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A question after watching the first day of the Republic... - 9/2/2008 8:24:04 PM   
SilverMark


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Status: offline 		Just a question ....If the Republicans have held the White House for the last 8 years why now, do they think McCain/Palin will reform Washington. Why have they waited until now?
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RE: A question after watching the first day of the Repu... - 9/2/2008 8:31:11 PM   
Celeres


Posts: 166
Joined: 3/9/2008
Status: offline 		Well... in the White House, as well as many other positions of power, time moves much quicker than one really thinks. Think of President Bush's last 8 years. First year or so was getting used to the White House. Second year, when he finally learned the ropes, and was able to REALLY command and lead, our nation was under attack. Before he knew it, he was running for re-election. After narrowly winning re-election, he had to focus on reuniting this nation (as he only won with a narrow margin). In fact, it all came down to a bunch of hanging chad. (And yes, the plural of "chad" is "chad") hah

Anyway, with that out of the way, the Dems retook Congress and since President Bush is a lame-duck president, there really is not much for him to do since Democrats (just like the Republicans did under Clinton) held key legislation back, and sent forward ones that President Bush had to veto. I honestly believe that President Bush really wanted to change and reform our entire nation and he did what he thought was best for the nation. However, in the end, we live in a democracy where the voice of the many are heard, instead of one single voice from behind the Resolute Desk.

Also, a smaller detail which is probably overlooked since it was nearly 8 years ago, but President Bush was not given a "Honeymoon Phase" from the media. Traditionally speaking, First-term presidents are given a couple of weeks, to a couple of months to, in essence, "get their act together." President G. W. Bush was pretty much in the cross-hairs the moment he took office.

I hope that answered your question, from my personal opinion.

--Celeres

(in reply to SilverMark)
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RE: A question after watching the first day of the Repu... - 9/2/2008 8:34:28 PM   
Thadius


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Status: offline 		Perhaps it has something to do with the same guy that Dems were pointing to as a reformer, bipartisan, and example of what folks in DC should be like?  A person that has had a very rocky road with Reps over the years because he has stepped across the aisle.  From what I understand about Palin, is that she took on the corruption in her home state, and not the easy way of pointing the finger at the other party, but the leadership of her own party.

I can see how that argument could be made.

Speaking of tonights speeches, I enjoyed Lieberman's speech.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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RE: A question after watching the first day of the Repu... - 9/2/2008 8:37:58 PM   
SilverMark


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Status: offline 		Although I am not a fan of Lieberman his speech was good. I thought Fred Thompson's was not so great, especially for a man who has spent so much time as an actor. His delivery was so poor, it took away from what he had to say.

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RE: A question after watching the first day of the Repu... - 9/2/2008 8:58:19 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
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Status: offline 		People forget that political parties are nothing but a collection of individuals that share a common theme. They may shrare beliefs on many of the same issues but each person is different. And that goes for both parties. There are pro-choice Republicans just like there are pro-life Democrats. They exist, I've met both types. There are pro-war Democrats and anti-war Republicans. They arnt the majority in their respective parties, but they exist.

Bush and McCain are two different people no matter how much the Obama campaign tries to tell you otherwise. Im sure you paid attention to the bitter Republican primary battle back in 2000. These two do not get along on on everything. And that is why many in the Republican party just a few months ago claimed they would never vote for McCain.

One thing you cant say about Obama is that he's bipartisan. McCain however has a strong record of reaching accross the aisle and working with Democrats much to the dismay of many Republican loyalists. Now maybe Obama will work with Republicans if he's elected. I dont know. But looking at his history with the senate....he does not reach across. He tows the party line.  So with Obama we are likely to have more of the same old partisan politics.

< Message edited by cyberdude611 -- 9/2/2008 9:00:33 PM >

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RE: A question after watching the first day of the Repu... - 9/2/2008 9:03:50 PM   
Celeres


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

Perhaps it has something to do with the same guy that Dems were pointing to as a reformer, bipartisan, and example of what folks in DC should be like?  A person that has had a very rocky road with Reps over the years because he has stepped across the aisle.  From what I understand about Palin, is that she took on the corruption in her home state, and not the easy way of pointing the finger at the other party, but the leadership of her own party.

I can see how that argument could be made.

Speaking of tonights speeches, I enjoyed Lieberman's speech.


