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RE: Regressive Age Play and DID - 9/1/2008 1:35:50 PM

DelightnDevotion

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Whiplash Smile, I applaud your desire to know more about and understand DID. It is one of the most misunderstood psychiatric illnesses. I appreciate that you have broached this topic because it is something that, IMHO, we, as a BDSM community, need to be aware of. BDSM can be attractive to child abuse survivors for a myriad of reasons, such as the power exchange and even, as odd as it seems, the pain/arousal mix. And as childhood abuse is the number one cause of DID that means we may very well encounter an individual with multiple personalities as we travel this path.

Based on my experience as a therapist working with abuse survivors and a victim of childhood sexual abuse I think an individual with DID can be greatly benefitted by a loving relationship with a Dom/Domme or Master/Mistress or Daddy/Mommy. Sometimes the damage caused within a relationship can best be healed within the context of a similar relationship. Using myself as an example, I have found great healing of some of my childhood issues in my current D/s relationship. My Dom has all the power (just as my father did), but he uses it to care for and nuture me, to protect me, and to guide me rather than to destroy and abuse me. In the therapy world we call these restorative experiences.

So if a Dom/Domme/Master/etc. was adequately educated, trained and integrated into their sub/slave/etc. therapy I think they could provide a wonderful adjunct to the healing process. As LA said, some owners can handle DID with great understanding and care. DID is nothing to play with--absolutely! But, I don't think we should throw the baby out with the bathwater. People with DID can find great healing in BDSM and they will seek it here. I guarantee that. Rejecting them, ostracizing them or stigmatizing them won't help. Education, awareness, and knowing how to help, rather than harm or hinder, is the best way to deal with DID.

< Message edited by DelightnDevotion -- 9/1/2008 1:36:21 PM >

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RE: Regressive Age Play and DID - 9/1/2008 2:04:17 PM

IvyMorgan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealSub58

First of all, I am appalled at the assumptions made in this forum thread.
Except for those who responded who do have DID, your ignorance about a subject read on Wikipedia is totally off balance.

Take a deep breath, hun. Really. As far as I can see, no big assumptions have been made. There's a bit of confusion/talking at cross purposes, but... so far, everyone's been nice and respectful and civil.

quote:

First of all throwing DID into some age play role in a BDSM setting shows a total lack of knowledge of this topic.

This is not, at all, what anyone has said.

We've had a few things said...

Do people with DID do age play (as in colouring books not kink)?
Is doing age play (colouring books) a good idea with someone who has DID?
What happens if you do age play with someone with DID?

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiplashSmile2

Just wanted to let everybody know, that I'm about as neutral as swiss cheese on this topic.
You are ignorant not neutral on this topic.

Erm, where did this come from? Seriously. All the OP wanted to do was learn, and asked good, open questions.

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I did come upon a message board for those with DID, and it's apparent they regressive age play all the time.
WRONG!!Regressive age THERAPY is used carefully, and with much precaution.

Right, actual therapy is used carefully, in clinical settins with much training. No-one has talked about therapy, just about sitting and doing colouring in with a loved one when in a dissociative state and they say they want to. In the sense that the OP is using the term "Regressive Age Play", which you would understand if you'd read calmly instead of losing it, yes, DID people do it all the time, I do it all the time, three, maybe four times a week with the colouring book and the cookie decorating and things.

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Back to coloring books, Playing with kids toys and doing things that any kid would do.
None of these are used as tools for therapy unless engaging an identity that needs help in expression.

But, no-one is talking about therapy, or referring to activities that take place during therapy. Just things that happen for fun, to relax, unwind, bond with loved ones. Safe and happy.

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I would be prone to think, If I were to insist that somebody in an Alter little state stopped acting like a kid, and take their coloring books away, to prevent age play from going down, it would be a very not so pleasent experience.
This remark is totally asinine and shows your total ignorance as well as your stupidity about therapy and DID. Your assumptions are disgusting.

Actually, this is fairly sensible. If one of the "kids" is out, and they are treated as an adult, not allowed to be themselves, deprived of colouring books if they're happily colouring in, told off for skipping etc, they get upset and hurt. It is a "not so very pleasant experience".

Seriously, dear, where are you getting the basis for statements like "your assumptions are disgusting" from?

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Again, When I refer to AGE PLAY, I'm not talking about SEX, S&M play and other things that are for Adults.

DID has NOTHING to do with age play.

