RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate.

RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. (Full Version)

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Owner59 -> RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. (9/1/2008 9:55:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Oh yes. The fundys... The hardest part of my shift to the right was being on the same side with that bunch. Thank God for the First Amendment. And then you had to deal with that pesky Bush,who stole his election and then systematically destroyed your party(the military,the wall of separation,the economy and a good chunk of America,etc.etc.etc). Now that you`re in a truthful moment.... What`s your strategy for handling responsibility for the Iraq debacle? The usual shuck,jive and shuffle?

bipolarber -> RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. (9/1/2008 10:09:14 PM)
I just find it incredible that the Republicans on this forum would so quickly get behind a group of people who would, frankly, love to send each and every one of them to prison, a mental hospital, or a gas chamber, if they could. Why they are so willing to give up their personal freedoms, and their private lives to such nazi scum is beyond me. You REALLY think that having your rights to free expression (sexual or otherwise) is worth giving up... for slightly lower taxes, and a bigger military? (nevermind we already have the biggest fucking army on the face of the planet) Once these fundie "true believers" start in with their "religious purge" on GLBT folk, you honestly believe they are going to suddenly stop when it comes to people like you and me who like to use handcuffs in a friendly way? Don't think it'll happen? Bush thought he was "born again" and that god had hand picked him to be president. Now, eight years later, we have hebeas corpus off the books, and torture is being discussed as "appropriate" in the highest levels of government. Each and every one of us has their phone calls automatically logged, when we pick up, or log on. Anti gay rights ammendments to the US Constitution are being pushed through. Before 9/11, Ashcroft & Co were getting ready to make an assault on pornography, and "alternative sexual lifestyles." The "War on Terror" has only delayed their agenda, not stopped it. You guys REALLY just don't see this storm coming, do you? You're that fucking blind.

DomKen -> RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. (9/1/2008 10:11:17 PM)
The issue here is there are people, like me, who were supportive of McCain in 2000 precisely because he opposed the religious righ takeover of his party. Then he sidled up to Robertson, Hagee and Parsley. Some of those folks could say he was holding his nose and doing what he had to do to get elected. Now with a RR politician as his running mate those people have to accept that McCain is willing to place a RR politician in position to become POTUS, either through his death in office or by being the VPOTUS and running after him. I was out after he made nice with GWB and Rove. Some folks gave up on him after he sought Robertson's endorsement. Some are going to view his choosing a RR running mate as the last straw.

Vendaval -> RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. (9/1/2008 10:16:55 PM)
You make good points about the moderates in the Republican party not liking Senator McCain's choice of a VP. Yes, he will attract the fundamentalists. But the mainstream Catholics, Protestants and non-believers will be less likely to support this choice.

Thadius -> RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. (9/1/2008 10:20:29 PM)
Which position will Catholics be turned off by? The pro-life stance, or the gay marraige one? The cat, Thadius

Vendaval -> RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. (9/1/2008 10:27:58 PM)
As a rule, mainstream Protestants and Catholics are less than enthusiastic about the extreme positions of the Fundamentalists. (For better or for worse I have years of experience in dealing with all of the above.) If you want to debate the various pros and cons of each group I suggest a separate thread. [;)]

DomKen -> RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. (9/1/2008 10:31:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Thadius Which position will Catholics be turned off by? The pro-life stance, or the gay marraige one? The cat, Thadius Which Catholics. I know some who are adamantly pro choice and plenty of others who have no problems with homosexuals. Very few Catholics are creationists or any other flavor of biblical literalist so that whole bit of the agenda will turn off a big group of Catholics. Those who practice medical birth control likely won't appreciate the fundy woo filled abstinence only sex ed stuff. Then of course those who oppose the death penalty will be less than thrilled by the candidates stand on capital punishment. That leaves the fairly small cohort of very conservative Catholics who dislike abortion more than capital punishment. Considering Catholics have been for decades a reliable Democratic voting bloc I would assume Obama will win self identified Catholics quite handily.

TheHeretic -> RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. (9/1/2008 10:33:14 PM)
That's right, Bipo and Ken. It's not like the Dems are the home of political correctness, the entitlement mentality, or a belief that every problem deserves it's own bureaucrat... Yeah, the fundys smell bad, but the stench of hate and bitterness on the other side was even worse.

