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RE: Government to seize Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac - 9/8/2008 11:09:04 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

Hooray! At last! A centralized government agency which will decide which americans can qualify for a home of their own! What could POSSIBLY go wrong?


LMAO!

so has anyone wrote congress over this?  if so what did you say?

(in reply to bipolarber)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Government to seize Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac - 9/8/2008 12:22:29 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		bipo, LOL. I would like to work that into a structured joke, something new for the humor section, no matter how it was meant. I would have to get Murphy's first law in there somehow. I have always wanted to write a joke and have "back figured" a few. All the subject matter needs is a different setup and execution. If I do this I hope you don't mind me using your statement in it. Don't get me wrong, I agree with you and fully understand the cynicism which impelled the sarcasm. You simply beat me to it.

hunky, I don't think a whole lot of people want me to write congress. I would advocate that they let the whole thing go down and the market will stagnate until CEOs and board members stop raking off so much, and things return to normal. What people don't understand is the strength of market forces. If something is not selling, for whatever reason, the price WILL drop. I tried to make this point earlier but nobody seems to get it. Well some do. That is why it is not called the regulation of supply and demand. Nor is it called the statute of same, nor the code of same, it is called the LAW of supply and demand. That which ultimately did set the price of everything in the world. Of course there has been some tampering, but if we stop things will come back into balance.

So let them let Fannie and Freddie expire, let FHA go as well. Let the banks take their own risks and make sure only qualified people get the house. In time, with less borrowers they will have to competitive on APR. As such, when business is slow they will probably raise other fees and charges. An America with a backbone could quit having checking accounts because of the high fees.

Then they are forced to write more loans, give them lower rates to competitive. The market has shrunk and they haved to adjust or expire. No more tax money guaranteeing the loans. Another poster stated it, but I deem it appropriate to reiterate now : The federal government has absolutely no obligation nor authority to guarantee loans. (I may have made an improvement on that).

If these "privately held" loan guantors want to operate that business, let them make their case to private investors. Let them say "These people would have to pay rent anyway". Let them say whatever it takes, and let them make a contract with their "member" banks on just what the criteria will be in determining who is bankable and who is not.

Talk about putting your money where your mouth is, but that is how it used to be. The government bailed Chrysler out. Lee Iacocca became some sort of hero, though I see no reason for that. He got fired from Ford for his ideas and even though he had a big hand in the design of the Mustang, it probably wasn't that great of a moneymaker. Even if it was, for some reason they got rid of him. Although I do consider Chryslers to an inferior product compared to GM and even Ford, that is not why I was against the bailout.

I was against the bailout because it used up tax dollars. That is the reason I am against this bailout. Think of this, would this be a good time to invest your personal money in Freddie or Fannie ? If people would, they wouldn't need a bailout, but such an investment at this time is nothing but a giveaway. So they force us to do it through taxation.

In an economy that follows the natural LAWS of economy, these entities should either fail or be bought up by someone who knows how to run them (hopefully).

As these natural market forces affect the housing/real estate industry, we may again someday be able to buy a decent house for seventy or eighty grand. You almost can now. Right now anything that cheap is usually a serious fixer upper or a shoebox. That doesn't change the fact that alot of people will be signing leases, and establishment figures say that there are going to be alot more foreclosures. What happens when Freddie and Fannie need yet another bailout ?

Yup, maybe I am chicken little, but this time the sky really is falling.

T

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Government to seize Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac - 9/8/2008 1:15:48 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

(fast reply)
This whole situation reminds me of the S&L crisis....banks took crazy investment risks on instruments that they didn't understand.  But that was ok, because the feds would bail them out.  Now it pisses me off to hear of hedge funds and brokerage firms being bailed out.  So much for the corrections of a free market.

thornhappy

That's exactly right. Anyone who pisses and moans about janitors living in mansions completely misses the point. It has been the explicit policy of the Busheviks to put everyone who wanted one, into a house, regardless of ability to pay. Now no banker in his right mind would write an interest-only or negative amort loan and assume the risk of default. The secondary markets for CDOs were a way to shift risk to a quasi-governmental agency (and, ultimately, taxpayers) while the rich Repub bankers pocketed the profits. Why do you all think mortgages are all front-loaded? The first 6 years of a 30 year conventional are the gravy for the lenders. There's no reason why a straight-line amortization can't be used.

This is all the doings of that cocksucker Phil Gramm, who just happens to be McPOWs economic advisor. He's the fuck who wrote the Enron loophole, too.

And people want to put these motherfucking thieves back in for another 4 years? Christ, it's not possible to be any more stupid than to be a middle-class Republican. Bend over, chumps.

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to thornhappy)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Government to seize Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac - 9/8/2008 9:09:10 PM   
UncleNasty


Posts: 1108
Joined: 3/20/2004
Status: offline 		Actually Hip, it is possible. A lower class republican.

My state is full of them, as is the rest of the south and most of rural America. They go on about their guns, and the Bible, and family values. They hardly have a pot to piss in but they fail to make the connections.

