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RE: Obama: Recession could delay rescinding of tax cuts - 9/7/2008 7:37:05 PM   
Thadius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

Damnit Thadius....give a guy a little credit!....lol


LOL.  I did give you a little credit.  I should warn folks that I am warning the Bears game, therefore some of my remarks may be colored by what is going on at that current time.

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RE: Obama: Recession could delay rescinding of tax cuts - 9/7/2008 7:37:14 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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quote:

slaveboyforyou, i think you have hit the nail on the head!!!  why else would he change this late in the game?  could he be responding to the polls?


I don't think it's the polls, bestbaby.  If he does manage to get elected, he still has to worry about getting elected to a 2nd term.  I think he's starting to realize that he can't keep a lot of the promises he's made.  If he doesn't start doing some damage control now, he's going to have a lot to answer for in the 2nd election. 

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RE: Obama: Recession could delay rescinding of tax cuts - 9/7/2008 7:42:41 PM   
bestbabync


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Status: offline 		seems to me that damage control is for sure the reason for his change!  i am amazed because he is promising everything to everyone now!

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RE: Obama: Recession could delay rescinding of tax cuts - 9/7/2008 7:46:02 PM   
SilverMark


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Status: offline 		I am as well..........but once again I am on the other side....If the Colts would stop screwing up I could go to bed...

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RE: Obama: Recession could delay rescinding of tax cuts - 9/8/2008 12:20:54 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

Don't get me wrong--I think it's great that Obama is starting to learn that raising taxes is a bad thing.  I just wonder how deep the lesson goes, and will he shift gears again closer to November.



There are both valid reasons to raise and lower tax cuts at various times, this is not a one way street. America for these last years has been living off vasts amounts of borrowed money, that is a bad thing. As Steiglitz pointed out, if Bush wanted to fight a war, he should have raised taxes to pay for it and not given tax cuts and then borrowed to pay for the war. The American economy is now in a bad position where it can't raise taxes to pay for its adventures but nor is it in a good position to cut them.

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RE: Obama: Recession could delay rescinding of tax cuts - 9/8/2008 5:37:19 AM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

Don't get me wrong--I think it's great that Obama is starting to learn that raising taxes is a bad thing.  I just wonder how deep the lesson goes, and will he shift gears again closer to November.



There are both valid reasons to raise and lower tax cuts at various times, this is not a one way street. America for these last years has been living off vasts amounts of borrowed money, that is a bad thing. As Steiglitz pointed out, if Bush wanted to fight a war, he should have raised taxes to pay for it and not given tax cuts and then borrowed to pay for the war. The American economy is now in a bad position where it can't raise taxes to pay for its adventures but nor is it in a good position to cut them.

Even accepting that sometimes tax increases are good (keep in mind my ideal size of government hovers close to or at the zero level), the U.S. economy has not magically transformed from glowing success to abysmal failure in the past few days.  The problems and weaknesses in the economy have been front page news since early spring.

If it is a bad idea to raise taxes now because of the economic conditions, it was a bad idea then. 

Obama is not saying he was wrong before and has changed his mind, nor do I even see him making the argument that conditions have deteriorated sufficiently to warrant a shift in posture.  He just switched from "raise taxes on the wealthy, cut taxes on the poor, and the economy will heal" to "don't raise taxes until the economy heals."

I know some think all the hand-wringing and looking in the rearview mirror is cute and cuddly and warm and fuzzy, but I want someone in the Oval Office who has his eye on the road.  Obama and his "this is my stance today, not yesterday, and likely not tomorrow" just ain't measuring up.


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RE: Obama: Recession could delay rescinding of tax cuts - 9/8/2008 5:40:20 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

I know some think all the hand-wringing and looking in the rearview mirror is cute and cuddly and warm and fuzzy, but I want someone in the Oval Office who has his eye on the road.  Obama and his "this is my stance today, not yesterday, and likely not tomorrow" just ain't measuring up.



You mean like Bush has his eye on the road from his car wreck?

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RE: Obama: Recession could delay rescinding of tax cuts - 9/8/2008 6:05:33 AM   
Sanity


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Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		You're losing the debate, so you fall back on that? LOL!!!

"Bush!"???

1. Bush isn't running.

2. He's likely doing better than Kerry would have done, who incidentally President Bush beat in the debates and at the polls.

3. Bush isn't running.

And did I mention that Bush isn't running?


quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
You mean like Bush has his eye on the road from his car wreck?


