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RE: Confidence vs. Arrogance - 8/31/2008 2:16:30 PM

leadership527

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quote:

ORIGINAL: StrongSpirit
Of all the arguments, your logic seems most convincing, but I still have issues.

Heh, careful there. It is a glib statement, not a dictionary definition. But still, I find it very useful. Often times, these sorts of glib statements are useful exactly because while they are not accurate, they expose the truth of things upon inspection.

quote:

ORIGINAL:StrongSpirit
Would you call someone confident if they correctly realized that they are in fact not the person to do job X and did not try? After all, they were right. They successfully calculated their odds of success and the cost of failure, and did not try because they determined they were not up to the task.

Not only confident... but VERY confident. And so would you I'm guessing. You'd be surprised how many jobs I have gotten when my closing statement in the intervew was, "I'm afraid I really don't have the best skill set for this job. This is really some interesting work you're doing here, but I'm not the best candidate for you." People respond to an honest statement of one's capabilities and the self-confidence it implies to be able to say it. An awful lot of hiring managers, apparently, would prefer honest self-confidence over a theoretically better skill set. I would prefer my sub to be honestly self-confident than foolishly attempt to be perfect.

Where I would call this not confident is when the person in fact had a reasonable chance of doing the job perhaps with a bit of stretch and did not try. The same mentor said to me...

Tossing someone into the pool 6 inches over their head is teaching them to swim. Tossing them in 6' over their head is just drowning them

So depending on whether the job was teaching them to swim or drowning them, I'd call their call to not try, poor or good self confidence.

quote:

ORIGINAL:StrongSpirit
Would you call someone that bought a home with a 2 year ARM, no money down, in Las Vegas 18 months ago foolish or arrogant? They seem to fit your definition of arrogant, having misjudged the odds, difficulty, and their own ability. I think your definition has them as arrogant, while I would call them foolish.

In english, many words convey similar meanings with shades of difference. In this case, I would go with "foolish", but if someone pressed me on "arrogant", I'd go with that also. I just think foolish conveys the meaning better. To be fair, I also think that it's pretty much a given that foolish and arrogant go together.

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: Confidence vs. Arrogance - 8/31/2008 4:41:49 PM

chickpea

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Kobe Bryant is BOTH confident AND arrogant.

Arrogance:

(1) Defining yourself and your self-worth on what you do or have that you perceive to be great (in order to think well of yourself to keep up with others, cover up an insecurity that has nothing to do with the task at hand, or if you plain don't relate well to the plight of others) such as: your possessions, what you do well, and/or how great you look.
(2) Wanting others to judge you by the standard of what standards you use in judging yourself (often what you do well, what great things you own, or how great you look).
(3) Seeing the world and treating others solely based on that same scale. (treat them well if they measure up to your "expectations", treat them like crap if they don't). For example, you own a Lexus SUV, and someone else doesn't, so you scoff at them when you see their Toyota Corolla.

Confidence:

(1) To approach a task, job, social event with courage, a level-head, a strong sense of self, and an eye towards a positive or successful strong outcome.
(2) To attack a matter from your point of strength (rather than weakness).
(3) To give your best shot, whatever the outcome, and be secure in your self-worth win or lose.

We can both be confident and arrogant, either, or none of the above. So, both aren't opposites necessarily.

< Message edited by chickpea -- 8/31/2008 4:45:24 PM >

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RE: Confidence vs. Arrogance - 9/1/2008 4:53:03 AM

seababy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: badlilthang

i found this:

Arrogance: offensive display of superiority or self-importance; overbearing pride.

Confidence: 1.full trust; belief in the powers, trustworthiness, or reliability of a person or thing: We have every confidence in their ability to succeed. 2.belief in oneself and one's powers or abilities; self-confidence; self-reliance; assurance: His lack of confidence defeated him.

In my book - Confidence is when You are what You say You are - and carrying with that calm, cool and collected way of life...Arrogance is to think You are better than anyone else - but nothing to back it up with...and most likely to step on others to prove it....

edited for my usual typos..

I like the definitions here.
Id just like to add though, I think some arrogant people are competent.
I don't think its about if you walk the walk, its wether your a puffed up narcisistic ass hat while you do it.
I've worked with different types of high achievers and there are some totaly lacking in pretension yet radiating confidence and ability and others that make you just want to edge out of the room.
I can remember one multi millionare who was completely blinded by his own glory, one of the most boring people imaginable I couldn't wait to get away.

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RE: Confidence vs. Arrogance - 9/1/2008 5:58:03 AM

badlilthang

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quote:

ORIGINAL: seababy

quote:

ORIGINAL: badlilthang

i found this:

Arrogance: offensive display of superiority or self-importance; overbearing pride.

Confidence: 1.full trust; belief in the powers, trustworthiness, or reliability of a person or thing: We have every confidence in their ability to succeed. 2.belief in oneself and one's powers or abilities; self-confidence; self-reliance; assurance: His lack of confidence defeated him.

In my book - Confidence is when You are what You say You are - and carrying with that calm, cool and collected way of life...Arrogance is to think You are better than anyone else - but nothing to back it up with...and most likely to step on others to prove it....

edited for my usual typos..

I like the definitions here.
Id just like to add though, I think some arrogant people are competent.
I don't think its about if you walk the walk, its wether your a puffed up narcisistic ass hat while you do it.
I've worked with different types of high achievers and there are some totaly lacking in pretension yet radiating confidence and ability and others that make you just want to edge out of the room.
I can remember one multi millionare who was completely blinded by his own glory, one of the most boring people imaginable I couldn't wait to get away.

