RE: Communicating with the slave or lack there of

RE: Communicating with the slave or lack there of (Full Version)

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MadRabbit -> RE: Communicating with the slave or lack there of (9/6/2008 11:12:03 PM)
kicks the ground she never lets me have any fun....

KnightofMists -> RE: Communicating with the slave or lack there of (9/6/2008 11:12:56 PM)
oh shut up and have a cookie editted to add "hides the milk*

MadRabbit -> RE: Communicating with the slave or lack there of (9/6/2008 11:13:42 PM)
grumbles

underHisWing -> RE: Communicating with the slave or lack there of (9/6/2008 11:14:56 PM)
This is something i found on an old thread that BitaTruble posted and i think it sums it up for me.... The worst punishment is one in which the punishment is remembered, but the crime itself is forgotten. Punishments which do not fit crimes tend to highlight the punishment rather than the reason for the punishment. I prefer effective punishments which teach a lesson, not which necessarily cause pain. i remember the silent treatment and the days without contact, physical or emotional... but i don't remember what i did to deserve it. i also remember the negative emotions quite vividly.

MasterAramis -> RE: Communicating with the slave or lack there of (9/6/2008 11:20:27 PM)
quote: The worst punishment is one in which the punishment is remembered, but the crime itself is forgotten That's really good, I like that - thanks! Aramis

KnightofMists -> RE: Communicating with the slave or lack there of (9/6/2008 11:24:17 PM)
bita does convey some incredible insight with just a few words. I have often thought that punishment to be effective needs to more than just correct the situation. There needs to be a sort of reconcilation. In fact, I think that the reconcilation is key. punishment that do not fit the crime make it impossible for reconcilation to occur. In the whole idea of punishment many seem to focus only on correcting the problem from happening again... the part that gets missed.. is going forward afterwards. If there is no reconcilation.. the pot is not removed from the stove.. it might be on the back burner...but the problem is still simmer and will boil over sooner or later.

YourhandMyAss -> RE: Communicating with the slave or lack there of (9/6/2008 11:49:40 PM)
You don't have to be with someone in real life* ie not in long distance or online only, to have behavior issues with them. Unless I misunderstood your post. quote:* ORIGINAL: yourMissTress But my question to you is this: How do you have behavior issues with someone who is not in your presence? Was it not communicating?

YourhandMyAss -> RE: Communicating with the slave or lack there of (9/7/2008 12:03:08 AM)
Me too, He stoped contact because I'd angered him by behaving poorly in chat one night when another dom got in my face and I told them I didn't give a rats tail what the dom thought. infact i was such a basket case by the time he contacted me, and I was crying all the time and not eating well and not sleeping well and I was sure he was going to release me, and I was kind of mentally really bad off there for a bit, and the trust was kind of damaged and he had to spend a lot of time emotionally repairing that and putting my faith back in him, and in other less severe cases of just deciding not to call cause he didn't feel like dealing with me when I'd annoyed him, the behavoir issues were WORSE when he finally did call than they were before. quote: ORIGINAL: atpeace In my experience, lack of communication left me floundering, Lack of communication for me is the most severe punishment of all and if unwarranted, can be damaging.

