A question about labels

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InTheMind -> A question about labels (11/26/2005 2:48:13 PM)
Greetings, I've been wondering how people pick between the labels 'submissive' and 'slave'. I know that in this community there are more or less standard definitions of terms, but surely most submissives and slaves have there own internal beliefs which don't neatly fit any definition. A book titled The Lesbian S/M Safety Manual, edit by Pat Califia, attemps to break down sumissive/slave mentality into nine sub-types, from Kinky Sensualist to Consensual Total Slave With No Limits. I'd be very interested in a survey of how slaves/submissives on this board fit into these categories, if at all. Here's a link: http://www.mistressmatisse.com/slavetraining.html. The categories are at the end of the page. The material is copyrighted and a bit long, so I don't want to post it here. Even if you don't want to read the list, I'd really appreciate hearing thoughts on the issue. Regards, ITM

slavejali -> RE: A question about labels (11/26/2005 3:05:24 PM)
i would fit somewhere between 8 and 9. i deliberately included 9 as my personal "limits" do not exceed Masters own limits, so there is never a question about being told to do something i couldnt do (even if i hesitate at first or ..) and there is no play Master likes that i would have any problem with, so for me, there are no limits in our relationship as far as my slavery goes with Master.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: A question about labels (11/26/2005 3:13:17 PM)
Oh god I hate that levels thing. If there's anything that most reinforces the notion that slaves think they are hotter stuff than subs...it's that. I decide based on my own definitions, my own resonances, and my own orientations. Nothing more or less. A ton of people would tell me I'm completely wrong. A ton of people would tell me I'm completely right. None of that matters.

JohnWarren -> RE: A question about labels (11/26/2005 3:15:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross Oh god I hate that levels thing. If there's anything that most reinforces the notion that slaves think they are hotter stuff than subs...it's that. I decide based on my own definitions, my own resonances, and my own orientations. Nothing more or less. A ton of people would tell me I'm completely wrong. A ton of people would tell me I'm completely right. None of that matters. I'm with you on the hierarchy thing. What matters is how well the behavior fits the person not where it lies on someone's list. If someone wants to be spanked a few times in the bedroom, that's what's perfect for them and no one has the right to claim "I'm better than you."

slavejali -> RE: A question about labels (11/26/2005 3:22:45 PM)
i love looking at lists and doing little tests and things, for me its not about seeing that your better than anyone else, its just a self evaluation thing. i think the only time anything becomes a "im better than you thing" is from an individual whose sense of self worth needs looking at...a list itself doesnt do that. its all fun grin

InTheMind -> RE: A question about labels (11/26/2005 3:24:24 PM)
quote: Oh god I hate that levels thing. If there's anything that most reinforces the notion that slaves think they are hotter stuff than subs...it's that. I can totally understand why someone would hate trying to label so specifically, or even at all. I don't know that the original list was intended to imply that slave is better than sub, though, as the definition of 9 begins with "A common fantasy ideal which probably doesn't exist in real life." I'm not particularly interested in the labels myself. But I am very interested in knowing what types of power exchange are more or less common, and this seemed a good way to ask the question.

mossy -> RE: A question about labels (11/26/2005 5:14:00 PM)
i am grateful to you for bringing this up at this moment. i had all but given up on my slave status completely. After reading this list which i was surprised to find was very informative, i find myself more on the slave side by a mile. Yet i find it interesting.....that after a failed relationship with a "master".....healing done, time past, i was so ready to respond to you that i was a sub/slave. Truly believing....that by now i was 50/50. i guess somehow...thinking and feeling...the failure of being a live-in...combined with not having a Master now? Somehow made me less of a slave....lol.[:D] Funny...thank you, for asking. Labels? What i label myself...is far worse then what anyone could ever label me. But! i am catching on[;)]

darkinshadows -> RE: A question about labels (11/26/2005 5:22:25 PM)
These tables and lists have no relevance on how a person serve, behaves, or is... It's something else for people to feel more important than others. Peace and Rapture

Rayne58 -> RE: A question about labels (11/26/2005 5:52:07 PM)
Just what I think - To me the word "slave" conjures up the meaning of having no rights and no limits. I am a submissive. I have limits, I have safewords, I can say "no" and explain why not. I live with Master but we have a relationship first and the D/s comes second. It is part of our lives but it is not a "lifestyle".

MHOO314 -> RE: A question about labels (11/26/2005 6:09:41 PM)
I believe there are somewhere ( hmmm need to check the Loving Dominant or a few websites)--that attempt to define those terms--but I have found that it happens in the negotiation, when the relationship is defined--but I'm sure others would disagree--

