RE: The RNC opportunity (Full Version)

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DomKen -> RE: The RNC opportunity (8/30/2008 7:30:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
No CL calling his Administration a failure,would merely be aknowledging the truth.What shall we measure "his success" by, 2 failed wars,a trashed economy,plummetting respect from the international community.The codifying and public debate about how much torture constitutes torture?Pray tell me CL what glorious achievement will we hang on/with his effigy.What monuments to this simple man do you suggest we raise(pun intended)

One thing will always be mentioned every time he's mentioned. He made it the policy of the United States to torture. Nothing can ever change that or mitigate the shame he has brought upon this nation.




celticlord2112 -> RE: The RNC opportunity (8/30/2008 7:33:04 PM)

quote:

Pray tell me CL what glorious achievement will we hang on/with his effigy.What monuments to this simple man do you suggest we raise(pun intended)

  • Lowered taxes for all Americans.
  • Lowered the tax rates for the lowest income brackets
  • Took out the Taliban
  • No terrorist attack on US soil since 9/11.
  • Economic growth over his two terms despite military engagements in Afghanistan and Iraq (not dramatic growth, but avoiding recession under such circumstances is still an accomplishment).
For starters....




slvemike4u -> RE: The RNC opportunity (8/30/2008 7:40:20 PM)

You are really going to try to argue that the Bush presidency has been successful,lower taxes ,higher unemployment.Lowest income brackets have bigger problems than taxes(most actually don't pay a federal tax)Took out the Taliban,than who are those guys lobbing rockets and mortars across the Pakistani border.Economic growth?...hows the housing market going...record profits for big oil...more tax breaks for big oil...gas prices thru the roof...shall I keep going?




celticlord2112 -> RE: The RNC opportunity (8/30/2008 7:47:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

You are really going to try to argue that the Bush presidency has been successful,lower taxes ,higher unemployment.Lowest income brackets have bigger problems than taxes(most actually don't pay a federal tax)Took out the Taliban,than who are those guys lobbing rockets and mortars across the Pakistani border.Economic growth?...hows the housing market going...record profits for big oil...more tax breaks for big oil...gas prices thru the roof...shall I keep going?

Which of the things I cited were untrue?





kittinSol -> RE: The RNC opportunity (8/30/2008 7:57:45 PM)

Ahem... Just for a laugh:

"Should the Iranian regime - do they have the sovereign right to have civilian nuclear power? So, like, if I were you, that's what I'd ask me. And the answer is, yes, they do." --George W. Bush, talking to reporters in Washington, D.C., July 2, 2008

Slate .






slvemike4u -> RE: The RNC opportunity (8/30/2008 8:02:38 PM)

Which of my counter-points were untrue?




kittinSol -> RE: The RNC opportunity (8/30/2008 8:10:17 PM)

Damnation - post fuckup, Mike, apologies, I didn't intend on replying to you...




bipolarber -> RE: The RNC opportunity (8/30/2008 8:15:40 PM)

The Bush legacy. The presidancy that history will remember, just as Clinton's will forever be tainted by Lewinsky... just the "high" points:

