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Masters with Vanilla Primary Relationships - 9/7/2008 9:06:54 AM   
TwilightShadows


Posts: 68
Joined: 1/4/2008
From: twilight
Status: offline 		I have a question for the Masters here.  I have been inundated as of late with correspondence from men who are Masters living with vanilla women (many married.) 

The story is often very similar....BDSM is a huge part of who they are, they can't imagine not having D/s in their lives, so they look to submissive women to have as, frankly mistresses in the vanilla meaning of the word.

If the need to be a Master or to live one's life that way was so great, how can they abide being in a vanilla relationship, and are they honest men? 

As a submissive woman who wants one man/master, I don't find this arrangement appealing or beneficial or even remotely fulfilling.  Why are submissive women in this scenario expected to forego a traditional relationship - a man in their life day to day - someone at the table next to them on Thanksgiving? 

I just don't get it.  Thank you in advance for your input.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Masters with Vanilla Primary Relationships - 9/7/2008 9:09:36 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		The most common reason why some men stay in vanilla relationships is...children.

There are many women who do the same.

(in reply to TwilightShadows)
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RE: Masters with Vanilla Primary Relationships - 9/7/2008 9:34:53 AM   
cankles


Posts: 59
Joined: 8/18/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Why are submissive women in this scenario expected to forego a traditional relationship - a man in their life day to day - someone at the table next to them on Thanksgiving?


low self-esteem

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
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RE: Masters with Vanilla Primary Relationships - 9/7/2008 9:44:54 AM   
SoulPiercer


Posts: 374
Joined: 5/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TwilightShadows
Why are submissive women in this scenario expected to forego a traditional relationship - a man in their life day to day - someone at the table next to them on Thanksgiving? 


I don't think submissive women are "expected" to forego a traditional relationship.

The fact is, there are married submissives who look outside their marriages as well.

There are also single submissives who would love to have a married dominant that they can send home as soon as play time is over.



_____________________________

Do you have any idea how many bones you have left for me to break? - Batman

(in reply to TwilightShadows)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Masters with Vanilla Primary Relationships - 9/7/2008 10:05:15 AM   
TwilightShadows


Posts: 68
Joined: 1/4/2008
From: twilight
Status: offline 		How do I make that little box appear here with others remarks in them?  hmmmm..

SoulPiercer, I agree, Sir.  I guess there are many different combinations that make up relationships.  Just one works for me, though.


(in reply to SoulPiercer)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Masters with Vanilla Primary Relationships - 9/7/2008 10:07:07 AM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline 		Using my response as an example, click the quote box at the upper right corner then place your text below the box. Or you can type within the box itself, changing the color of your font to signify your words.

_____________________________


~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).




(in reply to TwilightShadows)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Masters with Vanilla Primary Relationships - 9/7/2008 10:16:08 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TwilightShadows

I have a question for the Masters here.  I have been inundated as of late with correspondence from men who are Masters living with vanilla women (many married.) 

The story is often very similar....BDSM is a huge part of who they are, they can't imagine not having D/s in their lives, so they look to submissive women to have as, frankly mistresses in the vanilla meaning of the word.

If the need to be a Master or to live one's life that way was so great, how can they abide being in a vanilla relationship, and are they honest men? 

As a submissive woman who wants one man/master, I don't find this arrangement appealing or beneficial or even remotely fulfilling.  Why are submissive women in this scenario expected to forego a traditional relationship - a man in their life day to day - someone at the table next to them on Thanksgiving? 

I just don't get it.  Thank you in advance for your input.



Ok, I'm not a "master", and my Darling and I are both strongly dominant women, and enjoy our submissive-type companions... but both of us have had beloveds who were vanilla -- you can love the person and still not have that person be your -everything-... in fact, I think that it is unfair to expect another person to be the 'everything' and 'all' for another person. That's one reason that polyfidelity makes so much sense to me... because I know that I couldn't be everything for my beloveds, and that they, individually, couldn't be everything to me. That doesn't mean that I didn't love them dearly, and have healthy, happy relationships... it just means that some people can offer somethings, others offer something different.

As a very blatant example, I have my Darling, had our beloveds, but -none- of them are or were into my favorite forms of blood-play. I never expected them to meet this need of mine... but I am fortunate, because I don't -have- to depend on them for this. I can find someone who -loves- blood-play to share this with, and still love my Darling and any that we accept as our beloveds, vanilla or otherwise, and be completely forthright in my relationship with them, and I can do that because I am forthright about myself and honest about how I interact with the people that I choose to be involved with.

Calla Firestorm

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to TwilightShadows)
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RE: Masters with Vanilla Primary Relationships - 9/7/2008 10:20:40 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Are you talking about having affairs, or having open honest multiple relationships?

The affairs is usually due to not being secure enough to be honest and make a clean break and having the ego to think they are important enough to "need" to stay with the wife.

The open relationships are because people are THAT complex and they don't see a need to give up the relationships they have, or not have more relationships than just one type.