Despite how people believe or say or hear things about Gov. Palin, she has rattled the cage in her own party. For that, you have to give her credit. As for Lieberman's speech, I agree with certain commentators who point to the fact that if that had been his acceptance speech for the VP pick, he would only have to strike out everything about Gov. Palin and accept the endorsement. His repeated statements about "reaching over" and "working with..." and "coutnry first" really seems to echo in my, what a VP candidate SHOULD be like.

And as for more reactions on tonight, I'll save it for the proper thread.

--Celeres

(in reply to Thadius)
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RE: A question after watching the first day of the Repu... - 9/2/2008 9:10:32 PM   
Celeres


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

People forget that political parties are nothing but a collection of individuals that share a common theme. They may shrare beliefs on many of the same issues but each person is different. And that goes for both parties. There are pro-choice Republicans just like there are pro-life Democrats. They exist, I've met both types. There are pro-war Democrats and anti-war Republicans. They arnt the majority in their respective parties, but they exist.

Bush and McCain are two different people no matter how much the Obama campaign tries to tell you otherwise. Im sure you paid attention to the bitter Republican primary battle back in 2000. These two do not get along on on everything. And that is why many in the Republican party just a few months ago claimed they would never vote for McCain.

One thing you cant say about Obama is that he's bipartisan. McCain however has a strong record of reaching accross the aisle and working with Democrats much to the dismay of many Republican loyalists. Now maybe Obama will work with Republicans if he's elected. I dont know. But looking at his history with the senate....he does not reach across. He tows the party line.  So with Obama we are likely to have more of the same old partisan politics.


I suppose it's a good thing that it's a Democratic Congress eh? Hah, only kidding of course. But I think it goes deeper than "political belief." I think that (personal) "belief" takes a backseat to "political stance." Look in any election, it is not the "beliefs" of a politician that get them elected. It is what they say that they stand for. It is what their "voting" record has shown in the past. I strongly believe that there are pro-life politicians who have voted in favor of pro-choice legislation, not because of their own personal beliefs, rather their political gains from that vote.

Also, something a lot of people do not realize, is how a specific politician's votes are tallied. Unless there is a Roll-Call vote requested (which is very time-intensive--unless it is a big ticket item, for instance the Iraq War, Pro-Choice, Pro-Life), there's no way to prove how a specific politician voted. They can say something to the media and in public, but something very different in the monotonus drone of "yea" or "nay" inside the actual chambers.

(in reply to cyberdude611)
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RE: A question after watching the first day of the Repu... - 9/2/2008 9:14:17 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
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Status: offline 		"Reforming Washington" is popular on the public agenda every few election cycles.  "Throw the bastards out!"  "Term limits!" "Career politicians"  "Too much pork-barrel politics!"
 
Any of these phrases sound familiar? 
 
The cycle of this agenda becoming popular with the public is much like one of those couples who are continuously breaking up and getting back together then breaking up and then getting engaged and then throwing each others clothing out the window and then...
 
A dysfunctional love-hate relationship to be sure... 
 
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark
Just a question ....If the Republicans have held the White House for the last 8 years why now, do they think McCain/Palin will reform Washington. Why have they waited until now?


_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to SilverMark)
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RE: A question after watching the first day of the Repu... - 9/2/2008 9:24:30 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark
I thought Fred Thompson's was not so great, especially for a man who has spent so much time as an actor. His delivery was so poor, it took away from what he had to say.



           Really?  I thought his performance as the storyteller was very good.  Simple, plainspoken, with that great low and slow voice.  It was certainly very different in style from anything I saw last week.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: A question after watching the first day of the Repu... - 9/2/2008 9:33:11 PM   
cyberdude611


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Status: offline 		By the way I thought it would be fun to switch back and forth between FOX and CNN. You do that right after the speeches and.....my god.....the anti-GOP bias on CNN was unbelievable. I mean Fox did sort of give a conservative spin to the whole thing but they didnt over do it. CNN went WAY to the bias end of the scale. Big time....

You dont always see the difference unless you quickly flip back and forth. When you do that, the difference is astounding.

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RE: A question after watching the first day of the Repu... - 9/2/2008 9:38:00 PM   
Thadius


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Status: offline 		Hehe, you should try catching the coverage on MSNBC.  I watch it to see what some of the regular posters are going to be talking about.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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RE: A question after watching the first day of the Repu... - 9/2/2008 9:51:18 PM   
Celeres


Posts: 166
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Status: offline 		I live in the Bay Area, without cable, and I'm switching between PBS (no real commentary until after speeches) and NBC, CBS, and ABC. It's funny to see which networks cover which certain speeches, haha.(and which they commentate over or cover other news, hah)


< Message edited by Celeres -- 9/2/2008 9:59:52 PM >

(in reply to Thadius)
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RE: A question after watching the first day of the Repu... - 9/2/2008 10:41:05 PM   
BitaTruble


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

Just a question ....If the Republicans have held the White House for the last 8 years why now, do they think McCain/Palin will reform Washington. Why have they waited until now?


