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Compare and contrast Governor Palin and Senator Biden - 9/1/2008 12:14:35 AM   
Vendaval


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Here is a new thread to compare and contrast the Vice Presidential nominees, Governor Palin and Senator Biden, in terms of their qualifications, experience and accomplishments.

If you have additional information please provide your sources and post your links.
 
Please, no personal attacks!  Don't make me get medieval on your ass!   
 
 

< Message edited by Vendaval -- 9/1/2008 12:15:44 AM >


_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
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RE: Compare and contrast Governor Palin and Senator Biden - 9/1/2008 12:28:32 AM   
Brain


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 YouTube - Scarborough reacts to Palin news
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTbsbeY5k5k



Mark Nickolas' Blog: The GOP's Shameless Hypocrisy Of Palin Veep Pick
http://www.politicalbase.com/profile/Mark Nickolas/blog/&blogId=3415



McCain Camp Didn't Search Palin's Hometown Paper Archives
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/31/mccain-camp-didnt-search_n_122823.html



YouTube - Cafferty: Does McCain Undercut His Own Message With VP Pick?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6MVmv1OY6Q



McCain Buckles to Far Right... Wanted to Pick Lieberman
Conservative Ire Pushed McCain From Lieberman - NYTimes.com
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/31/us/politics/31reconstruct.html?_r=3&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

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RE: Compare and contrast Governor Palin and Senator Biden - 9/1/2008 12:35:02 AM   
TheHeretic


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        It's kind of hard, Ven.  They are running for different things.  Palin is a rising star governor, trying for the ultimate internship, Biden is very much Washington as usual, running for babysitter.

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RE: Compare and contrast Governor Palin and Senator Biden - 9/1/2008 12:36:23 AM   
Vendaval


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  to the Forums, Brain.

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"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


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RE: Compare and contrast Governor Palin and Senator Biden - 9/1/2008 12:37:37 AM   
Vendaval


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So whose your money on?  Do you have a horse in this race?

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

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RE: Compare and contrast Governor Palin and Senator Biden - 9/1/2008 12:51:41 AM   
Thadius


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According to The Council for Citizens Against Government Waste: Senator Biden scored the worst possible in all votes for 2007 (since 2008 isn't over yet there is no report).  This score is lower than Obama, Clinton, and even Schumer.

http://councilfor.cagw.org/site/DocServer/2007_Senate_Ratings_Final.pdf?docID=3181
His 0% rating is actually lower than his lifetime rating of 22%,  Perhaps this was a bit of shuffling for the base with his desire to run for the Dem nomination?

The National Taxpayers Union gave Biden an F for 2007, click the link below to see where he rated from 1992 through 2007 and comparisons to the rest of the Senate.
http://www.ntu.org/main/components/ratescongress/details_all_years.php3?senate_id=22 

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RE: Compare and contrast Governor Palin and Senator Biden - 9/1/2008 12:59:19 AM   
Vendaval


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Those are terrible scores.

Here is a brief synopsis from PBS.org


"Biden Brings Foreign Policy Skills, Liberal Voting Record"
 
" Recently, the struggling economy has supplanted Iraq as a top campaign issue, but the conflict in Georgia with Russian forces has returned foreign policy to the public discourse. Biden traveled to Georgia in mid-August at the behest of President Mikhail Saakashvili, according to his Web site.

Biden at first supported the use of military force in Iraq but later became an outspoken critic of the war. He has offered a five-point plan on Iraq that includes a limited central government and separate, ethnic regions that have local control over police, education, jobs and services.

On the issue of abortion, he supports a partial-birth abortion ban but not overturning Roe v. Wade."

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/politics/july-dec08/bidenprofile_08-23.html

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

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RE: Compare and contrast Governor Palin and Senator Biden - 9/1/2008 1:15:24 AM   
Vendaval


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He does have a 100% rating from the CTJ (Citizens for Tax Justice)

http://www.ctj.org/

 
And from On the Issues (relevant bolded for emphasis by me)