Finally you say something *almost* correct. DID alters do things that are similar to activities participated in by people who engage in age play. Though the age player is an adult, and opting to regress, the DID person has no control over the regression. There are different types of age players (thinking now only of the people who do the colouring books, bedtime stories etc, nothing S&M/sex like) some of which have more in common with DID people than others. But the big difference is the control over what is happening on the part of the "child".

Please try and not make generalisations. My DID has an awful lot to do with kink and Age Play, I have *adult* alters who like to age play, on the basis that they feel reassured when it happens.

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I do think it would bring out trauma engaging in Sex and the majority of typical BDSM play while somebody was in thier Alter mode. That would not be a pleasent experience based on everything I have read.
You have not read near enough, and your TV type of assumptions in regards to DID is like unto how TV/moves/theater portray BDSM, D/s.

Can you explain to me what is wrong with the statement, "doing S&M activities with someone who has been traumatised as a child and in a vulnerable state is unlikely to be pleasant for the traumatised person"? Because that's what the poster said. You're ranting, hun, and on a completely different song sheet to the rest of us.

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I do think that if somebody is aware of a Loved one having DID, that they don't have to be a certified Head Shrink to pass them a coloring book or treat them in the same manner as one would any Kid. With that said, I can even see a Dominant figure that Passing somebody the Crayola's and a Coloring book from time to time. I don't see how subjecting a DID person to Age play when they are in thier BIG stage is much different compared to when they are in their Alter little mode. How much harm can Coloring Books, and kids toys actually cause somebody?

An insidious comment/belief about DID...

Erm... no. A perfectly healthy way to respond to a child-alter.

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Again, I stress the context of Regressive Age Play.

.... and types of therapy.

But, we're not talking about therapy, or fixing someone with DID. We're talking about interacting with someone with DID.

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Identities of those who have DID do NOT have to be children and to assume they are always children/child like proves stating such is insidious gross mis-information.

Please show me where in this thread that assumption has been made.

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In regards to the schizophrenia vs DID matter, an educated therapist, physchogist, pyschiatrist can with proper diagnostic tools define the difference between schizophrenia, DID and BiPolar. An individual can be afflicted with several overlaying pathologies...

This is the only absolutly correct thing you've said. Have a cookie. Beth decorated them earlier.

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but never does role playing BDSM age play with any of these pathologies create an environment that is SSC.

Okay..
1. Where were we roleplaying BDSM activities with child alters?
2. Why is it not SSC to engage in age play with an adult DID person?
3. Why can you not colour with a child alter in DID?
4. Why can't you do age play with someone who is bipolar?
5. Who pissed in your cheerios?

(Edit cos my tags went loopy)

< Message edited by IvyMorgan -- 9/1/2008 2:14:31 PM >

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RE: Regressive Age Play and DID - 9/1/2008 2:11:19 PM

IvyMorgan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07
The danger in engaging with the 'alter' states of many of the individuals with DID, is that primarily they are unaware that their alter state has taken over. Even when they are aware, the alter has taken over out of some (generally) form of fear and/or terror. i don't think it is healthy or productive to try and entertain these 'alters' when they are surfacing.

This is just me, personally, but... if I switch, and the alter introduces themself to you, just interact with them normally, as you would any other person. If they say they're 6, treat them like a 6 year old, if they say they're an adult, do likewise. Ignoring them makes them feel dismissed, and like you don't care. Just be nice, open, caring and listen to what the person is saying... IMO, that's the best way to deal with someone with DID when they're dissociative.

quote:

i think it's a bit dangerous to think that anyone who enjoys coloring, playing with crayons, markers, silly putty, pladough, molding putty, etc. necessarily has DID. i think that's way too big of a generalization.

I don't think anyone said this, ever.

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RE: Regressive Age Play and DID - 9/1/2008 3:01:05 PM

Kalista07

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IvyMorgan
his is just me, personally, but... if I switch, and the alter introduces themself to you, just interact with them normally, as you would any other person. If they say they're 6, treat them like a 6 year old, if they say they're an adult, do likewise. Ignoring them makes them feel dismissed, and like you don't care. Just be nice, open, caring and listen to what the person is saying... IMO, that's the best way to deal with someone with DID when they're dissociative.

Ivy, my apologies if my post was not clear... i did nto mean to insinaute or imply that it is either productive or healthy to ignore someone's 'alters'. My concern was i can see where well intentioned (but not educated) people would or could attempt to 'therapize' (for lack of better words) someone in this condition or state when they are not equipped to.

quote:

i think it's a bit dangerous to think that anyone who enjoys coloring, playing with crayons, markers, silly putty, pladough, molding putty, etc. necessarily has DID. i think that's way too big of a generalization.