AnnaOfAramis -> RE: Communicating with the slave or lack there of (9/7/2008 4:23:36 AM)
quote: I prefer effective punishments which teach a lesson, not which necessarily cause pain. i remember the silent treatment and the days without contact, physical or emotional... but i don't remember what i did to deserve it. This girl agrees with you. What is important is to teach the lesson. What to do going forward... what behavior does the Master want in the future. B.F. Skinner, the behavioral scientist, found that punishment is unpredictable of behavior change. It certainly cannot change the past, and its effect on the future was not scientifically predictable. In other words, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. It can often bring a heap of other issues and cause more problems emotionally, in the long run, than it helps. And, as you stated, when one remembers it but not what one did to deserve it, well, it wasn't very effective! This girl has been teaching many years and teachers nowadays tend to use positive reinforcement as a tool for classroom management. Many traditional animal trainers have also crossed over to positive approaches and this is what is used for dolphins, seeing eye dogs, etc. There are many animals that don't respond to punishment at all (cats for example and most wild animals) and only positive training works for them. (Yes wild animals have to be trained at times believe it or not- zoo animals have to have training to help vets be able to handle them, for example). Anyway, (It is early this morning and this girl has not had her caffeine yet, lol, sorry if this is rambling...) In this girl's opinion, building a strong emotional bond between the Master and slave is what is important and is what enslaves a girl. Creating distance or a vacuum is destructive if a slave feels abandoned or like her Master has withdrawn from her. Master's O.P. (under his slave's profile, lol!) was asked because he has seen this happen over and over again: with this girl's friends, with other slaves who have crossed our path, and his own slave had this happen to her in a former relationship. In some cases it was punishment... at least then there was a reason, one supposes. But in most of the cases, we saw a beautiful slave with so much potential simply abandoned. Often her dominant lived separately- maybe he had another slave, a girlfriend, or a wife, and he would simply go weeks and in some cases even months without calling, emailing, NOTHING. The poor slave would be holding herself in slavery, and not having any feeding of the mastery that a slave so desperately craves and needs. Being an unowned slave with unfulfilled needs is one thing... a girl can get along by herself well enough, even if she craves more. But someone who belongs to someone, needs that person's mastery... needs it to balance her slavery. It is a power exchange.... there needs to be something there to feed her slavery. And these poor girls were just left. In two of the cases the dominant actually up and moved over a thousand miles away. Email/phone contact became infrequent, and visits never occurred. The girl's were abandoned property left in limbo! This sort of treatment appalls this girl's Master. He has seen first hand the damage it has left behind, when these girls turned to her Master for help and support. They felt betrayed, abandoned, and it became hard for them to trust again and to give so easily as they had once. One wonders what the motivation is behind such actions. Did the dominant ever truly care for them, or was he simply hiding behind a title to get a piece of ass on the side, and then when it became inconvenient, or he lost interest, he simply moved on? This is what we have been trying to get our heads around and been wondering just how often this happens... unfortunately it seems all too frequent. Regards, anna

tsatske -> RE: Communicating with the slave or lack there of (9/7/2008 5:01:16 AM)
quote: If your a grown adult, and cant remember to take your medications, or eat, or sleep, or do anything on your own theres a serious problem to me. It screams not only extreme co-dependency issues but a lot of other psychosis's and you should be hospitalized until you can do basic things in life on your own. oh, for FUCK SAKE, are you serriously saying that your definition of when someone needs INPATIENT hospitalazation is when they forget their medication or do not have good sleep patterns? I'm not paranoid, i just thought i was. There really are a bunch of idiots who want every bi-polar person on the planet locked up and never let out, aren't there? Good GOD all mighty. I am Bi-polar. Master knew that before our first meeting. We talked exstensively about EXACTLY what that meant, for me, in my life. I am non-medication managed. That means, by the way, that, with a great deal of work and attention, I manage to be pretty stable. I am fairly out about being mentally ill - but in places where I chose NOT to be out, no one would suspect that I am mentally ill. I go to work everyday, love my job, and impress the hell out of bosses and parents (clients) because I am great at what I do. I don't melt down all over someone elses kids. A NORMAL symptom of bi-polar disorder is resistance to medication. Even though I am non-medication managed, I have other medical problems - I am diabettic, for instance. I must take drugs everyday. Withoug Master in my life, I ask a family member or friend to help me be accountable to take my medication. Once a week, I show someone my pill box, knowing that non-empty boxes will be revealed to another person who cares about me, and then i fill it. It works for me. I have no problem with the fact that you would not need such assistance, but are you honestly saying that that is far too much of an accomadation to my medical condition for the outside world to make, and I should be institutonalized so that no one will have to be so horribly put out? Since drugs become 'evil and bad' to me (in my mind) on a regular basis, another thing I do is say that outloud. Master knows when He needs to keep a closer eye on me and my meds because I am honest with what my head is doing. So, Yes, if I was under undo relationship stress I would be more likely to reject my meds, that is true. That is not the same as saying I would kill myself or jump off a bridge. I have a history of self-injury, or counter-pain. It NEVER happens now becuase my contract states that I must ask permission to practice counter pain. In addition to the fact that He is NOT going to give me permission - the fact is, i am not a drama-whore, and even if I really, REALLY would like to cut myself, asking for him feels drama-whore and manipulative to me, so I am HIGHLY unlikely to ask, forcing me to reject that option. However, if i simply agreed to never do it, when i needed it, i would convince myself that NOW didn't count in that agreement, because we had not taken into consideration how much pain i would be in, right now.... by saying, instead, that I must ask, that pretty much completely controls the behavior. Sleeping is a big issue for most bi-polars. When i live alone, i deal with the insomnia by getting up, playing on my computer, not sleeping, and setting off a manic stage. I have a bi-polar sisterslave, who is not a fulltime sister, not collared to Master, and does not live with us, and this is a real and ongoing problem for her. It is no longer a problem for me, becuase, even if Master does not chain me to the bed, I know that I am not to go out the bedroom door between the time i retire and the time he send me for coffee. pretty simple. I deal better with simple cut and dried expectations in some areas like this. Do I need a master in my life to function? no. Do I need some assistance, from someone, somewhere, to function? In fact, yes, i do. I am able to get it from family, friends, community support, self help groups, ect, ect. I continue to get much of it from those people even with Master in my life, which is as it should be. Master knew these things when he got me, and decided that he could deal with them. I know many people think that mentally ill people should not be in this lifestyle, but they don't have to play with me. The general societal attitude, however, that anything less than perfect mental health should not be allowed to walk around on the streets, is riddiculous. The truth is, if my diagnoises were known, in spite of doing a great job with the kids, I would probably be fired out of reactionary fear. what child care providor would want parents to know that she hired a mentally ill person to care for their children?

