RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate.

RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. (Full Version)

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rulemylife -> RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. (9/2/2008 7:59:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 DK, the only thing I am advocating is not excluding questions merely because they make a certain group uncomfortable. My thesis here is a simple, "why not?" A constant drumbeat that it is "not science" is a most unscientific response. No, it is just facing facts. I have no problem with creationism or intelligent design being taught, as long as they are presented as philosophy. To put them up as a scientific alternative to evolution is intellectually dishonest.

thornhappy -> RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. (9/2/2008 8:02:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity How is a follower of Jeremiah Wright any better. quote: ORIGINAL: thornhappy I was halfway for McCain, until all the events listed above. No more fer me. thornhappy When he is not beholden to one narrow sect of Christianity. thornhappy

Sanity -> RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. (9/2/2008 8:08:29 PM)
Obama's kicked Jeremiah Wright under the bus for the time being, it's true. quote: ORIGINAL: thornhappy When he is not beholden to one narrow sect of Christianity. thornhappy

rulemylife -> RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. (9/2/2008 8:18:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy I know... Loving supporting parents are America's worst nightmare. The "Fundies" had planned to stay home this time out but now they are coming to the party in droves, thanks in part to Palin who has show herself not only a tough politican and a strong independant woman but also a loving and caring parent. A loving and caring parent might have considered declining the job offer to avoid exposing her teenage daughter, who is already facing the trauma of an unintended pregnacy, the further traumatization of having the whole world know about it. And a loving parent who values and teaches lessons to their children about personal responsibility and accepting responsibility for your actions, while proving their love of their child by unconditional love ... might do exactly as Palin and her husband have done. Firm Yeah, welllllllll .............. hmmmmmmmm? Unconditional love to me would mean not exposing my child to the shame and ridicule of the media attention by putting my career ambitions on hold to prevent that.

rulemylife -> RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. (9/2/2008 8:23:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity And force the teenage daughter to live with the guilt for the rest of her life, for causing her mother to miss the chance to possibly become the president of the United States some day? Not. Does the Left have any more excuses why women should stay at home... quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife A loving and caring parent might have considered declining the job offer to avoid exposing her teenage daughter, who is already facing the trauma of an unintended pregnacy, the further traumatization of having the whole world know about it. OHHH! I see!!! She was just selflessly trying to spare her daughter future guilt. Why didn't she just say that? It all makes sense now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Vendaval -> RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. (9/2/2008 8:29:03 PM)
Good evening Thadius, I would like Governor Palin to be completely up front and honest about her stance regarding contraception and abortion in a public speech. My guess is that will be addressed during the GOP convention as this is a hot button issue. I know you have been searching as well and likely the information will be forthcoming soon.

Thadius -> RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. (9/2/2008 8:29:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife Yeah, welllllllll .............. hmmmmmmmm? Unconditional love to me would mean not exposing my child to the shame and ridicule of the media attention by putting my career ambitions on hold to prevent that. Are you suggesting that exploitation media is a cause not to run for office? Perhaps, Obama should have thought about all of the people he has put under such scrutiny and the shame and ridicule that has come about from that attention. No? What you are suggesting is that extreme elements of the media get to dictate who can run, because anybody that does run would be exercising bad choices. And before you start calling me a hypocrit I have spoken out many times about the garbage folks have dug up about Obama's family, including extended family that he may or may not know.

rulemylife -> RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. (9/2/2008 8:32:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Such as those who man Obama's phone banks in swing states? There should be no right to free speech? quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife I believe his point is that fundamentalist Christians have converting others as one of their major priorities. I have no problem with anyone's beliefs until they try to impose them on others. Speaking of one's beliefs does not equate to active attempts to convert someone to one's beliefs.

rulemylife -> RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. (9/2/2008 8:40:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife A loving and caring parent might have considered declining the job offer to avoid exposing her teenage daughter, who is already facing the trauma of an unintended pregnacy, the further traumatization of having the whole world know about it. I forgot, how dare *SHE!* If Palin was in the house where she belonged cooking dinner and doing laundry, this might have never happened! Nice try! A little clumsy though since I supported Clinton. Interesting though how so many conservatives have suddenly become feminist supporters. Regardless, if she chose to accept she chose to accept the scrutiny. What's that old saying? If you can't stand the heat .......................... Oh, wait, that was your point, wasn't it?

FatDomDaddy -> RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. (9/2/2008 8:48:51 PM)
So if McCain gets a majority of women voters, which should happen, since he will be getting a majority of white voters, then it will be fair to say that majority of women of America agree with the policies and direction of the Republican party? And thus McCain/Palin reflect the actual mood of American Women and Women's Issues???

rulemylife -> RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. (9/2/2008 8:57:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Thadius Oh just one more quick thought, isn't this the same tactic that the Dems tried using when they trotted out the personal life of Mary Cheney? So much for being open minded, pro personal privacy, and new politics.[8\|] I could sit here and list all the low tactics the Republicans have used, most without any truth behind them. Remember the Bush campaign's outrageous accusations against McCain, one of their own no less, in the South Carolina primary? At least what was pointed out by the Democrats was true and had relevance. You have a Vice-President who has spent his career condemning gays and advocating against their rights. You do not think it appropriate to question how he can do this when his own daughter is lesbian? Especially since she was not sitting on the sidelines but was an influential part of his campaign team.

