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Obama's "Community Organization" ACORN - 9/9/2008 12:51:12 PM   
corysub


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Sen. Obama keeps bringing up his "community activist" work as a young man as a qualification to be president.
Obviously, being a State Senator is more important in that regard, even if he voted "present" 130 times, or as
the Junior Senator from Illinois, although after a year and a half he began his run to take out Hillary and run for President on the democrat ticket. 
I thought it might be of interest to read one view on the organization that Obama worked for as an "activist".
By the way, they are involved in numerous voter fraud cases, but still receive federal funding, at least for the moment.

                    http://tncwatch.com/2008/09/obamas-community-organizer-outfit.html
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RE: Obama's "Community Organization" ACORN - 9/9/2008 1:17:05 PM   
DomKen


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Yes, ACORN has been accused of some bad stuff. However Senator Obama never worked for ACORN. From June 1985 til May 1988 he worked for the Developing Communites Project. 1988 through 1991 he was in law school. He then joined the U of C law school faculty and in 92 ran the Illinois Project Vote! chapter. He also helped found Public Allies in 1992. In 1993 he started working for Davis, Miner, Barnhill and Galland. In 1995 he ran for the state senate.

A tiny bit of cursoryfact checking would have revealed this before you posted this.

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RE: Obama's "Community Organization" ACORN - 9/9/2008 1:22:22 PM   
housesub4you


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 it appears facts have very little to do with this election. 

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RE: Obama's "Community Organization" ACORN - 9/9/2008 1:28:42 PM   
Thadius


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A bit of further fact checking would have revealed that Obama has represented ACORN legally, and thus did work for them at least one time as a lawyer (Illinois motor voter case).  He also worked as an activist for them....

quote:


http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/opinion/columnists/datelinedc/s_488184.html
But back in Chicago, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) is more important than Iraq or Washington. ACORN and its associated Midwest Academy, both founded in the 1970s, continue to train and mobilize activists throughout the country, often using them to manipulate public opinion through "direct action." It's sometimes a code for illegal activities.
Prior to law school, Barack Obama worked as an organizer for their affiliates in New York and Chicago. He always has been an ACORN person -- meeting and working with them to advance their causes. Through his membership on the board of the Woods Fund for Chicago and his friendship with Teresa Heinz Kerry, Obama has helped ensure that they remain funded well.
Since he graduated from law school, Obama's work with ACORN and the Midwest Academy has ranged from training and fundraising, to legal representation and promoting their work.


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RE: Obama's "Community Organization" ACORN - 9/9/2008 1:30:08 PM   
corysub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Yes, ACORN has been accused of some bad stuff. However Senator Obama never worked for ACORN. From June 1985 til May 1988 he worked for the Developing Communites Project. 1988 through 1991 he was in law school. He then joined the U of C law school faculty and in 92 ran the Illinois Project Vote! chapter. He also helped found Public Allies in 1992. In 1993 he started working for Davis, Miner, Barnhill and Galland. In 1995 he ran for the state senate.

A tiny bit of cursoryfact checking would have revealed this before you posted this.


Well..the link was a source that says Obama worked for Acorn. I have not found any rebuttal by the Obama campaign. Do you have any comment from his campaign that he never did work for acorn?..would be interesting to see.  The quote from the link is shown below....

"Don't bother asking Barack Obama. He cut his ideological teeth working with ACORN as a "community organizer" and legal representative. Naturally, ACORN's political action committee has warmly endorsed his presidential candidacy. ACORN head Maude Hurd gushes that Obama is the candidate who "best understands and can affect change on the issues ACORN cares about" -- like ensuring their massive pipeline to your hard-earned money. Let's take a closer look at the ACORN Obama knows."

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RE: Obama's "Community Organization" ACORN - 9/9/2008 1:34:13 PM   
DomKen


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His CV is public. ACORN appears no where on it. Neither do any of the member organizations. I'm looking into whether he represented them but that is a very different matter than what the article claims.

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RE: Obama's "Community Organization" ACORN - 9/9/2008 1:35:22 PM   
pahunkboy


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that is a supposed affordable houses organization.  they actually do- nothing that i know of.

i look around quite abit-  many of these types of organizations are there solely to suck up grant money and not actually do anything.-

[nothing against Obama... but that is not a big achievement...]

