My advice for the VP debators

My advice for the VP debators (Full Version)

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BitaTruble -> My advice for the VP debators (9/8/2008 4:04:09 PM)
Okay.. this is probably going to be my last OP for a while since I'll be in CA for the next 3 weeks. (Hey, quit the cheering!) Ladies first: Gov Palin - You're going up against a smart, educated man who has the same sort of mostly middle class values that you do. Stay off religion.. he's a staunch Roman Catholic and you won't be able to get him in that area. You need to attack him on congressional spending, flipping on the Surge and his several failed bids for Prez as well as the poor approval rating of Congress. As often as possible go back to the fact that if the people had wanted him in a higher office, they've had plenty of chances to vote for him already .. and didn't. It's going to be hard for you to attack Biden too much because except for that whole plagarism thing, which was decades ago, he's pretty clean in most other areas and has proven his mettle as a Senator. He's good at what he does. Acknowledge that .. then suggest he keep doing it. Do not attack his son working for the bank. Biden's family is too clean and the fact that your own husband wasn't that keen on you being mayor is not going to serve you well. Biden has the loving and whole-hearted support of his whole family so don't even go there. You're going to need to come up with something regarding your serious lack of formal education, the number of schools you went to, the fact that your degree is in such a soft area and that the ticket you represent really doesn't pass muster in that regard. Folks are going to be hard-pressed to believe that education is all that important to you given that you didn't spend too much time on your own and educational issues are virtually non-existant in your runs for mayor and gov. You can bet that Biden is going to go on the attack on the brains issue. You have good instincts, but, even if you never did homework in the past, you'll need to do it now. Use the 'bridge to nowhere' to your advantage. Okay, you flipped on that one a bit, but make it clear that you have no problem readdressing issues when they aren't feasible or don't tow the line with voters. Be strong without being whiney, direct without being combative and show the voters (NOT Biden) that you've got your shit together. You won't win the debate, but you don't have to .. you only have to make a good enough showing so that you don't turn people off, especially, your base. Your base is on your side, but you need to sway the indies and you're not going to do that if you take too hard a line. People looking for change don't want the same old song and dance and let's face it, you're really not a maverick here and you're not going to fool anyone into thinking you are so do what you do best and let the other guy stick his foot in his mouth. He's good at that. I'd avoid too much talk of ethics given the investigation into your own activities and for crying out loud, if you bring up Clinton, it's going to come back and bite you in the ass. The man hasn't held elected office in 8 years so let it go. Sen Biden - use your smarts to your advantage. You're miles above Palin in the education department and on women's issues and anyone who's done a scrap of investigating into your background is going to know that so bring those up as often as you can. She's savvy on energy, but so are you so that's going to come out as a wash. Talk up your own expertise in that area and don't sweat it too much. She's good, but you'll more than hold your own here. Don't let the fact that she wears panties instead of boxers stop you from doing what you do best, which is attack, just be careful of which subjects you choose to use against her. You've got quite a lot to choose from so make your points count without looking like some misogynist ass. Attack her on taxing employer paid health insurance benefits and point out her stance on embryonic cell research. Most voters are 'for' rather than against that issue including her own running mate. Call her on her isolationist stance and her remarks about only taking on the VP job if it's doing what's best for Alaska. Call into question whether or not she's capable of setting aside her home state for the good of the Nation. We have 50 states here, not just one and she'll be VP of all of them. You can throw in a remark or two about CIC of the National Guard if she uses that to as proof of military or command experience. Point out that the National Guard is not under command of the Gov when called to national duty but that authority transfers to the federal level. Point out that, as Gov, she's never had to call out the National Guard so really doesn't have any sort of military command experience to draw on. Don't push it too much because you're sorely lacking in that area. This is a case of the best defense is probably just to keep your big trap shut unless she brings it up first. You can certainly bet on foreign policy and national security coming up several times over the course of your debates so do your own homework and don't take credit for things you didn't do! That's a big problem with you and, like Palin, you're not going to fool the savvy voter. If you must, acknowledge her assets as a small town mayor and the progressive rigor with which she held office, but certainly imply that it was done at the expense of a lot of people. Question her loyalty. She'll be hard pressed to defend it given her track record. You should feel free to bring up Clinton .. Hillary that is .. and if you throw out a line or two about the fact that she's no Hillary Clinton, the Hillary supporters will be happy and anyone who was already swinging over to the McCain ticket might take a second look at it. Probably not, but it's worth a shot. You're really in sort of a no-win situation here. Everyone expects you to win this debate so if you do, the most it will garner is a yawn .. so the main thing here is don't fuck it up. If you lose, it's on you. Good luck to you both! I can't wait to see ya'll in action. [:D]

pahunkboy -> RE: My advice for the VP debators (9/8/2008 5:58:32 PM)
Bita, If I ever run for local office, ild benefit from your campaign advice. You are sharp. :-)

GreedyTop -> RE: My advice for the VP debators (9/8/2008 6:10:15 PM)
yeah! what Hunky said! (Have fun in CA!!)