InTheMind -> RE: A question about labels (11/26/2005 6:29:57 PM)
quote: I believe there are somewhere ( hmmm need to check the Loving Dominant or a few websites)--that attempt to define those terms-- Thanks for your response. I personally agree that it happens in the relationship (that'll certainly be the case for me, since I have almost no experience, just goals). I should say that I certainly didn't mean to be asking "what's the diff. between slave and sub?" I know there are lots of threads to deal with that question. I'm more interested in the psychological variations and the personal opinions. Also, ala slavejali, some people really enjoy lists and quizzes and such. -ITM

starshineowned -> RE: A question about labels (11/26/2005 6:32:45 PM)
quote: i would fit somewhere between 8 and 9. i deliberately included 9 as my personal "limits" do not exceed Masters own limits, so there is never a question about being told to do something i couldnt do (even if i hesitate at first or ..) and there is no play Master likes that i would have any problem with, so for me, there are no limits in our relationship as far as my slavery goes with Master. Agree quote: i love looking at lists and doing little tests and things, for me its not about seeing that your better than anyone else, its just a self evaluation thing. i think the only time anything becomes a "im better than you thing" is from an individual whose sense of self worth needs looking at...a list itself doesnt do that. Agree starshine Happy slave of Master Delvin

OsideGirl -> RE: A question about labels (11/26/2005 7:07:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross Oh god I hate that levels thing. If there's anything that most reinforces the notion that slaves think they are hotter stuff than subs...it's that. I decide based on my own definitions, my own resonances, and my own orientations. Nothing more or less. A ton of people would tell me I'm completely wrong. A ton of people would tell me I'm completely right. None of that matters. Yup. I think the whole submissive vs slave debate is drivel.

ImpGrrl -> RE: A question about labels (11/26/2005 7:09:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: InTheMind Greetings, I've been wondering how people pick between the labels 'submissive' and 'slave'. I know that in this community there are more or less standard definitions of terms, but surely most submissives and slaves have there own internal beliefs which don't neatly fit any definition. There is no standard. It's all about the people IN the relationship.

MsSonnetMarwood -> RE: A question about labels (11/27/2005 5:00:56 AM)
quote: I'm with you on the hierarchy thing. What matters is how well the behavior fits the person not where it lies on someone's list. If someone wants to be spanked a few times in the bedroom, that's what's perfect for them and no one has the right to claim "I'm better than you." Yes and no. 9 Levels is on my "read this!" list for potentials that I'm talking to. While I agree that "ranking" as hierarchy is rather silly, I do think that the article itself is an excellent tool in discussing the possibilities of where these relationships can go. Much like the Kinsey scale, I think "where" one is at on 9 Levels is fluid and changes depending on where one is at in their life and influenced by who one is with. I do find a lot of people though think serving is "all or nothing" or they're well aware they lay somewhere in the middle but have a hard time communicating that.

Littlepita -> RE: A question about labels (11/27/2005 5:08:23 AM)
Well heck the link didn't work for me! [:@] I will say however that I'm very much against labels being put on people. When I first started reading about D/s and being a sub or a slave I often found myself being frustrated. I don't like to cram myself in some mold where I don't get to grow and change as the need or desire arises. In the words of Popeye; "I am what I am" [:)]

Wildfleurs -> RE: A question about labels (11/27/2005 8:48:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: InTheMind Greetings, I've been wondering how people pick between the labels 'submissive' and 'slave'. I know that in this community there are more or less standard definitions of terms, but surely most submissives and slaves have there own internal beliefs which don't neatly fit any definition. A book titled The Lesbian S/M Safety Manual, edit by Pat Califia, attemps to break down sumissive/slave mentality into nine sub-types, from Kinky Sensualist to Consensual Total Slave With No Limits. I'd be very interested in a survey of how slaves/submissives on this board fit into these categories, if at all. Here's a link: http://www.mistressmatisse.com/slavetraining.html. The categories are at the end of the page. The material is copyrighted and a bit long, so I don't want to post it here. Even if you don't want to read the list, I'd really appreciate hearing thoughts on the issue. Regards, ITM I've seen the list before and frankly I just don't find things like that very... illuminating or helpful. I will say that I identify as his slave because well .... I am his and belong to him. I wish I had some more evolved or complex answer but thats about it. C~

veronicaofML -> RE: A question about labels (11/27/2005 10:21:23 AM)
i HATE labels....... but ok i am definitely #8....... but you knew that. MY issue is; this limits thingie? if........IF you readily agree and assume we are not discussing crazy stuff...no dead things and such........no animals....just common reference daily stuff?? i can say there is a LOT i am unfamiliar with and with the RIGHT Ms i am willing to do just about anything within reason. and i mean within reason. "I" find it unreasonable to be in that deprivation thingie..since as a child i was locked in closets and not enjoyed it. just like pain. i dont care where it comes from....i hate pain. it just trips my temper. MY childhood was brutal enough that MOST things in this lifestyle are just reminders...... it is WHY i like domestics ONLY. take care best wishes happy holidays

LadyMorgynn -> RE: A question about labels (11/27/2005 10:23:07 AM)
that's because the end of sentence "." got included in the link. Just copy the link, then paste it into your web browser and delete the "." after .html and it'll work. quote: ORIGINAL: Littlepita Well heck the link didn't work for me! [:@]

veronicaofML -> RE: A question about labels (11/27/2005 10:33:53 AM)
contribute an amount equaling approximately half the household budget. ========= You are TOO nice...... i am used-to----------giving up my entire acct for my Ms..... happy holidays to You.

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