RE: Something we can all agree upon in politics? (Full Version)

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LaTigresse -> RE: Something we can all agree upon in politics? (9/6/2008 6:27:12 PM)

Don't get me wrong, I despise the very idea of disrupting the funeral......BUT we have laws and rights in this country. To pick and choose that a right or law should apply to someone we agree with yet not someone we think is behaving morally incorrect denies the very existance of those rights and laws.

Now, if the funeral is being held strictly on private property then considering it criminal tresspass is within the law.

I have to support their right to protestm to protect my own rights. Anything else is hypocrisy.



GreedyTop -> RE: Something we can all agree upon in politics? (9/6/2008 6:30:11 PM)

~FR~
While I agree tat those who protest have the right to express their issues...

ITS A FUNERAL!!!  do they NOT think that the family members who HAVE JUST LOST A LOVED ONE are not going through enough??


to those that protest those funerals, I say FUCK OFF AND DIE PAINFULLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  UNtil/unless YOU are in THAT soldiers shoes, and the shoes of the grief stricken. you have NO RIGHT to protest.. you fucking waste of sperm and oxygen....



GreedyTop -> RE: Something we can all agree upon in politics? (9/6/2008 6:34:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Don't get me wrong, I despise the very idea of disrupting the funeral......BUT we have laws and rights in this country. To pick and choose that a right or law should apply to someone we agree with yet not someone we think is behaving morally incorrect denies the very existance of those rights and laws.

Now, if the funeral is being held strictly on private property then considering it criminal tresspass is within the law.

I have to support their right to protestm to protect my own rights. Anything else is hypocrisy.


LaT.. *adores you*

protesting it is fine.. doing it DURING and AT the ceremony sucks serious donkey ass as far as I am concerned.   HAVE RESPECT for the grief of the families, if nothing else (not aimed at you, personally, you gorgeous wench)



LaTigresse -> RE: Something we can all agree upon in politics? (9/6/2008 6:36:41 PM)

GT I knew that and I agree with you completely.

I was just defining the difference between my moral feelings and the rights we all have to protect, whether we agree with the use, even abuse in this case, of them.



GreedyTop -> RE: Something we can all agree upon in politics? (9/6/2008 6:39:03 PM)

*smooch* have I mentioned I adore you?

well said, lovely lady , thank you for the clarification!



celticlord2112 -> RE: Something we can all agree upon in politics? (9/6/2008 6:39:09 PM)

quote:

I have to support their right to protestm to protect my own rights. Anything else is hypocrisy.

They can protest--elsewhere. 

The right of free speech does not give one leave to falsely shout 'fire' in a crowded theater, nor does it give one leave to willfully inflict distress on the bereaved by disrespecting their moment of grief simply to make petty politics.



Jeffff -> RE: Something we can all agree upon in politics? (9/6/2008 6:41:40 PM)

No one has the right to intrude on others grief.

Jeff



TheHeretic -> RE: Something we can all agree upon in politics? (9/6/2008 6:42:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Obama thinking "We had it coming."


Rich, has Obama actually said that?!



        In that phrasing?  Not that I'm aware of, DC.  The context you snipped from was a hypothetical editorial cartoon.  The sentiment that we brought it upon ourselves?  Yes, I do think he believes that.  Not in a gleeful, shameful joy kind of way, but just as a matter of fact.



LaTigresse -> RE: Something we can all agree upon in politics? (9/6/2008 6:42:55 PM)

The theatre is not public property. That gives the theatre the legal right to remove offending parties. They can stand out on the street and yell fire all they want. Unless of course they are doing something else that gives law enforcement reason to act.



LaTigresse -> RE: Something we can all agree upon in politics? (9/6/2008 6:46:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

No one has the right to intrude on others grief.

Jeff


Morality and legality are vastly different.

Just because it is offensive and hidious to us does not make it illegal.



thishereboi -> RE: Something we can all agree upon in politics? (9/6/2008 6:49:01 PM)

Well, at least in Illinois, they have to keep their protests away from the funeral.

http://www.standingupforillinois.org/homefront/casualty.php

The "Let Them Rest in Peace Act," protects grieving lllinois families from vile protests intended to disrupt funerals of servicemen and women who have given their lives in the Global War on Terror. Sponsored by Rep. Brandon Phelps (D-Norris City) and Sen. A.J. Wilhelmi (D-Joliet), this law establishes a zone of privacy to protect mourners at funerals from hate groups seeking to use vile signs and epithets to heckle and harass them. The legislation, which has become a national model, was signed into law in May 2006 and now protects every Illinois family's fundamental right to conduct a funeral with reverence and dignity.