TheHeretic -> RE: My advice for the VP debators (9/8/2008 9:30:04 PM)
Nice, Bita. (I hope you're heading for one of the prettier parts of CA. Mine is brown, ugly, and the temperatures have been hitting a hundred and fuck every day lately.) Mind if I throw in another perspective for the opponents? We'll go age before beauty... Joe: It's a trap! You are walking into a minefield, and this woman is going to be pushing you towards as many as she can, and trying to sucker you onto the rest. Do not engage. Be dry, boring, and spend too much time talking about statistics. If you can draw her into saying something stupid, go for it, but don't get drawn in yourself. There is a path to victory, but it goes against your instincts. You must lose, in order to win. The first mine I'll mention is foreign policy, and you have that debating anybody from your position. The top of your ticket was spouting idealism long before he started understanding the facts. You know that shit. You need to spend some heavy prep time on what Barry has said, and avoid cutting loose with some realpolitik that makes him look like an idiot. (Since the Presidential debate on foreign policy and national security is the Friday before (9/26) your Thursday (10/2) night debate, you'll also have to hope you don't need to wade in and fix his fuck-ups.) With respect to Bita, don't stress the educational differences. Your ticket already has problems with perceived elitism. This woman reads, and is just waiting for you to get pompous, so she can lance your ass. If that happens, take it with grace and let it go. That leads to the horrible part for you. It isn't fair. It isn't right. If we actually had anything like gender equality, it wouldn't matter. You can't be seen as beating up a girl. She may bring a dozen good retorts to the tip of your tongue, but you must use them sparingly. Sucks, doesn't it? Your best target, her experience, is pretty much off-limits. Not much sympathy from me here. You knew what you were signing on to. She's better than the top of your ticket. I could list a few more, but I just don't think he's the right choice, and wouldn't want to help too much. Sarah: Get out there and have fun. Poke at him. Get that famous mouth of his rolling. We saw little flashes of a Sarah Snarl at the convention. Keep doing that. It's good. He has everything to lose, you have everything to win. I don't need to tell you not to be afraid, do I? You have the base. Work the middle. You are stuck on abortion though. Your position is not the one of the majority of the country. Talk about the sanctity of life, and move on. That will be a rough couple of minutes. There is no need for a lot of flag-waving. Victory in Iraq means Al-qaeda doesn't get a parade under those crossed sabers. We need to stabilize Iraq, and move into the next phase. Don't say Iraqization. Here is your biggest landmine, and it is instant death. I'd say refuse to discuss it all, but it might come in a direct question you need to be extremely ready for. Race. If one remark that comes out of your mouth sounds rascist to the majority, just go straight back to frozenmoosedick. A small town background, and college in Idaho have probably left you very out of touch on race relations. If you venture into the subject, the slightest wrong phrase, no matter how innocently made, even something commonly accepted as totally non-offensive in the circles of your life, could send Barack Obama to the White House. Don't go near it.

celticlord2112 -> RE: My advice for the VP debators (9/8/2008 9:47:24 PM)
One more tidbit on the topic of "race"--I would not be surprised if Biden laid a trap by raising the issue himself, implying Palin is racist for whatever reason. The trap is getting her to use hubby as proof she's not racist ("see, I married a minority"....an obvious rebuttal but also an overly cynical and cliched one). Sarah, if Biden does throw that out there, just keep repeating the "all men are created equal" passage in the Declaration of Independence--or some similar homily--until Biden is forced to move on. Race is not an issue in this campaign, and should not be an issue. Don't let Biden trip you up on it.

DomKen -> RE: My advice for the VP debators (9/9/2008 12:07:00 AM)
This is Joe's easiest debate ever. A quick jab and it'll be all over except for replaying Palin upset face while Joe's says "I know Hilary Clinton, I'm proud to serve in the Senate with Hilary Clinton and you are no Hilary Clinton." on the evening news for the next couple of months. Because you just know the GOP is going to try and weasel the claim in during the debate. It might be funny to see how far Joe can get her out on the limb before dropping the line but it is essentially the whole reason she's on the ticket so he has to plant the jab at the precise right moment. Palin's best bet for the debate is to come down with teh plague and be unable to attend. Accuse someone in the "liberal" media of having infected her intentionally for maximum sympathy factor. Or if she's decided McCain isn't her cup of tea she could come out and tell the truth, start with the whole god told her to build the NG pipeline. Go on to explain that earmarks are bad for everyone but small towns in Alaska. Then discuss book banning and librarian firing and reinstating. Then explain how city council of the small town she was mayor of forced her to hire a city manager because her management style was unacceptable to the board and the city employees. Then discuss the whole firing teh chief of Alasha's state troopers because he wouldn't fire her former brother in law. Either way it will be a fun debate, for Obama supporters at least.

