: Curiousity about nuanced semantics. - 8/28/2008 12:01:36 AM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

Or start one.  How do you think a National Gorean Party would be received?
I've never seen Green spelled quite that way. Back to watching my Biden speech once again.

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RE: Curiousity about nuanced semantics. - 8/28/2008 12:03:10 AM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		  Does "anal retentive" have a hyphen?

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

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Profile   Post #: 80
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