I thought more states had passed this, but I can't find it right now.



Jeffff -> RE: Something we can all agree upon in politics? (9/6/2008 6:49:56 PM)

I meant morally. Legally it is no different than screaming "baby killer" at women walking into an abortion clinic.

Jeff



celticlord2112 -> RE: Something we can all agree upon in politics? (9/6/2008 6:51:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

The theatre is not public property. That gives the theatre the legal right to remove offending parties.

Neither is a grave site, nor a funeral home.



Thadius -> RE: Something we can all agree upon in politics? (9/6/2008 6:51:11 PM)

Kentucky is either in the process or already has. I know a few other states are trying to get it passed.  The various names are "Funeral Protection Act" and similar themes.



sirsholly -> RE: Something we can all agree upon in politics? (9/6/2008 6:54:28 PM)

There was a very heavy police escort at my late husbands funeral for this very reason. I was totally unaware of why they were there or what could have occured. Truthfully, one single protest would have cost my sanity.

LaT said they have the right to protest...and they do. But where was my right to say goodbye in private... not surrounded by guns and badges?



LaTigresse -> RE: Something we can all agree upon in politics? (9/6/2008 6:56:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

The theatre is not public property. That gives the theatre the legal right to remove offending parties.

Neither is a grave site, nor a funeral home.



Of course, and if they are tresspassing, they can be charged. No one specified the location of the protestors.

As Jeff said with the abortion clinic protestors. While I disagree morally with abortion I hate the tactics of the protestors. I think they are disgusting and extremely offensive. Yet, as long as they are complying with the laws in place they have a right to do what they are doing.



kittinSol -> RE: Something we can all agree upon in politics? (9/6/2008 7:06:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

Sponsored by Rep. Brandon Phelps (D-Norris City) and Sen. A.J. Wilhelmi (D-Joliet), this law establishes a zone of privacy to protect mourners at funerals from hate groups seeking to use vile signs and epithets to heckle and harass them it right now.


Phelps? That's an amazing coincidence, because the leader of the Westoboro church is called Fred Phelps. Westoboro Church and the entire Phelps family are crazy insane Baptists who spew their hate and delight at the death of fallen soldiers at their funerals (they also hate Jews, of course, and America altogether). They have been somewhat protected by the First Amendment, but they're insanely disruptive (I'm not including any links of clips, because they're too gross - but they're easily researched.)

PS: Just read up on them again, and whilst they call themselves Baptists, they aren't, in fact, affiliated with any Baptist church or organisation.



thishereboi -> RE: Something we can all agree upon in politics? (9/6/2008 7:10:38 PM)

Yea, I did a double take on the name also. I think they had a lot to do with the bill being passed too.



Thadius -> RE: Something we can all agree upon in politics? (9/6/2008 7:18:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

Sponsored by Rep. Brandon Phelps (D-Norris City) and Sen. A.J. Wilhelmi (D-Joliet), this law establishes a zone of privacy to protect mourners at funerals from hate groups seeking to use vile signs and epithets to heckle and harass them it right now.


Phelps? That's an amazing coincidence, because the leader of the Westoboro church is called Fred Phelps. Westoboro Church and the entire Phelps family are crazy insane Baptists who spew their hate and delight at the death of fallen soldiers at their funerals (they also hate Jews, of course, and America altogether). They have been somewhat protected by the First Amendment, but they're insanely disruptive (I'm not including any links of clips, because they're too gross - but they're easily researched.)

PS: Just read up on them again, and whilst they call themselves Baptists, they aren't, in fact, affiliated with any Baptist church or organisation.


I know the exact group you are speaking about... I had the pleasure of introducing myself to them.  They go well beyond anything tolerable, and spew nothing but hate towards every group except their own.  Which leads me to hope they will die out from lack of breeding, but that is another story.



kittinSol -> RE: Something we can all agree upon in politics? (9/6/2008 7:46:35 PM)

I saw a BBC documentary by Louis Theroux (The Most Hated Family in America), which is how I first heard of them... Westboro Church is an unbelievable setup, and really quite disturbing. It's heartbreaking: I find it hard to believe that it's okay to raise your children like they do, to the point where they become parias for the rest of society (their 'beliefs' are beyond unacceptable). It's tantamount to child abuse - these poor kids... one little boy who had been taken to one of their pickets was hit by a bottle or a can from a passing car. That's another subject... but to go back to the OP, I think we can all agree that Westboro Church is an infamy. I wouldn't be able to actually talk to them - I'm not cool headed enough.



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