DomKen -> RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. (9/1/2008 10:50:59 PM)
Pardon me? I may not like fundies but I certainly don't want to kill any of them. Unfortunately the reverse isn't true. http://www.alternet.org/story/96945/theocratic_sect_prays_for_real_armageddon/?page=entire http://www.csama.org/csanews/nws200809.pdf http://www.religioustolerance.org/reconstr.htm Pat Robertson: quote: "It is interesting, that termites don't build things, and the great builders of our nation almost to a man have been Christians, because Christians have the desire to build something. He is motivated by love of man and God, so he builds. The people who have come into (our) institutions (today) are primarily termites. They are into destroying institutions that have been built by Christians, whether it is universities, governments, our own traditions, that we have.... The termites are in charge now, and that is not the way it ought to be, and the time has arrived for a godly fumigation." New York Magazine, 1986-AUG-18 Randall Terry (founder of Operation Rescue) quote: "I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good...Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a Biblical duty, we are called by God, to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism." And this just a short list. I can provide a lot more.

Thadius -> RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. (9/1/2008 10:53:22 PM)
That was my point, there is a pretty big split in many churches, on the abortion issues. Last national poll I saw was 27% were extreme pro-choice, 18% were pro-life, and the rest felt there should be at least some sort of restrictions (late-term, certain procedures, age limits, etc...) You are trying to do alot of generalizing in this topic. Not to mention a shitload of name calling. I haven't seen anything that the vp candidate is opposed to gay/lesbian relationships, or birth control. I could have missed it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9siP9Hd8D4A This one is good... Especially the first 30 seconds.. Sen. Obama talking about sex ed for kindergarten. Seems age appropriate to me, how about you? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJ6vZRy62KY and since we are going down this road... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kdWN5WllGc I will save the fun stuff from Calypso Louis for another time. Time for me to sit back and watch the show for a bit....

Thadius -> RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. (9/1/2008 10:57:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Pardon me? I may not like fundies but I certainly don't want to kill any of them. Unfortunately the reverse isn't true. http://www.alternet.org/story/96945/theocratic_sect_prays_for_real_armageddon/?page=entire http://www.csama.org/csanews/nws200809.pdf http://www.religioustolerance.org/reconstr.htm Pat Robertson: quote: "It is interesting, that termites don't build things, and the great builders of our nation almost to a man have been Christians, because Christians have the desire to build something. He is motivated by love of man and God, so he builds. The people who have come into (our) institutions (today) are primarily termites. They are into destroying institutions that have been built by Christians, whether it is universities, governments, our own traditions, that we have.... The termites are in charge now, and that is not the way it ought to be, and the time has arrived for a godly fumigation." New York Magazine, 1986-AUG-18 Randall Terry (founder of Operation Rescue) quote: "I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good...Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a Biblical duty, we are called by God, to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism." And this just a short list. I can provide a lot more. quote: The issue arose Sunday, when Farrakhan praised Obama before a Nation of Islam gathering, even comparing him to the religion's founder, Wallace D. Fard Muhammad, who Farrakhan claims also had a white mother and black father. "A black man with a white mother became a savior to us," Farrakhan said Sunday. "A black man with a white mother could turn out to be one who can lift America from her fall." Want me to share the hateful stuff spoken by those folks of the religious persuasion supporting Obama?[8\|] Trust me I can fill the boards with it. I would say it is time for folks to take a step back and take a breath. Because nothing good can come of it.

Owner59 -> RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. (9/1/2008 11:10:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Thadius Which position will Catholics be turned off by? The pro-life stance, or the gay marraige one? The cat, Thadius http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PeNXTicGc4 Well,how about Catholic hating and bashing. Calling the church "the great whore",the apostate,and worse. The fundies,not regular fundamentalists,hate the catholics and a few other main stream churches.For whatever wacky reasons. This is the reason the fundies are one of the worst,most arrogant,most hateful movements ever produced in America Remember the Terry Schiavo fiasco? The abuse Michael Schiavo suffered at the hands these nuts,and their wacky elected assoiates in the GOP? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBYk4F164Hk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViwYUTcgcuE You and harry can sleep with them all you want,it`s just fine.Just don`t complain afterwards,when people point at you and laugh.