"Save $150 billion in tax cuts for people who don't need them. (Dec 2007)
  • Take away $85B in annual tax cuts for 1% of top earners. (Jul 2007)
  • FactCheck: Top 1% only got $67B in 2007 tax cuts, not $85B. (Jul 2007)
  • Eliminate the tax cut just for those people in the top 1%. (Mar 2007)
  • Voted YES on increasing tax rate for people earning over $1 million. (Mar 2008)
  • Voted NO on allowing AMT reduction without budget offset. (Mar 2008)
  • Voted NO on raising the Death Tax exemption to $5M from $1M. (Feb 2008)
  • Voted NO on repealing the Alternative Minimum Tax. (Mar 2007)
  • Voted NO on raising estate tax exemption to $5 million. (Mar 2007)
  • Voted NO on supporting permanence of estate tax cuts. (Aug 2006)
  • Voted NO on permanently repealing the `death tax`. (Jun 2006)
  • Voted YES on $47B for military by repealing capital gains tax cut. (Feb 2006)
  • Voted NO on retaining reduced taxes on capital gains & dividends. (Feb 2006)
  • Voted NO on extending the tax cuts on capital gains and dividends. (Nov 2005)
  • Voted NO on $350 billion in tax breaks over 11 years. (May 2003)
  • Voted YES on reducing marriage penalty instead of cutting top tax rates. (May 2001)
  • Voted YES on increasing tax deductions for college tuition. (May 2001)
  • Voted YES on eliminating the 'marriage penalty'. (Jul 2000)
  • Voted NO on across-the-board spending cut. (Oct 1999)
  • Voted NO on requiring super-majority for raising taxes. (Apr 1998)
  • Rated 15% by NTU, indicating a "Big Spender" on tax votes. (Dec 2003)
  • Rated 100% by the CTJ, indicating support of progressive taxation. (Dec 2006) "
http://www.ontheissues.org/senate/joe_biden.htm#Tax_Reform

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to Thadius)
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RE: Compare and contrast Governor Palin and Senator Biden - 9/1/2008 1:24:57 AM   
Thadius


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Biden is going to be on his home state's ballot in 2 spots this Nov.  His Senate seat is up for reelection and he has been ignoring the rivals, figuring that he has it locked up.  This raises a few interesting issues.  If he wins both seats, he would have to resign from the Senate, and thus leave his entire term to be served by a person selected by the Dem. Gov. who is also up for reelection.  The meat of this story comes in from an a report from the AP and the local television station.

quote:

According to the Associated Press, possible successors for Biden's spot include Biden's son and State Attorney General Beau Biden, Lieutenant Governor John Carney and State Treasurer Jack Markell, both candidates in the Democratic Gubernatorial race.


The current Gov is not eligible to run again because of term limits, meaning if Joe resigns before the new Gov is sworn in, she will be able to pick between Joe's son and the loser of the race for her seat.  I am not going to suggest that there is something going on behind the scenes, although with 3 of the folks involved in the deciding of whether it is even permitted under state law are participants, and 2 of them have alot to gain from the outcome.

http://www.whyy.org/tv12/deltonight/monday20.html for the basic layout of what is going on. 

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RE: Compare and contrast Governor Palin and Senator Biden - 9/1/2008 1:29:26 AM   
Vendaval


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That is very twisted and interesting.  How would this scenario play in Chicago?

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

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RE: Compare and contrast Governor Palin and Senator Biden - 9/1/2008 1:35:48 AM   
Thadius


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Hiya V,

Did you see the top story on that ctj site?  I would venture a guess to say it is far from being impartial.

Also did you look at the quotes provided for each of those positions listed... like this one.


quote:





Voted NO on $350 billion in tax breaks over 11 years. H.R. 2 Conference Report; Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003. Vote to adopt the conference report on the bill that would make available $350 billion in tax breaks over 11 years. It would provide $20 billion in state aid that consists of $10 billion for Medicaid and $10 billion to be used at states' judgment. The agreement contains a new top tax rate of 15 percent on capital gains and dividends through 2007 (5 percent for lower-income taxpayers in 2007 and no tax in 2008). Income tax cuts enacted in 2001 and planned to take effect in 2006 would be accelerated. The child tax credit would be raised to $1,000 through 2004. The standard deduction for married couples would be double that for a single filer through 2004. Tax breaks for businesses would include expanding the deduction that small businesses could take on investments to $100,000 through 2005.

