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Green Leader for Brits - 9/7/2008 5:12:45 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
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Status: offline 		I guess only Brits are going to be interested in this.

Is the Green Party turning into a serious party now they have elected a single leader? Having listened to Carloine Lucas, the new leader, she sounds like a leader one can have confidence in. She is intelligent, articulate and armed to the teeth with facts, figures and reasonable and responsible ideas. She recently destroyed the so called evidence of vested interests and the energy industries that green alternative policies were unrealistic. She called Brown spineless for not tackling the energy industry's massive profits, spewing out statistics to show the energy industries were profiteering and not investing profits as they claim. Dismissed the Tories green policies as window dressing and smoke that disperses in the wind. She appears to be a great performer with an eye for detail. Has shown that green policies can save money, not cost money. Dare I say it, in a time of substanceless politics, here seems to be a woman of substance.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/sep/05/greenpolitics

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 9/7/2008 5:14:26 AM >

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RE: Green Leader for Brits - 9/7/2008 5:52:57 AM   
Aneirin


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From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		Well, Britain is in dire need of a leader to inspire, if this person can do that, then why not , as what we have now and the alternatives don't exactly hit the mark. Politics in Britain I feel has become a case of voting for the least worse of the options available, and policies, though they may differ in word and presentation are in reality much the same.

The current leadership is doing it's green thing,in response to rising public awareness, I see only as a means to pander to the rising awareness to maintain their position. The green party is green, it set out to be green and remains green, who knows, they may well have the answers in approaches which seem alien to what dross we have now, as we all have to be honest, it's not really working.

I will wait and see.

< Message edited by Aneirin -- 9/7/2008 5:54:47 AM >

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RE: Green Leader for Brits - 9/7/2008 6:25:44 AM   
meatcleaver


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Status: offline 		My concern is that there has been more news about her in the continetal press than in Britain's. Somehow she has to get the British media interested and that will be more difficult than having policies that stand up to hostile debate. Even when there is something, its pretty light weight. Its terrible when you have to speak German or Dutch to find out about a British politician.

Something from the Independent, a shadow of what I have read about her over here but at least it is something.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/caroline-lucas-you-ask-the-questions-890261.html



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RE: Green Leader for Brits - 9/7/2008 7:39:38 AM   
Politesub53


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Status: offline 		I think the problem for the Green party, will be comming up with an alternative and affordable solution to power. Windmills sound fine, but are too costly to the average householder, it has even been proved that the power output used in manufacturing and installing wind poer for an individual house, uses more energy than than it saves.  Solar panels seem a better idea though, although again cost is a problem. The London Array will prove a great bonus to the UK, if it can be made to work at a sustainable cost. Its the largest project of its type in the world.

http://www.londonarray.com/

I agree about the mainstream press though, anyone with any kind of alternative idea is automatically classed as a nutcase or radical left wing. Nuclear power is cheaper and cleaner than coal, although the long term problem for waste needs some answers. Long term, wind farms may be the answer. Time will tell as to how cost effective they are.

Brown refuses to help with power bills, and instead says money will be spent on insulation, which isnt an answer, as most homes are already insulated. As has been said, both main parties pander to votes, instead of a long term solution. This seems to be the whole approcah either party has these days, and its truly saddening to watch. All voters end up with is more of the same, with a few minor differences.

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RE: Green Leader for Brits - 9/7/2008 9:38:24 AM   
RealityLicks


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Status: offline 		I confess to knowing little about the Greens and refuse the easy solace that the media is to blame.  There's far too much of that on this board without adding to it.  It's down to me to inform myself and I will. (No medals, please)

However, I will say that it's a surprisingly tardy move to adopt a system which will aid getting their message across so late in the party's history.  That doesn't demonstrate to me that these are people with much insight into the real challenges of today's politics - as opposed to understanding the challenges of today's eco-systems, where I hope, for their sake, their strength lies.

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RE: Green Leader for Brits - 9/7/2008 9:46:26 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

I confess to knowing little about the Greens and refuse the easy solace that the media is to blame.  There's far too much of that on this board without adding to it.  It's down to me to inform myself and I will. (No medals, please)



It is still an indictment of the British media that speaking German or Dutch or even French would allow you to source more media coverage of the Green Party than in the British media.

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RE: Green Leader for Brits - 9/7/2008 9:51:09 AM   
Raechard


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Status: offline 		The problem with any green party is this idea they have that they can solve all our energy needs through renewables alone and won't even consider nuclear as an option. A big black hole and the wind doesn't blow all the time.

Anyone who thinks in such an unrealistic way I can never vote for, as for how they run the economy; why would a one trick pony care about the economy?


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RE: Green Leader for Brits - 9/7/2008 9:53:11 AM   
RealityLicks


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Status: offline 		I don't know if that's true and I'd be surprised to see it proven.  If it is, though I'd say it's more to do with the fact that the Greens here see themselves as a pressure group primarily.  They are only now formulating in ways which will spread their influence in an admittedly overly adversarial Uk parliamentary system.  They've been very successful in forcing every party to adopt "green" policies, which might have been a mixed blessing.

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RE: Green Leader for Brits - 9/7/2008 9:57:51 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raechard

The problem with any green party is this idea they have that they can solve all our energy needs through renewables alone and won't even consider nuclear as an option. A big black hole and the wind doesn't blow all the time.

Anyone who thinks in such an unrealistic way I can never vote for, as for how they run the economy; why would a one trick pony care about the economy?



You are reinforcing my position about the lack of information in the British media because that is not the green position. 30% of all energy used in Europe (in Britain it is higher) is wasted. In the US it is something like 55% if I remember rightly. More efficient use of fuel would reduce energy need by a significant margim for a start. There is no need for nuclear, never has been, that has more to do with militarism than energy policy. Its rediculous that as a society we are willing to invest billions in a fuel that will have consequences for thousands of years but only willing to invest a measly eleven million in research for an alternative. Vested interests spring to mind.

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RE: Green Leader for Brits - 9/7/2008 10:22:38 AM   
Raechard


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From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		The problem with renewables is the demand is constant but the supply fluctuates. We could probably get all our power from renewables at keys times of the year but we can't store this power other than to pump water to the top of a dam and release it at times of peak demand. I know no other ways of storing this potential energy? Renewables will never replace a power stations that has a constant output, never. They can only ever be used to lessen the burden on those power stations or enable us to reduce the output required from them.

As to the 30% do you know what that really relates to? There always has to be a failsafe otherwise you'll have no power at times of peak demand and it will be pot luck who gets the power that does exist. Some power will always be wasted because judging how much is needed at any time is a difficult balance and not an exact science, you can't tell a power station to suddenly reduce output and be sure outages won't occur. You are trying to predict how people are using their energy in real time; produce too much output and you are wasting fuel but never ever produce too little that there is a break in supply. Thus energy companies have to play it safe and if you look at 30% waste what is that compared to the range of difference in how many kilowatt hours a person uses from one day to the next?

How do they measure your needs? From what you was using this time last year and if last year you had less hours of sunlight you’ll find huge waste the next year, that’s life. better fuel wouldn’t help the situation as much as being more able to accurately predict demand would.

The way you have to look at it is: the energy companies have to produce the energy that we will never use thus it's unfair to pin the blame on them. They will do what is required to maintain supply and it's up to the consumer to reduce overall demand.

< Message edited by Raechard -- 9/7/2008 10:36:32 AM >

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