Thadius -> RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. (9/1/2008 11:15:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 quote: ORIGINAL: Thadius Which position will Catholics be turned off by? The pro-life stance, or the gay marraige one? The cat, Thadius http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PeNXTicGc4 Well,how about Catholic hating and bashing. Calling the church "the great whore",the apostate,and worse. The fundies,not regular fundamentalists,hate the catholics and a few other MS churches.For what ever wacky reason. This is the reason the fundies are one of the worst,most arrogant,most hateful movements ever produced in America Remember the Terry Schiavo fiasco? The abuse Michael Schiavo suffered at the hands these nuts,and their wacky elected assoiates in the GOP? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViwYUTcgcuE Hey I agree that there are extremists, however I am willing to admit that they are on both ends of the spectrum. I haven't seen anything that makes this woman out to an extremist. On the abortion issue, all I can say is she walks the walk, I am looking for more information on whether she supports any exceptions. I haven't seen anything from her saying she doesn't support exceptions for rape,health or incest. If you got it would you please post it, or send it to me on the other side. Thanks, Thadius

DomKen -> RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. (9/1/2008 11:20:33 PM)
Here's a list of her positions from her run for Governor. Only abstinence ed is question #3 Creationism is #2 Opposing gay civil unions is #10 More anti gay stuff in #12 As to trotting out a fringe nut like Farrakhan, I thought you were from Chicago? Mister bowtie is irrelevant and has been for better than a decade. Comparing him to Pat Robertson is apples to oranges. Now why don't you try and show me a quote by a major player in Democratic politics calling for the "fumigation" of anyone.

DomKen -> RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. (9/1/2008 11:26:09 PM)
This just in, Palin and her husband were members of the Alaska Independence Party in the 90's including attending the '94 party convention. http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/members-of-frin.html Now about "Country First," which country would that be?

Thadius -> RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. (9/1/2008 11:31:43 PM)
Oh there are others... I was just suggesting that some folks that might support either candidate are fucking nuts, and with that how does it reflect on the candidate? It doesn't. Did you see the dates of the quotes you provided? "New York Magazine, 1986-AUG-18" Thus, just as unimportant, as Gene Farrakhan. I didn't realize that Randall Terry was a major player for Republicans, if he was why did he run on a different party's ticket in NY? Define major player, one in the public spot light or a string puller? Therefore, I again suggest that we go away from the bombthrowing, and try to keep some sort of civil discussion. I know it is possible around here.

Owner59 -> RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. (9/1/2008 11:31:51 PM)
No one knows,at least not the McCan`tgetitrights. They`ve sent people up to Alaska to get the straight dope. Fuck`n McCain,said he`d put the country 1st,and now this non-vetted neophyte choice he made has undermined his credibility. This wasn`t a "Country First" choice.It was a desperate and foolish choice. It`s almost as if god said,"John McCain,you shall lose",and stuck this woman in his lap. Can we discuss the merits of "Abstinence Only Sex Ed" whether it works or not,or whether the government should be involved with deciding who can get married,or whether I can take my own life at the end when I`m broken and retched? Do we want the fundie agenda in the VPs spot? Had to laugh before, when someone accused me of telling people what to do,by telling people, not to tell other people what to do. lol It`s been an intersting weekend.......

Thadius -> RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. (9/1/2008 11:36:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen This just in, Palin and her husband were members of the Alaska Independence Party in the 90's including attending the '94 party convention. http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/members-of-frin.html Now about "Country First," which country would that be? So let me get this straight she joined a party in '94 then quit in '96 (according to the blog) so thus she subscribes to the positions of that party? Is that about the sum of what you are suggesting?

cyberdude611 -> RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. (9/1/2008 11:39:41 PM)
What many fail to realize is that there are fundies on both sides of the spectrum. Have you seem the pictures of St. Paul, Minnesota today? Those are far-left whackos wearing hoods, smashing windows, setting fires, and throwing objects at police. The vast majority of people there were there to protest peacefully. But there are whackos who are far-leftists (many call themselves anarchists) who are totally outside the mainstream. The far-left does not believe in freedom any more than the far-right. The left considers equality more important than freedom. Look at socialist countries around the world and you find that there is no freedom of speech. There is no freedom of religion.

Owner59 -> RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. (9/1/2008 11:43:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen This just in, Palin and her husband were members of the Alaska Independence Party in the 90's including attending the '94 party convention. http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/members-of-frin.html Now about "Country First," which country would that be? omg omg omg omg omg !!!!!! Can`t fuck`n believe that! Well,think`n about it,and how dopey cons are,I can believe it. Did they even Google this woman`s name? Did I mention how interesting this weekend has been?

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