Who cares what someone expects of "submissive women?"  It only matters what the person you choose to be involved in expects of you.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
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RE: Masters with Vanilla Primary Relationships - 9/7/2008 10:33:46 AM   
TwilightShadows


Posts: 68
Joined: 1/4/2008
From: twilight
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

Using my response as an example, click the quote box at the upper right corner then place your text below the box. Or you can type within the box itself, changing the color of your font to signify your words.


Thank you!

(in reply to camille65)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Masters with Vanilla Primary Relationships - 9/7/2008 10:43:24 AM   
TwilightShadows


Posts: 68
Joined: 1/4/2008
From: twilight
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Are you talking about having affairs, or having open honest multiple relationships?

The affairs is usually due to not being secure enough to be honest and make a clean break and having the ego to think they are important enough to "need" to stay with the wife.

The open relationships are because people are THAT complex and they don't see a need to give up the relationships they have, or not have more relationships than just one type.

Who cares what someone expects of "submissive women?"  It only matters what the person you choose to be involved in expects of you.


I'm talking about affairs....or those that want them. 

This may come across as hypocritical, but the Master who has been dominating and training me is married in an open relationship.  There are no secrets, and I've met his wife on a couple of occassions.  She even joked with me one time about having been releived that he had me to toy with, so that he wasn't after her with a quirt or tens unit all the time. 

I couldn't ask for a more trusting, creative, intelligent, skilled, funny man to guide me. 

But eventually, I'll want a LTR that's exclusive, or so I now think. 


< Message edited by TwilightShadows -- 9/7/2008 10:44:23 AM >

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Masters with Vanilla Primary Relationships - 9/7/2008 12:38:19 PM   
simpleplan2


Posts: 461
Joined: 7/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SoulPiercer

I don't think submissive women are "expected" to forego a traditional relationship.

The fact is, there are married submissives who look outside their marriages as well.

There are also single submissives who would love to have a married dominant that they can send home as soon as play time is over.




You are so full of...common sense.

(in reply to SoulPiercer)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Masters with Vanilla Primary Relationships - 9/7/2008 4:32:55 PM   
FangsNfeet


Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline 		Sometimes it's tough to have your cake and get to eat it.

Through out the history of sex, men usually like the idea of having little miss innocent at home and someone dirty on the outside. Sometimes this has to do with presentation or family/social acceptance in having little miss innocent as your wife at home.

Lucky for me, I have a bad girl as my wife who looks and acts nice in public.

_____________________________

I'm Godzilla and you're Japan

(in reply to TwilightShadows)
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RE: Masters with Vanilla Primary Relationships - 9/7/2008 8:33:10 PM   
AnnaOfAramis


Posts: 523
Joined: 7/30/2008
Status: offline
quote:

the Master who has been dominating and training me is married in an open relationship. There are no secrets, and I've met his wife on a couple of occassions. She even joked with me one time about having been releived that he had me to toy with, so that he wasn't after her with a quirt or tens unit all the time.

I couldn't ask for a more trusting, creative, intelligent, skilled, funny man to guide me.

But eventually, I'll want a LTR that's exclusive


Greetings,

The relationship you describe here sounds like an honest open relationship and there is nothing wrong with that. Sometimes men have a woman who is not suited to be a slave but meets other needs of theirs, and then they have a slave for their other needs. As long as everyone is in the relationship together, this is fine. Where there is a problem, in this girl's opinion, is when cheating is involved. While many may disagree, and they have a right to their opinion, this girl's opinion is that a Master is above all honorable, truthful, and trustworthy. If he is lying to his spouse, in this girl's book, he is no master.

Regarding your desire for an exclusive LTR, this girl believes that to be truly enslaved requires deep intimate knowledge of a girl that can only be attained in an extremely committed relationship. Slavery creates a need for mastery and the absence of it creates void within her that needs to be filled. In order to feel fulfilled as a slave, it is therefore this girl's opinion that she would certainly need a live-in LTR. It would not have to be exclusive for her. But there was a time when she felt that was what she needed, but she has changed and now exclusivity is no longer an issue.

These are not the only opinions there are, just this girl's opinions. Others may have something different to offer.

Be well,

anna

(in reply to TwilightShadows)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Masters with Vanilla Primary Relationships - 9/7/2008 10:20:40 PM   
daddysliloneds


Posts: 1351
Joined: 6/28/2006
Status: offline 		well, let me give you a taste of my first hand experience belonging to a master married to a vanilla...

he's as honest as the days are long and i've never known of one time, ever, that he broke a promise to anyone.  he married at 15 to the young lady he knocked up.  it was what he felt was the right thing to do.  he took marriage vows, which included the 'till death do us part'.  he plans on keeping to those vows; he gave his word, and he had and raised a beautiful family prior to me and many others becoming a part of his life...

now a whole lot of changes occur in men and women from 15-50; it's a fact of life; thus vanilla prior to marriage and perhaps 20 years or so down the road, things changed to more kink and bdsm related as needs, but the promises were made to the vanilla, and the promises are kept.  plus, i've yet to know one person that doesn't have a good majority of their life being vanilla anyways; unless of course you never leave your house.

i never went without anything while i belonged to this man. i never lacked a traditional relationship with him either. i still spent my holidays such as christmas with him, as did his wife. 

so i guess what i'm trying to say is:  why is it so important for you to own a wedding ring or a have a marriage certificate to feel secure in what you have or to feel that you have it all? 