I agree with you - some arrogant people do have what it takes - but well..misuse it - need i even say his name - the man with the bad hairdo? Trump - He has power - He knows it and in my opinion - using it wrong.

i have met millionaires on my travels - one wanted me as his little plaything - and just told me so - my reply was (yay..one of the moments you actually had the reply there and then and not thought of it 2 hours later) - sorry, Sir...but none of my lovers are above 25 years old.....(smirks a bit)....the look in his face was priceless - the man next to me in the bar nearly choked on his drink..and later the rich dude came up to me and apologized..AND..gave me his business card...*L*...(which i threw away)...but all in all - a fun moment...and a place where confidance switched placed with arrogance..s..

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RE: Confidence vs. Arrogance - 9/2/2008 3:20:02 PM

chickpea

Posts: 446
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: Los Angeles Area
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quote:

ORIGINAL: badlilthang

quote:

ORIGINAL: seababy

quote:

ORIGINAL: badlilthang

i found this:

Arrogance: offensive display of superiority or self-importance; overbearing pride.

Confidence: 1.full trust; belief in the powers, trustworthiness, or reliability of a person or thing: We have every confidence in their ability to succeed. 2.belief in oneself and one's powers or abilities; self-confidence; self-reliance; assurance: His lack of confidence defeated him.

In my book - Confidence is when You are what You say You are - and carrying with that calm, cool and collected way of life...Arrogance is to think You are better than anyone else - but nothing to back it up with...and most likely to step on others to prove it....

edited for my usual typos..

I like the definitions here.
Id just like to add though, I think some arrogant people are competent.
I don't think its about if you walk the walk, its wether your a puffed up narcisistic ass hat while you do it.
I've worked with different types of high achievers and there are some totaly lacking in pretension yet radiating confidence and ability and others that make you just want to edge out of the room.
I can remember one multi millionare who was completely blinded by his own glory, one of the most boring people imaginable I couldn't wait to get away.

I agree with you - some arrogant people do have what it takes - but well..misuse it - need i even say his name - the man with the bad hairdo? Trump - He has power - He knows it and in my opinion - using it wrong.

i have met millionaires on my travels - one wanted me as his little plaything - and just told me so - my reply was (yay..one of the moments you actually had the reply there and then and not thought of it 2 hours later) - sorry, Sir...but none of my lovers are above 25 years old.....(smirks a bit)....the look in his face was priceless - the man next to me in the bar nearly choked on his drink..and later the rich dude came up to me and apologized..AND..gave me his business card...*L*...(which i threw away)...but all in all - a fun moment...and a place where confidance switched placed with arrogance..s..

LOL, that situation should be made into a Mastercard commercial. The look on his face, priceless.

Yeah, the arrogance thing (I'm all that and a bag of chips before I even prove it to you) can be quite a turn-off, and makes me want to throw it back at their faces. But then again, maybe they're tired of proving it to a billion strangers and just want someone to accept that they are all that without having to prove it again. But then again, it's all tied into an over-concern about how other people perceive you. Oh well, actions speak louder than words.

I guess some high achievers are just louder than others. *shrugs*

_____________________________

Congrats to both In the end it was win-win. Now let's get to work http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/05/john-mccain-concedes-election http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/17/transition.wrap/index.html

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RE: Confidence vs. Arrogance - 9/2/2008 3:52:06 PM

JewAndCelt

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Joined: 8/23/2008
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The display of arrogance is the hallmark of a person who's unsure of him/herself. Confidence, however, need not be flaunted openly.

It would seem that confidence, at least in the D/s realm, would negate the presence of arrogance. Arrogance is something that just screams, "HEY, LOOK AT WHAT I CAN DO!", while confidence would enable a person to go and perform an action, or at least try to do so.

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RE: Confidence vs. Arrogance - 9/2/2008 5:32:23 PM

StrongSpirit

Posts: 575
Joined: 4/10/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

I absolutely believe you do not understand submission, nor all women very well at all, by this very statement.

the.dark.

1. I think the word absolute illustrates your personal issues.   Even assuming you are correct about what my statement means, brilliant people say stupid things all the time.   Are you not willing to even consider the fact that I may have written something poorly? Or that you might have mis-understood what I meant.

2.   Submissives are not clones of you personal idea of submission. They vary, as do women.   Considering the huge amount of disagreement about what a constitutes submission on this board, I doubt that more than 10% of subs have the same belief system about what submissive means.

3. Similarly, vanilla women are not clones either.   Note how I never talked about all women, I said a 'common belief'. An idea held even by 10% of a population can be called common. The world is a varied place, not a mono-culture.

4. Just as subs are different, so are doms.    I am willing to bet that just as no more than 10% of subs have the same idea of submission, I am also willing to bet that no more than 10% of Doms would agree with what you personally think submission means. It is clear that your opinion differs from mine, but the lack of consensus means that less than one in ten people on this boards will agree with you.

5. You failed to provide your own personal opinion, instead leaving a post that is solely a base insult. In effect you said "1+1 is not equal to 2", without giving either the number you belief 1+1 adds up to, nor any logic about what is wrong with my statement. Your post was singularly unhelpful.

===================

In closing, I am sure that there are many submissive woment and/or vanilla women that I do not understand.

That is OK with me. Why? Because I also know from personal experience that there are vanilla and submissive women that I do understand. Quite a few in fact.

It may even be true that I don't understand the majority of submissive and vanilla women.   But that is also OK. Because I don't want the majority of women, kinky or vanilla. All I want is one.

< Message edited by StrongSpirit -- 9/2/2008 5:33:18 PM >

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RE: Confidence vs. Arrogance - 9/2/2008 5:33:25 PM

DomDolf

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Joined: 7/11/2008
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If a person is secure and confident I believe they generally don't worry about being accepted. I also feel they don't expect anyone to accept them without some level of proving themselves. They likely won't follow someone that hasn't proven themselves and won't expect others to.

Dolf

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