< Message edited by Sanity -- 9/8/2008 6:12:48 AM >

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RE: Obama: Recession could delay rescinding of tax cuts - 9/8/2008 6:20:16 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

You're losing the debate, so you fall back on that? LOL!!!

"Bush!"???

1. Bush isn't running.

2. He's likely doing better than Kerry would have done, who incidentally President Bush beat in the debates and at the polls.

3. Bush isn't running.

And did I mention that Bush isn't running?


quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
You mean like Bush has his eye on the road from his car wreck?



Well, not that McCain and Palin ahve said much about what they would do if they gained power but from the snatches of rhetoric that seem to indicate what they would do, they will probably end in the ditch the same as Bush. 

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RE: Obama: Recession could delay rescinding of tax cuts - 9/8/2008 6:27:24 AM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

You mean like Bush has his eye on the road from his car wreck?

As has already been pointed out:

George W. Bush is not running for President


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RE: Obama: Recession could delay rescinding of tax cuts - 9/8/2008 6:47:18 AM   
meatcleaver


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Status: offline 		Aren't you a little late with this post?

As I pointed out, the chances are McCain and Palin will probably join him if they get power for the same reasons he ended up where he is. Like Bush, they appear to know they are right and the world has to fit their policies rather they model their policies on what is achichievable in the world they exist in.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 9/8/2008 6:48:31 AM >

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RE: Obama: Recession could delay rescinding of tax cuts - 9/8/2008 6:57:47 AM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

As I pointed out, the chances are McCain and Palin will probably join him if they get power for the same reasons he ended up where he is. Like Bush, they appear to know they are right and the world has to fit their policies rather they model their policies on what is achichievable in the world they exist in.

The same argument can be made far more convincingly about Obama.

This same argument has been made far more convincingly about Obama.

Tax-and-spend is a fool's game regardless of how the economy is performing, and doubly so when the economy is underperforming.  History shows that.  Economics 101 shows that.  Jimmy Carter showed that. 

Obama's denial of history is a fatuous, facetious, foolish platform for a Presidential campaign.

< Message edited by celticlord2112 -- 9/8/2008 6:58:17 AM >

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RE: Obama: Recession could delay rescinding of tax cuts - 9/8/2008 7:23:31 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

As I pointed out, the chances are McCain and Palin will probably join him if they get power for the same reasons he ended up where he is. Like Bush, they appear to know they are right and the world has to fit their policies rather they model their policies on what is achichievable in the world they exist in.

The same argument can be made far more convincingly about Obama.

This same argument has been made far more convincingly about Obama.

Tax-and-spend is a fool's game regardless of how the economy is performing, and doubly so when the economy is underperforming.  History shows that.  Economics 101 shows that.  Jimmy Carter showed that. 

Obama's denial of history is a fatuous, facetious, foolish platform for a Presidential campaign.


Tax cuts and spend is also a fools game because you are putting the country in hock and is the politics of jam today and jam tomorrow too, it doesn't add up so when taxes have to be raised, everyone is pissed off because they are used to having jam without having earned it which appears to be the US's situation now. Except that Bush has got the economy in so much deficit cuts should be made but while the military adventure bleeds cash, any cuts are going to go straight to Iraq and Afghanistan and not really help the economy that much. Lucky for the US, China is on the rise.

And if it is relevant for you to mention Carter, it is relevant to mention Bush, after all, Bush has more in common with McCain than Carter has with Obama. McCain believing in expensive military adventures and all.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 9/8/2008 7:26:49 AM >

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RE: Obama: Recession could delay rescinding of tax cuts - 9/8/2008 11:02:34 AM   
Archer


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Status: offline 		And it is precisely the SPEND part of the equation that McCain is known for watching and speaking out against and what his rheoric has specificly said would be a large part of the "change" he offers.

Now choose to believe he will follow through or not, but to deny that he has an extenssive record of being a spending hawk, and of being against earmarks When was the last earmark he took home? Oh wait it hasn't happened yet.

McCain has specificly said he would wield the Veto as a budget balancing weapon. Again believe or don't but don't ignore the specific statement.





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RE: Obama: Recession could delay rescinding of tax cuts - 9/8/2008 11:02:58 AM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
And if it is relevant for you to mention Carter, it is relevant to mention Bush, after all, Bush has more in common with McCain than Carter has with Obama. McCain believing in expensive military adventures and all.

What a pity you are completely wrong about this.

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