(in reply to TwilightShadows)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Masters with Vanilla Primary Relationships - 9/8/2008 6:54:01 AM   
HeavansKeeper


Posts: 1254
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		<QR>

Quite simply, any arrangement that is agreed to by all parties is fine. To me, it's no different than a husband who spends a great deal of his time coaching youth sports. He has another part of himself that his wife cannot fulfill.

I tell My Pet, quite often, "You cannot be my everything. I cannot be your everything." To think otherwise is simply a delusion. If those words sound mean, Disney has/had you under their "one true love" spell long enough.

There is, however, a proximity that cannot be ignored. His being married and looking for other women (for any reason, other than employment in a proper company) is considered taboo in some light. Be wary at first, but not closed minded. If you feel you (the general you) are the mistress, communicate about it.

Personally, I would not want to be involved with married people unless I could meet the husband/wife. My level of wariness goes pretty deep.

_____________________________

The Loving Owner of HisHeavan

... You've waited your whole life for this moment...

(in reply to daddysliloneds)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Masters with Vanilla Primary Relationships - 9/8/2008 8:06:54 AM   
Messala


Posts: 11
Joined: 12/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TwilightShadows

I have a question for the Masters here.  I have been inundated as of late with correspondence from men who are Masters living with vanilla women (many married.) 

The story is often very similar....BDSM is a huge part of who they are, they can't imagine not having D/s in their lives, so they look to submissive women to have as, frankly mistresses in the vanilla meaning of the word.

If the need to be a Master or to live one's life that way was so great, how can they abide being in a vanilla relationship, and are they honest men? 

As a submissive woman who wants one man/master, I don't find this arrangement appealing or beneficial or even remotely fulfilling.  Why are submissive women in this scenario expected to forego a traditional relationship - a man in their life day to day - someone at the table next to them on Thanksgiving? 

I just don't get it.  Thank you in advance for your input.



Great question. While I agree that some stay for the children (as someone else pointed out) it may also be because some men (myself included) don't realize their dominant tendencies until later in life. I had a broad variety of sexual experiences before I recognized my dominant side. It just kind "popped out" one day and have been exploring it ever since. I happened to be at a time when I was unencumbered by wife/kids. But if you're a middle-age man with the wife, kids, mini van, house, etc and are only starting to discover the dominant side, then a mistress (as you define it) might be the only option.

I realize that doesn't help your longing for a relationship, but I really think this might be the reasoning why you're having this experience with me.

(in reply to TwilightShadows)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Masters with Vanilla Primary Relationships - 9/8/2008 12:57:41 PM   
TwilightShadows


Posts: 68
Joined: 1/4/2008
From: twilight
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysliloneds


so i guess what i'm trying to say is:  why is it so important for you to own a wedding ring or a have a marriage certificate to feel secure in what you have or to feel that you have it all? 


Thank you, I appreciate you sharing that experience. 

But just to clarify.....I never mentioned a wedding ring or a marriage at all.  That is the very last thing I want.  Although, one of those Cartier's Love Bracelets would be nice :) 

http://search.ebay.com/cartier-love-bracelet

(in reply to daddysliloneds)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Masters with Vanilla Primary Relationships - 9/9/2008 4:10:48 AM   
daddysliloneds


Posts: 1351
Joined: 6/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TwilightShadows

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysliloneds


so i guess what i'm trying to say is:  why is it so important for you to own a wedding ring or a have a marriage certificate to feel secure in what you have or to feel that you have it all? 


Thank you, I appreciate you sharing that experience. 

But just to clarify.....I never mentioned a wedding ring or a marriage at all.  That is the very last thing I want.  Although, one of those Cartier's Love Bracelets would be nice :) 

http://search.ebay.com/cartier-love-bracelet


then you have me confused.  you start your thread stating that you want one man and a traditional relationship.  if you could have both of those things with a married man, such as myself and others had, would you be happy?  or, what do you consider to be a 'traditional' relationship?

(in reply to TwilightShadows)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Masters with Vanilla Primary Relationships - 9/10/2008 7:10:33 AM   
TwilightShadows


Posts: 68
Joined: 1/4/2008
From: twilight
Status: offline 		Messala,

By traditional I mean monogomous, exclusive, one man, one woman, shared lives - not just play time. 

(in reply to TwilightShadows)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Masters with Vanilla Primary Relationships - 9/11/2008 11:18:56 AM   
SirDominic


Posts: 711
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TwilightShadows

As a submissive woman who wants one man/master, I don't find this arrangement appealing or beneficial or even remotely fulfilling.


You make the statement above, then go on to say that you are in a very satisfying relationship with a married man now. How can you find your current arrangement so satisfying if you don't find this sort of thing "even remotely fulfilling".

It sounds to me that you are not really sure what it is you want. Unfortunately you won't find that answer here. It will take a lot of introspection on your part; a lot of honesty with yourself about who you really are and what you really want. Hard work, and worth it.


_____________________________

You teach best what you have lived.

(in reply to TwilightShadows)
Profile   Post #: 20
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