I'm a cross between a Constitutionalist and a Libertarian. I'd have voted for Ron Paul though. Since he lost the nomination I've been suffering from electile dysfunction.

Uncle Nasty

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Government to seize Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac - 9/8/2008 9:46:42 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UncleNasty

Actually Hip, it is possible. A lower class republican.

My state is full of them, as is the rest of the south and most of rural America. They go on about their guns, and the Bible, and family values. They hardly have a pot to piss in but they fail to make the connections.

I'm a cross between a Constitutionalist and a Libertarian. I'd have voted for Ron Paul though. Since he lost the nomination I've been suffering from electile dysfunction.

Uncle Nasty
"Electile dysfunction." Bada-boom! Great phrase.

I could never vote for Ron Paul. He's a racist who doesn't have the courage to own up to what he wrote years ago.

I'm a Libertarian, too. Libertarian Socialist. Which is what Libertarianism was before the word was co-opted by radical right-wingers. That's another thread, though, as is Constitutionalism. 

Now, the guns/bible/family values shit, that is exactly what Obama pointed out. Naturally what he said got twisted beyond recognition by the RNC's Dept. of Propaganda. But you are right. See it every day here in Atlanta metro. The old country people who have no idea why the new medicare drug plan isn't working out quite like they thought it should, but somehow seem to think that commie environmentalists are responsible, somehow... somehow. How they have been suckered into believing that their taxes have been cut by the Bushzis (being unable to perform simple mathematical calculations and actually compare where they are with where they were), but being totally mystified that their State's services are being cut left and right due to unfunded mandates (no child left behind, anyone?) leaving most states hovering on the edge of bankruptcy. Why their med insurance premiums have gone up at 5 or 6 times the rate of inflation (an average of about 23% per annum for me since I've had to buy my own med insurance) but their quality of care has gone down, to the point of requiring a referral to a specialist for a fucking hangnail. They just don't get it. Guns, gays, anti-choice, and threat level teal is what they vote on.

They don't get that yes, the goods at Wallyworld are absolutely the lowest cost of anywhere, but Wallyworld made a deal to avoid paying property taxes so they could sell that shoddy Chinese shit. Then they wonder why the schools always need more money. Duh. They wonder why the textile plant their fathers worked at are all closed now, while they buy another dozen white socks made by virtual slave labor so the Walton family can have their family compound in Arkansas with its own air and water purification systems, hydroponic underground greenhouses, and every other thing which makes it a self-contained biosphere.

Whatever. Gawd, Republicans are stupid.

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to UncleNasty)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Government to seize Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac - 9/9/2008 9:08:59 AM   
UncleNasty


Posts: 1108
Joined: 3/20/2004
Status: offline 		I love that term, "electile dysfunction," and would love to take credit for it. But alas, I read it in a post here on CM myself.

Uncle Nasty

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Government to seize Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac - 9/9/2008 9:42:25 AM   
subtee


Posts: 5133
Joined: 7/26/2007
Status: offline 		Quote: Did Gov. Sarah Palin of Alaska know what she was talking about when she made her first major statement on domestic economic policy?
In a campaign stop in Colorado Springs over the weekend, Ms. Palin, the Republican vice-presidential nominee, addressed the biggest issue of the day — the government takeover of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the giant mortgage finance companies.
“They’ve gotten too big and too expensive to taxpayers,” she said. “The McCain-Palin administration will make them smaller and smarter and more effective for homeowners who need help.”
Ms. Palin’s statement went largely unnoticed by political reporters, who are often more schooled in political rhetoric than economic theory. But left-leaning blogs and others have picked it up and are portraying it as a gaffe, noting that Fannie and Freddie are not government entities but instead are private-sector companies.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/08/bloggers-pan-palins-first-major-statement-on-economy/

[Edited for clarity]

< Message edited by subtee -- 9/9/2008 9:46:07 AM >

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(in reply to UncleNasty)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Government to seize Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac - 9/9/2008 1:00:32 PM   
StudFL


Posts: 12
Joined: 3/10/2007
Status: offline 		Methinks this is a very bad idea, esp. with the project national dept to nearly double in 09.

(in reply to subtee)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Government to seize Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac - 9/9/2008 1:08:35 PM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee


“They’ve gotten too big and too expensive to taxpayers,” she said. “The McCain-Palin administration will make them smaller and smarter and more effective for homeowners who need help.”


yep, she seems to be confirming the rumours, she's an economic illiterate.

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There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to subtee)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Government to seize Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac - 9/9/2008 1:12:42 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		Actually it is a smart position.  The upper echilon of both companies are making out like bandits on taxpayer dollars.  Both CEOs will be getting golden umbrella payments, for being failures, and that money is coming from the taxpayers pockets.  Shrinking the upper management seems like a very sound policy, at least to me.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Government to seize Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac - 9/9/2008 1:13:23 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UncleNasty

I love that term, "electile dysfunction," and would love to take credit for it. But alas, I read it in a post here on CM myself.