hopelessfool -> RE: Communicating with the slave or lack there of (9/7/2008 7:35:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tsatske oh, for FUCK SAKE, are you serriously saying that your definition of when someone needs INPATIENT hospitalazation is when they forget their medication or do not have good sleep patterns? I'm not paranoid, i just thought i was. There really are a bunch of idiots who want every bi-polar person on the planet locked up and never let out, aren't there? Good GOD all mighty. I am Bi-polar. Master knew that before our first meeting. We talked exstensively about EXACTLY what that meant, for me, in my life. ....... Do I need a master in my life to function? no. Do I need some assistance, from someone, somewhere, to function? In fact, yes, i do. I am able to get it from family, friends, community support, self help groups, ect, ect. I continue to get much of it from those people even with Master in my life, which is as it should be. Master knew these things when he got me, and decided that he could deal with them. I know many people think that mentally ill people should not be in this lifestyle, but they don't have to play with me. The general societal attitude, however, that anything less than perfect mental health should not be allowed to walk around on the streets, is riddiculous. The truth is, if my diagnoises were known, in spite of doing a great job with the kids, I would probably be fired out of reactionary fear. what child care providor would want parents to know that she hired a mentally ill person to care for their children? The difference here between said post and your post is this, You know you can live on your own with out your master. (the main point of the post above) You can still live your live ON YOUR OWN (with out a man in your life). Do you need friend support, duh, everyone in life needs support from someone, even if its just their cat. Still, its not your friends responsibility to make sure you take your medication. They will because they love and care, but they can also choose to stop helping if they feel its to stressful, hence the suggestion to learn it on your own, there might not always be someone there. By the time your 18 barring serious medical conditions that prevent it, in my eyes, you should be able to wipe your own ass. Its not ment as insulting but it comes across that way. If you can not live with out someone monitering you 24/7 to take your medication to eat, to sleep, to go to work, every day, every hour of your life I suggest hospitalization... not just impatient but nursing homes and assisted living centers. One your getting the care you need. Two, you are acknowledging that you need this type of help, which instead of crying oh pity me I cant take my medication on time, you saying dont pity me Im doing my best to help myself. Theres a difference in the two. Those that do the former need smacked with a large fish, those that do the latter get kudos from me. YOU get kudos why? You acknowledge you have a problem, and you seek a support system even if is just friends, to keep said problem in check, you dont go and run a mock and try to kill yourself because your not getting attention which is sadly the prevaliant cases of people I know who act like they cant live with a man in their life....... Some people cant live on their own, thats a fact, these people should be in a place to get the help and care they need, be it a nursing home, and assisted living center, a weekly nurse, or inpatient treatment. It might seem harsh, but then life is.