I don't think anyone said this, ever.

Nor did i. It was just a growing concern i had, which is why i thought i should put it out there.

Kali

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RE: Regressive Age Play and DID - 9/1/2008 3:06:24 PM

IvyMorgan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07

quote:

ORIGINAL: IvyMorgan
his is just me, personally, but... if I switch, and the alter introduces themself to you, just interact with them normally, as you would any other person. If they say they're 6, treat them like a 6 year old, if they say they're an adult, do likewise. Ignoring them makes them feel dismissed, and like you don't care. Just be nice, open, caring and listen to what the person is saying... IMO, that's the best way to deal with someone with DID when they're dissociative.

Ivy, my apologies if my post was not clear... i did nto mean to insinaute or imply that it is either productive or healthy to ignore someone's 'alters'. My concern was i can see where well intentioned (but not educated) people would or could attempt to 'therapize' (for lack of better words) someone in this condition or state when they are not equipped to.

Ahh, got ya. Makes sense now, and yes, I agree. 100%.

*smiles*

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RE: Regressive Age Play and DID - 9/1/2008 3:10:34 PM

RealSub58

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WhiplashSmile2 who said Think about somebody your life that you know and love. What if they had DID, now imagine that person in an Alter Little State asking you to Color with them?
Would you do it or not?
Would you engage playing with them and showing them your Love, or would you dismiss them because you feel playing with them is wrong to do?
Again, I my no means suggesting one play the role of therapist here.
I would tend to think that rejecting somebody in thier Alter Little State, might carry some ill or negative effects that could be potential harmful and confusing to your Loved one.

Kalista07 responds VERY well and with intelligence.
The danger in engaging with the 'alter' states of many of the individuals with DID, is that primarily they are unaware that their alter state has taken over. Even when they are aware, the alter has taken over out of some (generally) form of fear and/or terror. i don't think it is healthy or productive to try and entertain these 'alters' when they are surfacing.

colouredin responds Hun hes talking about regressive age PLAY not therapy, you should have read the op
Thanks for trying to clarify for me colouredin, but I did know to what I spoke and burntcynder states it better than I, it is therapy.
Regressive Age Play is usually done with supervision. A deliberate regression to an part of our lives that we have disassociated from. It allows the person to develop those lost emotions and thoughts associated with the traumas that are the root of the DID.

I am not fond of using wikipedia as the measuring rod to what is correct or incorrect information. Appropriate information should be obtained from websites such as these:
http://www.isst-d.org/education/faq-dissociation.htm
http://www.merck.com/mmhe/sec07/ch106/ch106e.html

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RE: Regressive Age Play and DID - 9/1/2008 3:15:19 PM

IvyMorgan

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But, RealSub, we're not talking about deliberate regression. We're not talking about trying to bring out an alter, or force a switch. We're talking about, when it's already, organically happened, whether it's a nice idea to do colouring in with a child part who asks to.

Kali has clarified what she meant with the comment you posted, perhaps you'd like to check that out, becuase she doesn't seem to be agreeing with you.

Well done for calming down though.

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RE: Regressive Age Play and DID - 9/1/2008 3:18:03 PM

DarkSteven

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I'm not actually DarkSteven, but a friend of his. I have been diagnosed with DID, and yes, it is the name now for what used to be recognized as multiplicity, and no, it is not schizophrenia.

The littles do like to come out and play, and some have sought refuge in a Daddy/daughter type dynamic, but I have found that many of the people I speak with don't quite comprehend the DID. Furthermore, most of my alters are terrified of sex, so that complicates things.
Mostly, we seek out a Daddy/disciplinarian dynamic, but without any sex (HARD to find, I assure you!).
For me, this is borne of severe trauma from early childhood on, and the alters (personalities) developed in order to cope with different pieces of the trauma while allowing me, the adult, to still function in the world with no memory of the traumas. Ultimately, I started to get in touch with the alters. They really do like to come out and play, but in safe situations. I have also used discipline to help keep more control within my system....if everyone knows that if alters interfere with one another getting necessary things done, we get spanked, it helps to keep the alters more cooperative (well, that's a blanket statement....some alters test like crazy.).
Anyway....That's my feedback of the moment. Steven can tell you what it's like from his side as my disciplinarian....which i'm sure is a fun job indeed! :)

-------

This is DarkSteven. I'm adding to what michaela (her handle here is needdiscipline) wrote above. Please note that she is the only DID I've ever met in person. So my experience is limited to what I've experienced with her.