Uncle Nasty



Extensive research has confirmed that came up with the phrase in 2004 on this website. Where are you now, babe? Whether she invented it or not... is another question.


< Message edited by kittinSol -- 9/9/2008 1:14:11 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Government to seize Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac - 9/10/2008 8:53:28 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		HK, you have used the term "front end loaded" improperly. Normal amortization may seem that way, but it is not.

Front end loaded refers to a loan in which all the interest for the life of the loan is added up with the loan amount, and that figure is divided by the number of payments. This means you get no benefit if you pay it off early.

A normally amortized mortgage seems front end loaded because of simple math, but it's not. I'll pick the easiest numbers to work with so I don't have to run to the calculator.

You borrow $100,000 at 12% per annum. That is 1% per month. That means you owe $1,000 interest for using that money for that month. If the payment (strictly P&I) is $1,100 per month, $100 is subtracted from the principal. You now owe 1% of $99,900 which would be $999. With a fixed payment you pay the same $1,100 and the second payment applies $101 to the principal. Then $99,900 minus $101 is $99,799. At the next payment you only owe interest of $997.99, and so forth.

I can see how that can be seen by many as front end loaded, but it is not. That is normal amortization, and the numbers will bear it out. Depending on the term of the loan, the amount that is above and beyond the interest during the first period, say a month is calculated to make it come out to be paid off in the desired term. At the end of the term, almost every dollar you pay goes on the principal.

HK, you probably already understand the process, but I put it out there for anyone who didn't. What I am saying is that this is not referred to as front end loaded.

Alot of people have a hard time figuring the other angle. They will think "I just paid $1,100 and my balance went down only a hundred bucks ? What they don't see is that someone came up with the hundred grand for them. Whoever did could have invested that money somewhere. In a way one could say that they decided to invest in you, especially your ability to replace the income they could have made had they invested it.

That is basically why money costs money. As a loan, you are renting it.

Now it is about time for me to get off here, but before I do I would like to touch upon the OP, actually the title. Some say that was improper wording because the government intends to buy their stock en masse. Well that is going to give them alot of leverage when it comes to the companies' policies and such. I just hope they can find someone who knows what they're doing. As much as many of us don't like the idea of our tax money being used in that way, we can't stop it because they can't let those companies fall. I wish they would, but it is clear that they won't. So again wealth will be transfered from us to ...................................

Who was it who asked who "them"  are ? Follow the money.

T

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Government to seize Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac - 9/16/2008 11:10:29 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
Kinda weird that the party that was swept to power in an orgasm of private sector adulation and psychotic drive to deregulate are now promoting the need for further government regulation and government bailouts.  I wont even mention that I have been maintaining for years that the idiotic war in Pakistan and Iraq would be the death knell of the US economy.  I hate being right.  I can only hope that the people who argued with me hate being wrong just as much.

Be careful what you ask for, Diebold and Karl Rove just may get it for you.

What makes this the most amusing is it was their party's control of both the White House and both houses of Congress created the conditions requiring further government regulation and government bailouts.  In other words, the Republican's deregulate and screw up the economy, and then the Republican's insist on doing things that are basically regulating.  Some people are smart enough to know that if they shoot themselves in the head, it will not have good outcomes.  Perhaps the Republican Party could put an ad on Craiglist.Com for people to clarify cause and effect relationships for them, as well as the valuable life skill of "thinking ahead."

Please dont try to raise the boogie man of Clinton.  When he was in charge he was able to convince the Republican Congress to usher in the largest financial increase in the history of the United States.  When he was not in charge, then the blame can be firmly laid at the feet of the neo-cons who managed the do-nothing Congress and the dipshit in chief who allegedly stole the elections in 2000 by supreme court lawsuit and electoral registration fraud, and 2004 with the assistance of Diebold.

I have not been here for a while, and I am desperately searching for all the people who insisted that George W. Bush was the savior of our economy (2 years ago) who posted their proof of concept that the neo-con ideal was a worthwhile approach.  I look forward to your well researched proof explaing that what your party has done has created a positive outcome for anybody.  I dont really expect you to reply; you are probably all still searching for the alleged WMDs.

Sinergy

p.s.  Merc, I have not forgotten your bet with me, and I will provide you via email with the non-profit you will be paying when the rest of the Republicans (apart from the 38 retiring this year) lose their jobs in the White House (not to mention Congress and the Senate) and you lose the bet.  If you dont recall making a bet with me I will get you the posts to refresh your memory.



_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Government to seize Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac - 9/16/2008 11:11:36 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

Actually it is a smart position.  The upper echilon of both companies are making out like bandits on taxpayer dollars.  Both CEOs will be getting golden umbrella payments, for being failures, and that money is coming from the taxpayers pockets.  Shrinking the upper management seems like a very sound policy, at least to me.


While the concept is sound, part of me thinks it is a waste of a lot of good bullets.

Sinergy


_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Government to seize Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac - 9/17/2008 2:01:37 AM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		We might be able to find some sturdy rope in a few closets around here.

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 55
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