1. the fact that he was installed, without a proper recount.
2. he spent more than a third of his years as POTUS on vacation.
3. 7.5 minutes staring at "My Pet Goat" when, for all we knew, the nation was about to be nuked... AND allowing the Bin Laedan family to leave the US without even questioning them.
4. The lies about WMD, and yellowcake uranium.
    a) the slideshow "joke" looking for WMD under the rug, which was played out in front of a press dinner, with several Iraq widows in attendance.
    b) changing the "reason" for the Iraq invasion at least three times.
    c) Deliberately feeding Powell fake intel of "portable anthrax units" for his address to the UN.
5. Outing the wistleblower's (Wilson's) wife (V. Plame) to the press, and endangering both her, her work, and all the people she made regular contact with. He also did this during a time of war, which is considered treason.
6. Torture.
     a) waterboarding
     b) electrified scrotums
     c) releasing dogs on restrained prisoners
     d) there now seems to be evidence that at least three prisoners have been killed while incarcerated at Abu Graib, under US troop control... and the records were covered up.
7. Setting up of Gitmo.
8. Special renditions to overseas black prisons... more torture.
9. "Mission Accomplished" (then denying that his staff set up the photo op, claiming it was the crew of the carrier who hung the banner... patently false, since the carrier has no print shop capable of making one.)
10. Total lack of respponse to Katrina. (Heck of a job, Brownie!)
11. Illegal, unconstitutional wire tapping, and tracking of all phone calls within the US.
12. Halliburton, no bid contracts.
13. Cronyisim
14. Firing US attorneys according to political affiliation.
15. Doubling the national debt. $9.9 trillion, and counting.
16. Increasing the size of government, and making OHS one of the biggest buracracies in history.
17. Denial of global warming.
18. Cutting veteran's benefits in a time of war.... six times.
19. Still no body armor, or armor for humvees.
20. Swiftboating a 12 year old over the S-Chip program.
21. His detestable address to the UN, where he claimed, "You're either with us, or with the terrorists."
22. Using FBI opratives to attempt to "rough up" Cindy Sheehan, a gold star mother protesting that her son was sent into a quagmire over a lie.
23. Gutting hebeas corpus, the basis for the Constitution, and a basic standard of freedom since it was established in the mid 1200's a.d..
24. Several attempts to load the Supreme Court with arch conservatives.
25. Deliberately lying about the Anthrax attacks being linked to Iraq.
26. Deliberately lying, and manufacturing of "evidence" that there ever was a link between Al Queida, and Iraq.
26. Permanent tax cuts for those earing over a quarter of a million a year, while families below that end up paying more.
27. His "ownership society" legislation, making it easier for lower income people to get mortgage loans... at the sub prime level.... which of course, has led to the current foreclosure crisis.
28.- 50. etc., etc., etc....




Maybe he can work a few of those into his address. If he keeps to pattern, he'll show up at Monday night's convention floor, and present McCain with a belated birthday cake... while Gustave bears down on New Orleans...  LOL! (Let them eat cake!)





TheHeretic -> RE: The RNC opportunity (8/30/2008 8:30:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Am I the only one that actually listens to his weekly radio addresses?


       You're the one, huh?  I hadn't realized you had that masochist streak going. 

      I think such a statement, or statements could go a long way with the electorate who matter at this point in the campaign.  I don't think it's very likely.  Best bet is that not a lot of people will tune in at all, and getting his contribution out of the way early is a good plan.

       Rudy Giuliani will be keynoting on Tuesday.  That should be much better.




tychtyp -> RE: The RNC opportunity (8/30/2008 8:40:13 PM)

Well said, bipolarber.

Don't forget his nomination of Harriet Miers, a complete incompetent, to the Supreme Court.




dcnovice -> RE: The RNC opportunity (8/30/2008 8:46:28 PM)

<fast reply>

Maybe he'll say, "Johnny, you're doing a heckuva job!"




celticlord2112 -> RE: The RNC opportunity (8/30/2008 9:02:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Which of my counter-points were untrue?

The one about people not paying federal taxes.
And if you're arguing that the Taliban is still ruling Afghanistan I will be interested in hearing your facts and figures on that.
I would also like to know how oil company profits indicate a lack of economic growth.




DarkSteven -> RE: The RNC opportunity (8/30/2008 9:08:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

Pray tell me CL what glorious achievement will we hang on/with his effigy.What monuments to this simple man do you suggest we raise(pun intended)
  • Lowered taxes for all Americans.
  • Lowered the tax rates for the lowest income brackets
  • Took out the Taliban
  • No terrorist attack on US soil since 9/11.
  • Economic growth over his two terms despite military engagements in Afghanistan and Iraq (not dramatic growth, but avoiding recession under such circumstances is still an accomplishment).
For starters....



1. Lowered taxes for all Americans.  Yup, did it by driving up debt.  That's like complimenting someone for reducing payments on credit cards.  He did NOT cut spending - he drove it through the roof.