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RE: Obama's "Community Organization" ACORN - 9/9/2008 1:37:34 PM   
Thadius


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For whether he represented them... here ya go, at least one article.  Scroll down to the Motor Voter thing for specifics.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/700499,CST-NWS-Obama-law17.article

quote:

Obama sued on behalf of ACORN, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now. The League of Women Voters and other public-interest groups joined in.
"He and his client were the ones who filed the original case -- they blazed the trail," said Paul Mollica, who represented the League.


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RE: Obama's "Community Organization" ACORN - 9/9/2008 1:43:32 PM   
DomKen


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So the law firm he was an associate at took a case and he was lead counsel. What a terribly close relationship with ACORN that demonstrates.

So like I said up thread he was never a community organizer for ACORN or otherwise directly employed by them which the blog linked in the OP claims.

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RE: Obama's "Community Organization" ACORN - 9/9/2008 1:46:46 PM   
Thadius


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I posted a source other than a blog... and one from before the current scandal phase,  it was from Jan 2007.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/opinion/columnists/datelinedc/s_488184.html  Just in case you missed it.


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When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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RE: Obama's "Community Organization" ACORN - 9/9/2008 1:50:54 PM   
DomKen


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No, you posted a column by a columnist. An anonymous columnist at that. With no sources and Obama's CV right in front of me showing differently I'll err on the side of believing the evidence and not the unsupported assertions by an unnamed columnist.

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RE: Obama's "Community Organization" ACORN - 9/9/2008 1:55:41 PM   
Thadius


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http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NDZiMjkwMDczZWI5ODdjOWYxZTIzZGIyNzEyMjE0ODI=&w=MQ==

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RE: Obama's "Community Organization" ACORN - 9/9/2008 2:08:49 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NDZiMjkwMDczZWI5ODdjOWYxZTIzZGIyNzEyMjE0ODI=&w=MQ==

Did you read this? Did youfind any statement that Obama was ever in the employ of ACORN or any of its member groups? I certainly didn't.

Once more the blog post originally linked to claimed Obama was a community organizer for ACORN.
quote:

He cut his ideological teeth working with ACORN as a "community organizer"

Which is simply not true.

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RE: Obama's "Community Organization" ACORN - 9/9/2008 2:22:31 PM   
Thadius


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quote:


The extent of Obama’s ties to Acorn has not been recognized. We find some important details in an article in the journal Social Policy entitled, “Case Study: Chicago — The Barack Obama Campaign,” by Toni Foulkes, a Chicago Acorn leader and a member of Acorn’s National Association Board. The odd thing about this article is that Foulkes is forced to protect the technically “non-partisan” status of Acorn’s get-out-the-vote campaigns, even as he does everything in his power to give Acorn credit for helping its favorite son win the critical 2004 primary that secured Obama the Democratic nomination to the U.S. Senate.

Before giving us a tour of Acorn’s pro-Obama but somehow “non-partisan” election activities, Foulks treats us to a brief history of Obama’s ties to Acorn. While most press accounts imply that Obama just happened to be at the sort of public-interest law firm that would take Acorn’s “motor voter” case, Foulkes claims that Acorn specifically sought out Obama’s representation in the motor voter case, remembering Obama from the days when he worked with Talbot. And while many reports speak of Obama’s post-law school role organizing “Project VOTE” in 1992, Foulkes makes it clear that this project was undertaken in direct partnership with Acorn. Foulkes then stresses Obama’s yearly service as a key figure in Acorn’s leadership-training seminars.

At least a few news reports have briefly mentioned Obama’s role in training Acorn’s leaders, but none that I know of have said what Foulkes reports next: that Obama’s long service with Acorn led many members to serve as the volunteer shock troops of Obama’s early political campaigns — his initial 1996 State Senate campaign, and his failed bid for Congress in 2000 (Foulkes confuses the dates of these two campaigns.) With Obama having personally helped train a new cadre of Chicago Acorn leaders, by the time of Obama’s 2004 U.S. Senate campaign, Obama and Acorn were “old friends,” says Foulkes.