Reference: Bill HR.2 ; vote number 2003-196 on May 23, 2003


I also like how they are listing only his 2003 rating of 15% by the NTU indicating a big spender, I am not sure what a 0% rating would qualify as for last year.

quote:

 


Rated 15% by NTU, indicating a "Big Spender" on tax votes.
Biden scores 15% by NTU on tax-lowering policies
Every year National Taxpayers Union (NTU) rates U.S. Representatives and Senators on their actual votes—every vote that significantly affects taxes, spending, debt, and regulatory burdens on consumers and taxpayers. NTU assigned weights to the votes, reflecting the importance of each vote’s effect. NTU has no partisan axe to grind. All Members of Congress are treated the same regardless of political affiliation. Our only constituency is the overburdened American taxpayer. Grades are given impartially, based on the Taxpayer Score. The Taxpayer Score measures the strength of support for reducing spending and regulation and opposing higher taxes. In general, a higher score is better because it means a Member of Congress voted to lessen or limit the burden on taxpayers. The Taxpayer Score can range between zero and 100. We do not expect anyone to score a 100, nor has any legislator ever scored a perfect 100 in the multi-year history of the comprehensive NTU scoring system. A high score does not mean that the Member of Congress was opposed to all spending or all programs. High-scoring Members have indicated that they would vote for many programs if the amount of spending were lower. A Member who wants to increase spending on some programs can achieve a high score if he or she votes for offsetting cuts in other programs. A zero score would indicate that the Member of Congress approved every spending proposal and opposed every pro-taxpayer reform.
Source: NTU website 03n-NTU on Dec 31, 2003



Just pointing out some differences in the way some places post things as facts.

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When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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RE: Compare and contrast Governor Palin and Senator Biden - 9/1/2008 1:39:47 AM   
Vendaval


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

Hiya V,

Did you see the top story on that ctj site?  I would venture a guess to say it is far from being impartial.

What!  Not everything on the Net is TRUE!? 


Also did you look at the quotes provided for each of those positions listed... like this one.


I was wondering about those...


Just pointing out some differences in the way some places post things as facts.

We cannot have facts in our arguments and debates here!
Only opinions without research and qualifications count.

(sarcasm)



_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

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RE: Compare and contrast Governor Palin and Senator Biden - 9/1/2008 1:46:34 AM   
Thadius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

That is very twisted and interesting.  How would this scenario play in Chicago?


Almost the way it did for Obama to get his seat.. A couple of newspapers sued the state to open up sealed divorce papers of the candidate that was beating Barrack, they won, and publicized that Ryan and his wife were involved with some kink and sex clubs.  Ryan's replacement on the ticket was a somebody that didn't even live in the state at the time Alan Keyes... we all know where that went.

Anyways, back to your specific question.  Something pretty close is about to happen in Illinois.. the 3 Daley boys are going to be running the state. One has complete control of Chicago, one is in a very strong position on the Cook County Board, and the 3rd is being mentioned for possibly running for Gov to knock of  Gov. Rod (who happened to step on one too many toes in the last couple years).  I can't remember but that might be how Madigan got her first spot, from her old man.  It is hard to keep track of all of the neputism, who got what position because of what incident and all.   I think though under Illinois law, that it would depend on how much time was left in the Senators term, and if it was the full term, that a special election would be required.  I am not certain that a Senator could run for President and Senate at the same time under Illinois law.

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When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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RE: Compare and contrast Governor Palin and Senator Biden - 9/1/2008 1:54:15 AM   
Vendaval


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

That is very twisted and interesting.  How would this scenario play in Chicago?


Almost the way it did for Obama to get his seat.. A couple of newspapers sued the state to open up sealed divorce papers of the candidate that was beating Barrack, they won, and publicized that Ryan and his wife were involved with some kink and sex clubs.  Ryan's replacement on the ticket was a somebody that didn't even live in the state at the time Alan Keyes... we all know where that went.


Politicos, sex scandals and blackmail?  This needs to be a movie script...

Anyways, back to your specific question.  Something pretty close is about to happen in Illinois.. the 3 Daley boys are going to be running the state. One has complete control of Chicago, one is in a very strong position on the Cook County Board, and the 3rd is being mentioned for possibly running for Gov to knock of  Gov. Rod (who happened to step on one too many toes in the last couple years).  I can't remember but that might be how Madigan got her first spot, from her old man.  It is hard to keep track of all of the neputism, who got what position because of what incident and all.
 

So is the Daley clan to Chicago like the Kennedy clan is to Boston?


I think though under Illinois law, that it would depend on how much time was left in the Senators term, and if it was the full term, that a special election would be required.  I am not certain that a Senator could run for President and Senate at the same time under Illinois law.

And even more contortions will be forthcoming...



_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

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RE: Compare and contrast Governor Palin and Senator Biden - 9/1/2008 2:10:43 AM   
Thadius


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Let's put it this way, they asked Old man Daley to run in '60 and his response was along the lines of are you kidding I have more power here as Mayor of Chicago, than any President will ever have, and at the time he was right.