Her littles are a motley lot. Some simply need caring. Some are programmed to be self-hurtful with acts such as cutting. Some are terrified of the self-hurtful drives of the others.

I found that setting limts and enforcing them worked very well with her. It prevented certain things from occurring, but more importantly, it gave her someone who cared and who gave her a concept of right and wrong.

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RE: Regressive Age Play and DID - 9/1/2008 3:34:31 PM

RealSub58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IvyMorgan

Thanks all for not cursing me out...
I have re-read the entire thread and owe apologies to all....

1. Where were we roleplaying BDSM activities with child alters?
Initially I read that whiplash was trying to tie these together as a possability.

2. Why is it not SSC to engage in age play with an adult DID person?
Personally I do not believe it is SSC to engage in age play with an identity that is not aware of age play or any form of BDSM. There is too much potential danger for further psychological damage.

3. Why can you not colour with a child alter in DID?
You must understand DID on an intimate level to understand that when an alter identity comes forward it is usually not to colour or play dolls.

4. Why can't you do age play with someone who is bipolar?
I guess you can... if I made a gross generalization, I am wrong. BiPolar is very different than DID. BiPolar folk who are well controlled on medication can do anything. There are no meds to control DID except treat symptoms like anxiety and depression.

5. Who pissed in your cheerios?
I did I guess, I had to go to the market to buy milk and cheerios, so I wouldnt be so pissy. Thanks for the gentle whipping.

One of my closest friends has a very severe form of DID. I found out when we both realized one of our alter identities identified with each other. At that point, neither of us knew we both had DID.

Misunderstanding of this psychiatric disorder is over whelming.

My apologies all.

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RE: Regressive Age Play and DID - 9/1/2008 3:55:02 PM

kiwisub12

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Glad you explained yourself - i was wondering what the backstory to your rant was. Now i understand the upset that showed in your post.

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RE: Regressive Age Play and DID - 9/2/2008 5:26:50 PM

IvyMorgan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealSub58
2. Why is it not SSC to engage in age play with an adult DID person?
Personally I do not believe it is SSC to engage in age play with an identity that is not aware of age play or any form of BDSM. There is too much potential danger for further psychological damage.

Ivy says: How would you engage in age play with someone who did not know what it was when they have to make a conshus choice to regress when playing?

Beth is doing the typing.

quote:

3. Why can you not colour with a child alter in DID?
You must understand DID on an intimate level to understand that when an alter identity comes forward it is usually not to colour or play dolls.

Hello. I is not very good at splaining myself always, but I hope that this makes sense. Beths like to colour in, and to watch tv programmes that make me giggle, and to decorate cakes, and to paint finger nails, and to see fun movies. At the moment, when I come online, it is so that I can do those things because they are fun.

I am seven, and according to Rhi an ANP not an EP, but I is scared lots, so I is not sure she is right. Also, when we did therapy, I is the rescuer part, so when everything goes wrong inside, I shut the system down.

It is nice for me to play sometimes. Mainly cos, as I saided I is scared lots. Last night I hadded lots of bad dreams, and today there was a very big spider that made me scream. It crawled all over the floor and was very big. So I zapped it with the vacuum cleaner. And then it was very late and everyone was sleeping, and I was scared I'd made noises and woked them all up. When I do that, Rhi gets in trouble, so it is bad. Beths like to play and do jigsaws. We didded a big one at Christmas and hidded under the bed to put it all together, it had pretty colours.

When we was with the last boyfriend person, I came online sometimes, and was quiet. He did not have colouring books, so I had to watch TV instead, but he picked boring things to watch.

Also, Beths like cuddles from safe people, like Ben, and we spended lots of time with him too. He picks fun things to watch on TV. And also has good books and toys.

quote:

One of my closest friends has a very severe form of DID. I found out when we both realized one of our alter identities identified with each other. At that point, neither of us knew we both had DID.

I didded this. I sended text messages with the phone to Frances who is one of B's parts, and then when we went to see B the next day, Rhi was confused why she'd gotted a message that morning, and she and B pieced together all the conversation. I know cos Chris (the therapist) told me later when we was doing some work.

I liked B. She was broked like us but worser. I is sad she isn't here anymore.

Beth. who isn't really sposed to be here cos Rhi wants to protect her

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