Comparing Apples and Oranges (Another Political Thread) (Full Version)

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Celeres -> Comparing Apples and Oranges (Another Political Thread) (9/4/2008 12:48:25 AM)

I, like many curious Democrats, was watching the GOP and hear, first hand what Republicans had to say, before the "liberal" and "conservative" media spun the stories out of proportion or misquote sound bytes. In anticipation to hear Gov. Palin's speech, I was listening to Huckabee's speech.

He said: "'[Gov. Palin] got more votes running for mayor of the town of Alaska than Joe Biden got running for president of the United States,' Huckabee declared, sparking applause."

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/03/bidens_vote_total_higher_than.html

Apparently, the Washington Post disagrees.

Now, I just wonder: what else was said during the GOP that is either misleading, or outright false?



cyberdude611 -> RE: Comparing Apples and Oranges (Another Political Thread) (9/4/2008 12:53:23 AM)

Interesting that they couldnt find anything to attack McCain or Palin so they have to attack Huckabee. Not quite sure the point of that. Palin's speech is what is dominating the news and what will be talked about at the water cooler. Not Mike Huckabee.



Celeres -> RE: Comparing Apples and Oranges (Another Political Thread) (9/4/2008 1:15:10 AM)

True... but the story was posted during Gov. Palin's speech. Maybe the Washington Post wasn't really paying attention to what Palin was saying while drafting that story?

So, I don't think that they "couldn't" find anything to attack with. Rather, the opportunity hasn't shown itself without belaboring previous points from last week or over the weekend.



celticlord2112 -> RE: Comparing Apples and Oranges (Another Political Thread) (9/4/2008 2:49:21 AM)

quote:

Maybe the Washington Post wasn't really paying attention to what Palin was saying while drafting that story?

Ah, so the media's not biased, just incompetent?  This is good to know.



FirmhandKY -> RE: Comparing Apples and Oranges (Another Political Thread) (9/4/2008 4:50:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeres


Now, I just wonder: what else was said during the GOP that is either misleading, or outright false?



Have you considered hyperbole to make a point?

"Libs" have no sense of humor when it's their ox being gored. [:D]

Firm



MistressNew -> RE: Comparing Apples and Oranges (Another Political Thread) (9/4/2008 6:10:46 AM)

Factcheck.org is always a good site:
http://www.factcheck.org/

This article goes more in depth, though.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080904/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_fact_check;_ylt=AoLcLZS9wcor_EG8tSI3f5ph24cA



philosophy -> RE: Comparing Apples and Oranges (Another Political Thread) (9/4/2008 10:13:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY


Have you considered hyperbole to make a point?



.......hyperbole isn't a particulary laudable tool.



FirmhandKY -> RE: Comparing Apples and Oranges (Another Political Thread) (9/4/2008 11:18:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY


Have you considered hyperbole to make a point?



.......hyperbole isn't a particulary laudable tool.


It depends on the context.

In this context, it was funny. And effective.

It got an immediate laugh, and then a bunch of "no sense of humor" "fact checkers" spinning their wheels for hours or days, wasting their time, disproving the "fact" while totally failing to get the joke.

Which gets another laugh.

Very effective, I'd say.

Firm



philosophy -> RE: Comparing Apples and Oranges (Another Political Thread) (9/4/2008 11:30:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY


quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY


Have you considered hyperbole to make a point?



.......hyperbole isn't a particulary laudable tool.


It depends on the context.

In this context, it was funny. And effective.

It got an immediate laugh, and then a bunch of "no sense of humor" "fact checkers" spinning their wheels for hours or days, wasting their time, disproving the "fact" while totally failing to get the joke.

Which gets another laugh.

Very effective, I'd say.

Firm


...ok, but is sauce for the goose sauce for the gander? Would you support in such glowing terms a Democrat who says  that Palin had a lesbian affair with Camille Paglia when she was younger? Just hyperbole, or a lie designed to stick in the minds of weak people?
We've seen too many examples of this sort of stuff in recent years.



housesub4you -> RE: Comparing Apples and Oranges (Another Political Thread) (9/4/2008 1:10:30 PM)

Yea, since Rove works for Fox now I wonder why they don't play this little gem of his

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-jrk2e0MMs

I mean if someone with experience as a Mayor and as a Gov lacked expereince to be on Dem tickets seems they would say the same about McCains choice, But what does Rove know about politics anyway?



thornhappy -> RE: Comparing Apples and Oranges (Another Political Thread) (9/4/2008 3:46:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeres

Now, I just wonder: what else was said during the GOP that is either misleading, or outright false?


Factcheck had a few, from Fred & Joe:
Joe Lieberman and his former Senate colleague Fred Thompson both made misleading claims about Obama in their prime time GOP convention speeches on Tuesday. We've heard two of them before – many times.
  • Lieberman said Obama hadn't "reached across party lines" to accomplish "anything significant," though Obama has teamed with GOP Sens. Tom Coburn and Richard Lugar to pass laws enhancing government transparency and curtailing the proliferation of nuclear and conventional weapons.

  • Thompson repeated misleading claims about Obama's tax program, saying it would bring "one of the largest tax increases in American history." But as increases go, Obama's package is hardly a history-maker. It would raise taxes for families with incomes above $250,000. Most people would see a cut.

  • Lieberman also accused Obama of "voting to cut off funding for our American troops on the battlefield." But Obama's only vote against a war-funding bill came after Bush vetoed a version of the bill Obama had supported – and McCain urged the veto.
Frankly, I think Obama should be stating these, instead of leaving it to folks like Factcheck.  This "above the fray" stuff hasn't worked in the past.

thornhappy




FirmhandKY -> RE: Comparing Apples and Oranges (Another Political Thread) (9/5/2008 8:47:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

...ok, but is sauce for the goose sauce for the gander? Would you support in such glowing terms a Democrat who says  that Palin had a lesbian affair with Camille Paglia when she was younger? Just hyperbole, or a lie designed to stick in the minds of weak people?
We've seen too many examples of this sort of stuff in recent years.


philo ... it was a joke. Taken in that context, I have heard similar things from Democrats, and even LAUGHED with them. Even though they were patently untrue, or fabricated.

Because they were funny jokes or humorous comments, and meant that way, not as serious policy judgments or statements of fact in a court of law.

Firm



philosophy -> RE: Comparing Apples and Oranges (Another Political Thread) (9/5/2008 3:26:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY


quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

...ok, but is sauce for the goose sauce for the gander? Would you support in such glowing terms a Democrat who says  that Palin had a lesbian affair with Camille Paglia when she was younger? Just hyperbole, or a lie designed to stick in the minds of weak people?
We've seen too many examples of this sort of stuff in recent years.


philo ... it was a joke. Taken in that context, I have heard similar things from Democrats, and even LAUGHED with them. Even though they were patently untrue, or fabricated.

Because they were funny jokes or humorous comments, and meant that way, not as serious policy judgments or statements of fact in a court of law.

Firm



...i have absolutely no doubt of your sincerity Firm. i'm sure you see it this way.
However, for myself i'll condemn any lie, even if it is intended to be funny.
i'd rather a campaign be fought on facts and issues, rather than innuendo and rumour. There is stuff flying around Mrs Palin that is similar in tone and i'm waiting for confirmation on a couple of them, a thread on these fora that attempted to paint Mr McCain as frightened of big meetings got a similar response from me.
Not suggesting you're right and i'm wrong or vice versa.....just stating my pov.....



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