Folks often wonder about how things worked in the city, the wiki on him is pretty good, and reminded me of one of the videos I saw of him years ago, where he clearly stated about the police department during the '68 convention mess.  "Gentlemen, get the thing straight once and for all — the policeman isn't there to create disorder, the policeman is there to preserve disorder."

Ah, memories.  Richie is following in his dad's footsteps, as his cronies keep going down for various scandals not a single "legal" accusation is made against him.. As he is good at sayin "Hey, hows was I sposed to know what he was doin, he went to work everyday, hes a good family man, I had no idea that he was doin anyting wrong."   Remember this is the same guy giving character references to the national media on folks like Rezko, Ayers, and Obama.



_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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RE: Compare and contrast Governor Palin and Senator Biden - 9/1/2008 4:37:29 AM   
sensiia


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I personally refuse to get involved in personal slander but I wish when people decided to toss links out there about a possible running mate to the possible future Commander in Chief they would at least look at both sides of the coin where the media is involved. Allow people to see both sides of the media's discussions and then let the viewer decide on which fight to choose.

It has been fact, especially of late that the media is biased and only a fool would dispute that. (awaiting the fools) And wiki isn't a reliable source

I for one get rather queazy reading anything by MoveOn BUT will sit there barfbag ready for the projection  that is surely about to happen. People wont be happy until they hear something nice about their candidate(s).

An open mind is a great thing to have. I for one am glad we can at least have these discussions without fear of persecution, I think we all need to be grateful for that.


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RE: Compare and contrast Governor Palin and Senator Biden - 9/1/2008 4:54:52 AM   
SilverMark


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Have to love Chicago!...the home of elected officials and appointees like D'Arco and Marcy...both actual members of the "Outfit". Of course we all know the Mob is dead....right?...lol...Corruption in Chicago is so much a part of the fabric of the city it will never die. Now back to the regularly scheduled program....
Comparing and contrasting the 2 V.P. candidates...hmmmm, wonder how hard it is to criticize Biden after 30 years in the senate and having to vote as often as he has had to do with a small town Mayor and 2 year Governor? Yes, I know, the same can be said about Obama and McCain but there are voting records to look at with both Pres. candidates and really only one in the V.P. Once again, I would say that I have never voted for a President based on the V.P. and doubt I ever will. Knew little of Gore, less of Lieberman and nothing of George the first yet voted for each based on the top of the ticket and on the state of the country. How many here have voted based on th V.P.?....just curious....

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RE: Compare and contrast Governor Palin and Senator Biden - 9/1/2008 5:19:48 AM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sensiia

It has been fact, especially of late that the media is biased and only a fool would dispute that. (awaiting the fools)


Not exactly disputing, but each media source needs to look at each story, determine whether to run it or not, how much space to give it, and where to place it.  Gut feel is vital with so many stories to play in limited time.  So bias is inevitable and is part of the nature of the beast.

IMO it's every citizen's responsibility to get their news from a variety of sources and hopefully the biases will tend to cancel.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: Compare and contrast Governor Palin and Senator Biden - 9/1/2008 9:43:29 AM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

So whose your money on?  Do you have a horse in this race?



       This race is close, Ven.  That in itself is quite unexpected.  The Dems should have had it locked up in May, if not March.  I keep overestimating how stupid they cannot possibly be.  My hunch is that McC will be our next President by a nose, and I'll have no sympathy for whatever reasons the D's offer for losing again.  Incompetence is not a valid excuse for failure.  Thinking and knowing are different things though, and I don't know who it will be.

         My horse was out very early.  When I go to the polls in November, I'll be there to vote No on 8.  I also expect that CA will go D no matter where I put the put the black spot.  That allows me lots of creative liberties in how I decide which column to be an insignificant number in. 

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: Compare and contrast Governor Palin and Senator Biden - 9/1/2008 11:52:17 AM   
Vendaval


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Chicago has been on my list of big cities to visit for a while and all these stories certainly make it more interesting.  I only was there once at the airport, changing planes for a flight to the Boston area. What impressed me about the airport were all the science exhibits and the colorful lights over the flat-escalator- people-moving-ramps.  It definately seems a vibrant and exiciting city.


(format edit)

< Message edited by Vendaval -- 9/1/2008 11:53:39 AM >


_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to Thadius)
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