barelynangel -> RE: Communicating with the slave or lack there of (9/7/2008 9:17:57 AM)
Actually, as a woman who was a slave for a very long time, i love the idea of a woman NEEDING a Man and a Master in her life (if she is a slave) because she NEEDS a guiding force in her life. And who flounders without same like a fish out of water and fucks things up pretty good when she is not owned, because welll SHE IS THEN A FISH OUT OF WATER. I find that type of weakness utterly feminine, to me its a natural concept that nature has instilled. I really do not understand why people would get their panties in a twist becaue a woman NEEDS a Master. I mean to me, a woman who is a slave and claims she doesn't NEED a Master but plays one anyway is to me humoring Men, instead of understanding the concept of slavery. I mean hell why else have one unless you need one. It's a weakness -- sure, but its a weakness that is not negative but simply a concept of women existing among Men. I personally loved the weakness in me that my need for my Master's enslavement, mastery, control and hold had on me when i was an actual slave. In this society might that seem weak to some, sure, but what did i care, i was owned fully and completely by a Man i NEEDED to do all of those things so my life stayed on the path towards his expectations and standards cause i pretty much suck when i make these determinations on my own. There are some women who are perfectly content not to NEED a Man guiding their lives, and there are those of us who NEED a Man to guide our lives because who we are and yes because of who the Men are. So i am really not understanding this don't need a Man guiding your life concept that people seem to place a distaste with same. Its a sad day when it is advocated that a woman who is slave by the very core of her being being told you shouldn't NEED a Master. So what if a woman is weak like that, after all she is a woman AND she i a slave. The concept sometimes goes with the former and SHOULD go with the later simply because of her nature. I just thank god there are Men out there willing to be the strength for a woman who is slave who needs him to be the guiding force inher life. Those who feel this is somehow wrong, its not something to concern yourselves with. For those of you who know you need a Master its okay its why you are slave. angel

tsatske -> RE: Communicating with the slave or lack there of (9/7/2008 9:59:48 AM)
'independance' is highly overrated in American society. It is one of those values of which we feel so sure that we would push if off onto other cultures that are doing perfectly well and are perfectly happy with alternative values. It is one of those values which we would allow to overrun other values - like equality - which we SAY we value more. The idea that there is one measure of who is 'independant enough' to be 'allowed' to live and roam freely irks me beyond belief - mostly because people who voice such an opinion set the bar where I could never reach it. And I am pretty damn high functioning, considering my diagnoises. If I can't reach it - and I can go to work every day and do a good job at work, be a student and make good grades, be active socially, ect, ect - how many others are you planning to imprisson in institustions when they can't reach your bar? btw, hopeless, you WERE talking about me. There is no difference between me and me. You were speaking for someone who was responding to my post in which I mentioned that certain things might make it difficult for me to stay compliant to my medication, which is a true statement. Many things make it difficult for me to remain medication compliaint - like the illusion that medication is bad and evil. I am all too aware that friends and family can and do get tired of the responsibilities that they willingly take on, and when they do, they can stop. But the idea that anyone who needs help belongs in a nursing facility in order to keep from burdening somone is - well, just so WHITE. I have worked in nursing homes. 90% of the patients are WHITE. All other races - Black, Hispanic, Asain - care for their own. Another couple of things you notice in these places - the non-White patients - rather Black, Hispanic, or Asain, have 2 other things in common - first, they are the sickest patients there. Their families took care of them at home until it was simply no longer feasable. Two, their rooms are always so full of family you can't get in to clean or take a B.P. constant visitors, even for those that are there for YEARS. My Grandmother lives with my sister. She could no longer live alone. She can not shower herself. She can not wipe herself. If my sister no longer felt she could handle that, that would be okay. but you seem to be suggesting that my grandmother 'belongs' in a nursing facility, because YOU have set a standard. Many people can not live alone, but can and do live perfectly fine with help. Here's another secret for you that you probably won't like, which the mental health community does not like to talk about, either: For those with mental illness at a severly life impacting but yet still highly functioning level - for that boarderline community - who their romantic partner is is often the most important facet in rather they can function, or not. Those with no romantic partners flounder - but do better than those with poorly chosen partnerships, who do horribly. Those with stable partners, however, often function so well that outsiders can no longer detect that they are mentally ill. Those people, of course, should be put away and have the key swallowed, becuase, after all, the clearly NEED their partners, which, according to many like you, is verboten.