BitaTruble -> RE: My advice for the VP debators (9/9/2008 1:32:50 AM)
~FR~ Thanks, hunk and GT. [;)] Okay, I disagree on the education thing. Here's why. First, I don't think they're going to run with the 'elite' thing. Voters just aren't going to buy it especially when it comes to Biden and after the RNC and the obvious money dripping, they'd be hard pressed to sell that package. One comment about Palin's seaplane and poof, done. Second, Palin's parents were educators so it would be natural to assume that education would be very important to her and yet, in both her terms as mayor and in her stint as Gov, education has taken a back seat. Add in, five schools in six years to obtain a BS in journalism? That's either one slow learner or .. someone who just doesn't think that education is all that important. I don't think she's slow .. I just don't get a vibe from her that it's important. Biden's got a solid background on supporting education .. so, a strength for him and a weakness for her. I would go there in a hot minute. As far as Palin reading, it's not going to compare with how much reading Biden does. I think this is a solid area of attack for him on just about every front. Her focus during her stint as gov has been on ethics and oil. Pretty much everything else has taken a backseat to those two issues. Biden will do well to call her on anything and everything other than those two issues and education is certainly one of them. He's got a 91% rating from the NEA. That's big, that's solid and that's a long term committment to education. Palin wouldn't even make the team and Biden can hit one out of the park on it. Of course, MMV. Education is very important to me, so I admit to being biased on the subject. One quickie on the race issue .. that's a don't ... just don't for both candidates. It's divisive, unproductive and irrelvant as is gender. I wouldn't touch it with a 10' pole and neither should the candidates. That said, if race isn't brought up by the mediator at some point, I'll be shocked .. so, they're going to have to go there, but .. it should be a stone skipper, not a deep sea dive.

Thadius -> RE: My advice for the VP debators (9/9/2008 4:21:48 AM)
Celeste, This is the only area I am going to disagree with you on, her education. The best I can figure it, there were 4 schools, with only one of them being a sort of anomaly, that being the Hawaii Pacific College. From there she transferred to a community college in Idaho, then to the University of Idaho, then to a community college back in Alaska for a term, and then finished out the BS back at the University of Idaho. The reason I say not to emphasize this is that it is pretty close to how many Americans go about getting their degrees. Paying for schooling at a University is much more expensive than community college, and something many of us can relate to. Also one could argue that the reason she transfered back to an Alaskan school for a term was to compete in the local pageants and the state title, trying to earn money to continue her education. Trying to point this out, will do one of 2 things, it will point out how hard she had to work to pay her way through school, and/or show that Joe had it a bit easier (whether true or not). No sense in putting a highlight on that sort of thing, at least not as a negative. Trying to go after her on earmarks and the economy would be a couple of more to stay away from. She has sought $129 Million in earmarks from the feds for infrastructure (roads and the like), his running mate has sought $850 million. The sunshine act she put in place for the state budget, makes a pretty compelling case for reform, not to mention the rebates she got sent to the folks of the state. When was the last time your state sent out $1200 checks to every tax payer, because they took in too much money? Also, her positions on education are available... http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2008/09/07/gov-sarah-palin-of-alaska-on-education/ That link provides parts of the 2 state of the state addresses. Joe, needs to take some lessons of what not to do from Rick Lazio. Joe also needs to avoid his free wheeling foot in mouth syndrome that pops up regularly, this is not to say that he shouldn't be himself, just that he needs to stick to the facts or as close to them as possible. He needs to remember not to use any attacks that can boomerang back on to the top of his ticket, things like experience and resumes. Joe needs to watch out for the positions he has taken on the wars (the current and Desert Storm), and the surge. Also, his positions on the tops of both tickets. This is going to be a great debate to watch, there are 2 fighters entering the ring, the old champion and the new contender. It is a classic matchup, and is only made better because of the stark differences in positions. Just my opinions, Thadius

BitaTruble -> RE: My advice for the VP debators (9/9/2008 12:18:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Thadius Celeste, This is the only area I am going to disagree with you on, her education. The best I can figure it, there were 4 schools, with only one of them being a sort of anomaly, that being the Hawaii Pacific College. From there she transferred to a community college in Idaho, then to the University of Idaho, then to a community college back in Alaska for a term, and then finished out the BS back at the University of Idaho. Yup, you're right. It was 4 schools. I had counted leaving U of I, then going to a JC then back to U of I and counted U of I twice. I should only have counted it once. My bad. Four different schools, but five separate attendences at those four schools over a six year period. I'll further note that it probably took six years because she attended an odd semester here and there so that would have elongated the time frame it took to secure the BS. I don't think that distracts from my point, however. One other thing .. there are some claims that Palin cut special needs funding by 62% during her stint as Gov. That's just not true. Palin moved a program into it's own line which made it appear as though funding was cut, but the $5m was simply moved, not cut. On the record as well is the fact that Palin signed legislation in March '08 further funding special needs. Diagnostic testing for down syndrome is done between 15 & 20 weeks of gestation so that bill was signed well after she obtained knowledge of her own situation. It could be coincidence, but given she had virtually no track record prior to such diagnostic testing, I probably would be more inclined to buy into the bridge that never was than believe it was anything but personal interest. Generally, I'm inclined to give the benefit of the doubt, however (it sorta ties into that whole innocent until proven guilty thing), so I must stipulate that the Alaska legislature only works 90 days a year and it's possible that March was Palin's first opportunity to sign such a bill and she may very well have been on board prior to obtaining knowledge of her own situation. My gut says no, but my head has to look at facts. Since there is no way to determine one way or the other, this is shelved for me with a little posty note in my brain that I did look at it.

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