Mark .. you don't really believe the republicans want McCain to reform Washington do you? They tried to crucify him in 2000 so he wouldn't be able to do that very thing!  It's rather ironic that anyone ever talks about flip-flopping since the entire Republican party has done that very thing when it comes to McCain. ::chuckles:: It's all good though. Ol' Johnny is towing the party line now like a good boy .. for now.

I have this feeling in my gut that we're going to see a different John McCain should he win the election .. one that will be a bit of a surprise to most of the folks who actually vote for him .. but probably not so much for those who wouldn't vote for him, but sort of have a grudging respect for the John McCain of old.

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: A question after watching the first day of the Repu... - 9/2/2008 10:48:10 PM   
BitaTruble


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From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

Although I am not a fan of Lieberman his speech was good. I thought Fred Thompson's was not so great, especially for a man who has spent so much time as an actor. His delivery was so poor, it took away from what he had to say.


I wasn't that crazy about Thompson's speech either.. but because of content, not style. I'm not that interested in hearing a rehash of 30 year old history and a repeat of the inexperience diatribe we've been hearing for the last 18 months although I do think Thompson has a very sexy style ::grins::  but ... I'm more about .. 'what have you done for me lately.' On the other hand, while I thought Lieberman's speech okay, it was also a little .. sad for me to watch him. It seemed pretty obvious to me that he was disappointed not to get the VP nod and I don't think he realizes what he means to the republican party which is basically.. not much. :(





_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to SilverMark)
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RE: A question after watching the first day of the Repu... - 9/2/2008 10:53:15 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
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Status: offline 		He will be the next Sect of State, if McCain wins.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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RE: A question after watching the first day of the Repu... - 9/2/2008 11:03:33 PM   
slvemike4u


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Status: offline 		I hope he has a good fall back position,because he has burned his bridges completely and irrevocably with the Democratic party .There was an expectation he would endorse and extol his buddy McCain, but he did some attacking too didn't he....

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: A question after watching the first day of the Repu... - 9/2/2008 11:26:38 PM   
BitaTruble


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

He will be the next Sect of State, if McCain wins.


That's because he means something to John McCain, though.. not because he means something to the republican party.

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to Thadius)
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RE: A question after watching the first day of the Repu... - 9/3/2008 12:43:39 AM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		I spent all of today dealing with family issues.  Hopefullly tomorrow will ease up a bit and I can catch up on the speeches. 

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to BitaTruble)
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RE: A question after watching the first day of the Repu... - 9/3/2008 1:57:43 AM   
Celeres


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

I wasn't that crazy about Thompson's speech either.. but because of content, not style. I'm not that interested in hearing a rehash of 30 year old history and a repeat of the inexperience diatribe we've been hearing for the last 18 months although I do think Thompson has a very sexy style ::grins::  but ... I'm more about .. 'what have you done for me lately.' On the other hand, while I thought Lieberman's speech okay, it was also a little .. sad for me to watch him. It seemed pretty obvious to me that he was disappointed not to get the VP nod and I don't think he realizes what he means to the republican party which is basically.. not much. :(



There was a vague funereal tone in Lieberman's speech. He was definitely disappointed. That's politics for you... no matter how well or how close you get to someone, they'll turn on you to score a couple more votes. As I was saying on probably another thread, Lieberman's speech sounded much like a "victory" speech with concessions to Gov. Palin. All that jazz about "reaching over the isle" and "country first" resonates to me what a VP candidate would say to further validate the Presidential nominee. I felt a bit sad for Lieberman when he delivered his speech because  he wasn't enthusiastic about giving it.

In fact, I bet, if McCain had announced his VP before the DNC, Lieberman might have gone to the DNC instead. He missed his chance at the DNC, and he couldn't very well take a backseat in this election, especially since his name was on the backburners for the McCain Ticket.

I geniunely think that Lieberman (although I don't really like him too much politically), got hosed. He got the shaft.

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RE: A question after watching the first day of the Repu... - 9/3/2008 3:02:58 AM   
SilverMark


Posts: 3457
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Status: offline 		Just asking the question Bita, My views on such things are fairly well known<s>
M

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