catize -> RE: Communicating with the slave or lack there of (9/7/2008 11:29:22 AM)
quote: Keep in mind, I geared this question for those that are slaves. I understand that submissive may wish to interject, but I was really looking at from the standpoint of a slave. I can’t imagine how one’s orientation makes any difference in the reactions to an extended, unexplained lack of communication. Submissive, slave, dominant, master, vanilla spouse, boy/girlfriend, or sibling……if one person in the relationship drops off the face of the earth, or is there physically but stops any meaningful connection through word or deed, the other half of the equation is bound to be affected negatively which, in turn, damages the relationship. I don’t believe a slave would feel the loss any more deeply than anyone else.

catize -> RE: Communicating with the slave or lack there of (9/7/2008 11:34:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bstardsbitch Thankyou ,littlewonder and Missokyst. you both said exactly what was going through my mind lol. I'm a grown up,. running amok doesn't really work once you're past six years old. Crosses ‘run amok’ off my to-do list. [:D]

MasterAramis -> RE: Communicating with the slave or lack there of (9/7/2008 1:37:57 PM)
quote: I have worked in nursing homes. 90% of the patients are WHITE. All other races - Black, Hispanic, Asain - care for their own. This is something that I believe is spot on. When my 92 year old grandmother had broken her hip and decided to give up, my family placed her in a nursing home. It was only a matter of about a week or so before she was taken from us, but I did notice what you mentioned. The area her nursing home was in was in the Hartford which is inner city and there were very few minorities which to me was surprising. The other thing that I was told by the nursing staff is that of the people that were there, very few had contact with their families, some had been there for many years. Again thanks for sharing. Aramis

MasterAramis -> RE: Communicating with the slave or lack there of (9/7/2008 1:42:24 PM)
quote: I can’t imagine how one’s orientation makes any difference in the reactions to an extended, unexplained lack of communication. Well that may be true, but since I deal in slavery, I was interested to hear from the Master slave dynamic, but thanks for posting and your thoughts are appreciated.

hopelessfool -> RE: Communicating with the slave or lack there of (9/8/2008 12:08:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tsatske 'independance' is highly overrated in American society. It is one of those values of which we feel so sure that we would push if off onto other cultures that are doing perfectly well and are perfectly happy with alternative values. It is one of those values which we would allow to overrun other values - like equality - which we SAY we value more. The idea that there is one measure of who is 'independant enough' to be 'allowed' to live and roam freely irks me beyond belief - mostly because people who voice such an opinion set the bar where I could never reach it. And I am pretty damn high functioning, considering my diagnoises. If I can't reach it - and I can go to work every day and do a good job at work, be a student and make good grades, be active socially, ect, ect - how many others are you planning to imprisson in institustions when they can't reach your bar? btw, hopeless, you WERE talking about me. There is no difference between me and me. You were speaking for someone who was responding to my post in which I mentioned that certain things might make it difficult for me to stay compliant to my medication, which is a true statement. Many things make it difficult for me to remain medication compliaint - like the illusion that medication is bad and evil. I am all too aware that friends and family can and do get tired of the responsibilities that they willingly take on, and when they do, they can stop. But the idea that anyone who needs help belongs in a nursing facility in order to keep from burdening somone is - well, just so WHITE. I have worked in nursing homes. 90% of the patients are WHITE. All other races - Black, Hispanic, Asain - care for their own. Another couple of things you notice in these places - the non-White patients - rather Black, Hispanic, or Asain, have 2 other things in common - first, they are the sickest patients there. Their families took care of them at home until it was simply no longer feasable. Two, their rooms are always so full of family you can't get in to clean or take a B.P. constant visitors, even for those that are there for YEARS. My Grandmother lives with my sister. She could no longer live alone. She can not shower herself. She can not wipe herself. If my sister no longer felt she could handle that, that would be okay. but you seem to be suggesting that my grandmother 'belongs' in a nursing facility, because YOU have set a standard. Many people can not live alone, but can and do live perfectly fine with help. Here's another secret for you that you probably won't like, which the mental health community does not like to talk about, either: For those with mental illness at a severly life impacting but yet still highly functioning level - for that boarderline community - who their romantic partner is is often the most important facet in rather they can function, or not. Those with no romantic partners flounder - but do better than those with poorly chosen partnerships, who do horribly. Those with stable partners, however, often function so well that outsiders can no longer detect that they are mentally ill. Those people, of course, should be put away and have the key swallowed, becuase, after all, the clearly NEED their partners, which, according to many like you, is verboten. How Is a nursing home or assisted living phycility, or other wise HELP system different from family? OH thats right, They wont fucking bail on you because they are getting paid to do it as their job. I happen to come from a family of people who apparently enjoy dying, I watched the woman who raised me, take care of her mother, her father, her husbands mother, her husbands father, her son, and finally her husband. None of these people could care for themselves, and I watched my mother near kill herself every day to help these people who couldnt have given two flying fucks when they were healthy. My mother broke her arm helping my father and he was put in a nursing home against our wishes, and in that nursing home with the constant care he need which my mother being the only one with an income could not do, he flourished. So sorry If my dad living 2 extra years he wouldnt have had if he sayed at home, puts me on the Pro help side. Im sorry but when the fuck did life get easy and la la la. Ive been commited twice I know what its like in there, and you know what I know someone smacking me across the face and making ME accountable for MY life, helped ME. Im sorry If i see it as a selfish and manipulative way to keep people in your life that would rather not be there because Oh pitty me I cant remember to take my meds. You go to work, you do your job or you get fired, your held accountable for your actions here. You have children, you children dont do their homework, do you hold them accountable? I was punished as a child there were conquences as a submissive in my partnerships, Im going to make an assumption you follow your owners orders, or you get in trouble. How Is being held accountable for following orders something you can do if its your master or friend but not the doctor? Your doctor is ordering you to take these pills at these times. How is that NOT being guided by someone you trust, I mean I know many doctors arent trustworthy, and if you dont trust your doctor, why are you going to them in the first place. Im sorry but If you can follow your Master and your friends but NOT your doctor, it screams bullshit to me.