Thadius -> RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. (9/2/2008 9:00:13 PM)
Should we start digging for stuff on Pelosi's 5 kids? She is just 2 heartbeats from the whitehouse?

Vendaval -> RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. (9/2/2008 9:03:01 PM)
General reply about contraception and abortion in this thread - "Abortion proposal sets condition on aid" By Robert Pear Published: July 15, 2008 Washington "In the proposal, obtained by The New York Times, the administration says it could cut off federal aid to individuals or entities that discriminate against people who object to abortion on the basis of “religious beliefs or moral convictions.” The proposal defines abortion as follows: “any of the various procedures — including the prescription, dispensing and administration of any drug or the performance of any procedure or any other action — that results in the termination of the life of a human being in utero between conception and natural birth, whether before or after implantation.” Mary Jane Gallagher, president of the National Family Planning and Reproductive Health Association, which represents providers, said, “The proposed definition of abortion is so broad that it would cover many types of birth control, including oral contraceptives and emergency contraception.” “We worry that under the proposal, contraceptive services would become less available to low-income and uninsured women,” Ms. Gallagher said. Indeed, among other things the proposal expresses concern about state laws that require hospitals to provide emergency contraception to rape victims who request it. Nancy Keenan, president of Naral Pro-Choice America, said, “Why on earth is the Bush administration trying to discourage doctors and clinics from providing contraception to women who need it?” Christina Pearson, a spokeswoman for the department, declined to discuss the draft. “We don’t normally comment on whether we are considering changes in regulations,” she said." http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/15/washington/15rule.html

cloudboy -> RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. (9/2/2008 9:12:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: caitlyn What I find interesting Owner, is that you are also a fundie ... you are just a fundie for other issues. There are a lot of left wing fundies here ... you can spot them by how they express themselves ... short and sweet, fundies are embarrasing to both parties. [;)] How exactly is he fundie? I haven't seen it.

rulemylife -> RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. (9/2/2008 9:21:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Thadius quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife Yeah, welllllllll .............. hmmmmmmmm? Unconditional love to me would mean not exposing my child to the shame and ridicule of the media attention by putting my career ambitions on hold to prevent that. Are you suggesting that exploitation media is a cause not to run for office? Perhaps, Obama should have thought about all of the people he has put under such scrutiny and the shame and ridicule that has come about from that attention. No? What you are suggesting is that extreme elements of the media get to dictate who can run, because anybody that does run would be exercising bad choices. And before you start calling me a hypocrit I have spoken out many times about the garbage folks have dug up about Obama's family, including extended family that he may or may not know. Let me preface this by saying the issues should be the focus. In this case the issue is Palin's strong stance on abstinence-only education. She had to be well aware of the irony and that the media attention would be on that irony. It's one thing for the media to stretch to dig up dirt to run a story. It's another thing when you are responsible for creating the story, knowing your family will suffer the consequences, and you choose to do it anyway.

Thadius -> RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. (9/2/2008 9:31:23 PM)
The only reason this was even brought out in the public was because that media was suggesting that she lied about giving birth to her own child, and was covering up for her daughter. They accused her of a couple of crimes, lying, and the same thing they are doing now. Tell me how this is about her positions again? Did you read the questionaire and answers she gave about the issue you are pointing to? Scroll back and you will find where I placed the link. She said she was against "EXPLICIT sex ed being funded" As that was the question she was asked, if she supported explicit sexual education in the schools. That first word, does change the entire issue, does it not?

caro44 -> RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. (9/2/2008 9:36:27 PM)
[sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif] Finally someone with some common sence. ___________________________________________ Resident Secret Agent

DomKen -> RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. (9/2/2008 9:41:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY You link poorly. Please point out in any of your references where forced conversion is stated to be church policy. Firm What's poor about my linking? I do find it funny that Chalcedon has scrubbed their creed from their site. However the wayback machine still has it. quote: A Christian Reconstructionist is a Theonomist. Theonomy means "God's law." A Christian Reconstructionist believes God's law is found in the Bible. It has not been abolished as a standard of righteousness. It no longer accuses the Christian, since Christ bore its penalty on the cross for him. But the law is a description of God's righteous character. It cannot change any more than God can change. God's law is used for three main purposes: First, to drive the sinner to trust in Christ alone, the only perfect law-keeper. Second, to provide a standard of obedience for the Christian, by which he may judge his progress in sanctification. And third, to maintain order in society, restraining and arresting civil evil. http://web.archive.org/web/20030216120101/http://www.chalcedon.edu/creed.html So what is "God's Law" for dealing with unbelievers? Deuteronomy 13:6 to 10 makes that pretty clear. I personally intend to avoid be stoned to death if possible.

rulemylife -> RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. (9/2/2008 9:47:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy So if McCain gets a majority of women voters, which should happen, since he will be getting a majority of white voters, then it will be fair to say that majority of women of America agree with the policies and direction of the Republican party? And thus McCain/Palin reflect the actual mood of American Women and Women's Issues??? OK, yes. The point being?

rulemylife -> RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. (9/2/2008 9:55:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Thadius Should we start digging for stuff on Pelosi's 5 kids? She is just 2 heartbeats from the whitehouse? As I've said, there was no need to dig. Palin is smart enough to know the positions she put would have to put her family in and chose her ambitions over her family. This is not a case of media muck-raking.

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