2. Lowered tax rates for lowest income brackets.  As above.  It doesn't take a genius to quit paying bills.

3.  Took out the Taliban?  Is that the same Taliban that is holed up in Afghanistan everywhere but Kabul, and getting fat from sale of opium?  Note that in pre-invasion Afghanistan, the Taliban did not allow poppies but they changed their mind after invasion.

4.  Are you saying that having only ONE terrorist attack on US soil killing over 3000 is an accomplishment?  There has never been any terrorist attack on America that came close to this one.  If you believe Richard Clarke, then Bush weakened the very agencies that should have caught 9/11.

And the statement's not true that Bush's efforts prevented another attack.  Richard Reid, the shoe bomber, SHOULD have been the second attack.  He got completely through all government security measures.  He would have taken out a plane except that the passengers and crew stopped him while he was lighting off his shoes.

5. Economic growth?  No way.

Some of the Clinton economic growth was illusory, due to the dot com bubble which was bursting about the time Bush took office.  Under Bush's term, that bubble was replaced by the RE bubble, in which loans were handed out to one and all, and the mad RE valuation growth kept it all going.

That bubble's burst, and the Dems and GOP are joined together in an unholy alliance to push the date of reckoning past the November elections.  After that, the illusory growth will crash.




tychtyp -> RE: The RNC opportunity (8/30/2008 9:17:52 PM)

celticlord, Afghanistan is still a Taliban-infested shithole, because Bush's idiotic invasion of Iraq diverted resources away from it.

Many of the geopolitical ills we see today are due to Bush's blundering.  Iran probably would not have dared to openly enrich uranium if the US were at full strength, unencumbered by a deeply unpopular war.  America's negotiating position with the now nuclear-capable N. Korea would not be so anemic, either.  Russia probably wouldn't be occupying parts of Georgia.  Oil prices probably wouldn't be so fucking high.

The Bush legacy is shit; why do you keep defending it?




celticlord2112 -> RE: The RNC opportunity (8/30/2008 9:27:37 PM)

quote:

Iran probably would not have dared to openly enrich uranium if the US were at full strength, unencumbered by a deeply unpopular war. America's negotiating position with the now nuclear-capable N. Korea would not be so anemic, either. Russia probably wouldn't be occupying parts of Georgia. Oil prices probably wouldn't be so fucking high.

Iran's uranium enrichment efforts began in the late 1980's.  Tehran has sought nuclear weapons since well before George Bush entered politics.

America's negotiating position with North Korea under Clinton didn't keep that country from becoming a nuclear power.

Why wouldn't Russia be invading Georgia?  Putin wants to rebuilt the Russian (Soviet) empire--he wants all of Georgia eventually.

How did Bush cause global oil prices to rise?

There's a lot about the Bush administration to criticize and denounce.  However, to say that Bush was wrong about everything, or that there were no policy successes during his term of office, is an extreme and highly untenable position.




bipolarber -> RE: The RNC opportunity (8/30/2008 9:28:57 PM)

As Doonsbury stated it last week in the Sunday strip:  I keep thinking of the Bush "legacy", but when I try to express my feelings about it,  it keeps coming out wrong... I keep pausing:

WORST.
PRESIDENT.
EVER.




celticlord2112 -> RE: The RNC opportunity (8/30/2008 9:29:47 PM)

quote:

5. Economic growth? No way.

Some of the Clinton economic growth was illusory, due to the dot com bubble which was bursting about the time Bush took office. Under Bush's term, that bubble was replaced by the RE bubble, in which loans were handed out to one and all, and the mad RE valuation growth kept it all going.

GDP growth is an illusion?  Real growth in incomes is an illusion?




DomKen -> RE: The RNC opportunity (8/30/2008 11:45:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Am I the only one that actually listens to his weekly radio addresses?


      You're the one, huh?  I hadn't realized you had that masochist streak going. 

Nothing masochistic just laziness. My clock radio is tuned to the local all news station and I never turn the alarm off. So on Saturday I almost always hear the address since the station carries it.

It's rarely very relevant but in the last year or so it has been increasingly self congratulatory and just plain badly written. I assume his better speechwriters have been hired away by various candidates.




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