MRandme -> RE: Communicating with the slave or lack there of (9/8/2008 4:21:43 AM)
greetings angel! Here is where we agree! grin i need a Master. Will i survive with one? Yes. Will i be happy without one? No. Knowing that someone cares enough to set boundaries on me, to guide me, to be there for me to lean against and allow me to relax the walls i have to have against the rest of the world -- that brings me happiness. i am coming away from a destructive relationship... a year ago i was a wreck from spending nearly ten years being my own emotional support and having no strong hand to guide me. i wasn't sleeping, i didn't eat well, i was merely surviving enough to take care of my family. Then i met my Master. i am relaxed and happy. i smile alot, laugh and giggle and don't get stressed over stuff. Keeping in mind that i suffered a loss right before i met Him, the change in me is obvious. Without Him, i could not have adjusted to that loss. Dragging this post kicking and screaming back to the OP (which from the wording seemed aimed at the Masters rather than the slaves), women intuitively know that when communication ceases in a relationship, it is in trouble. Having been a vanilla, sub and now a slave, i can say it doesn't matter what 'label' is slapped on a women, she will react with the same conclusion. Silence means something bad. As i posted before (back on page two or something) there are times when my Master is not able to be in communication with me, but He makes sure i know how long it will be and what He expects of me during that time, sometimes giving me tasks to do while He is gone so that i feel i am serving anyway. Never is silence used as a punishment. Correction is done in person. Proper correction not only is done without anger, with me knowing what i have done and what is expected of me in the future, but is followed by a hug and a kiss to let me know i am still His good girl. i am under orders to ask i f i am not sure if something is being done for punishment. i can't see that happening, as He always tells me and then asks if there were extenuating circumstances. have a pleasant day, g

lally3 -> RE: Communicating with the slave or lack there of (9/8/2008 5:17:21 AM)
i think id end up feeling after weeks of nothing, that he probably didnt care a hoot about me or how i was handling my life. i would be deeply resentful and we would be left with the question, at what point did he stop being responsible for me and my life and at that point how much of that control became my own and nothing atall, whatsoever to do with him. to be honest i would have to. im someone else, who if there is no control or direction coming from my D i would have to take back control of my life, and as 'control' of my life is a somewhat random, hit and miss affair the patent misery it would cause to me would be enough to develop some pretty strong independence and resistance to his attempt to reasert his Dominance thereafter. he'd have a very stroppy subbie on his hands at best but more than likely than that - a very absent one.

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