Or even from the Obama website?

quote:

When Obama met with ACORN leaders in November, he reminded them of his history with ACORN and his beginnings in Illinois as a Project Vote organizer, a nonprofit focused on voter rights and education.  Senator Obama said, "I come out of a grassroots organizing background. That's what I did for three and half years before I went to law school.   That's the reason I moved to Chicago was to organize. I've been fighting alongside ACORN on issues you care about my entire career.  Even before I was an elected official, when I ran Project Vote voter registration drive in Illinois, ACORN was smack dab in the middle of it, and we appreciate your work.”



I know Foulkes must be lying... Why would Obama have ever worked with this group or train any of it's people, because their political and activist organizing don't mesh at all.   There goes another one... under the bus.

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RE: Obama's "Community Organization" ACORN - 9/9/2008 2:33:27 PM   
celticlord2112


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Now, Thadius, DK is technically correct when he said Obama's CV does not show him employed by ACORN. Even Obama's website indicates an affiliation defined more by alliance than by employment.

Of course, that distinction leaves unanswered the question of why the clarification matters, unless to distance Obama from ACORN (and why the distancing is necessary), but the distinction is technically valid.

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RE: Obama's "Community Organization" ACORN - 9/9/2008 2:42:11 PM   
Thadius


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I am used to the technicalities and nuances, it seems to be a pattern with Sen. Obama.  To claim that he never worked for them is false though, as he was lead council for them when they sued the state of Illinois. The other nuanced ways of getting around an "official" working relationship, seems odd at best.  As ACORN themselves have admitted that he has trained their folks on an annual basis.

That's about the same as saying a Chicago politician doesn't take bribes and kickbacks because he doesn't file taxes on the money he collects.

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When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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RE: Obama's "Community Organization" ACORN - 9/9/2008 3:23:48 PM   
BitaTruble


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quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub

Obviously, being a State Senator is more important in that regard, even if he voted "present" 130 times,


I've seen this thrown around several times as if a vote of 'present' was something unusual or inherently 'bad'. Surely, I can't be the only one who has done research on the congressional voting process!

Seriously, I think some folks here need to do some homework and find out what it means to vote 'present', why it's done and what purpose it serves and .. um, why it's required by the Constitution. There's this little thing called a 'quorum' which means 1/2 + 1 must be seated for a vote to take place. Voting 'present' is usually done to fill the quorum requirement of the Constitution.  There are usually several procedural votes which take place prior to an actual vote on a given issue which would/should also garner a vote of 'present'.

So, that said, Obama voted present 130 times. What does that mean in the grand scheme of things? If you really want to know, it means you need to go actually read all those votes to determine what was going on at the time the 'present' vote was cast. How many of those were votes for cloture? For bills? For quorums? Committees? How many of those followed House Rules as opposed to Constitutional rules? How many were for Committee of the Whole? Unanimous Consent?

So, here's an example of a bill that passed that is close to my heart. (red highlights are mine and I kept actual text in red bold from the procedure)

H.R.2520
Title: To provide for the collection and maintenance of human cord blood stem cells for the treatment of patients and research, and to amend the Public Health Service Act to authorize the C.W. Bill Young Cell Transplantation Program.


ALL ACTIONS:

5/23/2005:
Referred to the House Committee on Energy and Commerce.

5/24/2005:
Referred to the Subcommittee on Health.
5/24/2005 12:19pm:
Mr. Barton (TX) moved to suspend the rules and pass the bill. (my note: can't be done without determining a quorum - so, a 'present' vote would have taken place here.)
5/24/2005 12:19pm:
Considered under suspension of the rules. (consideration: CR H3795-3809)
5/24/2005 12:19pm:
DEBATE - The House proceeded with forty minutes of debate on H.R. 2520.
5/24/2005 1:36pm:
At the conclusion of debate, the Yeas and Nays were demanded and ordered. Pursuant to the provisions of clause 8, rule XX, the Chair announced that further proceedings on the motion would be postponed.
5/24/2005 6:06pm:
Considered as unfinished business. (consideration: CR H3852)
5/24/2005 6:15pm:
On motion to suspend the rules and pass the bill Agreed to by the Yeas and Nays: (2/3 required): 431 - 1 (Roll no. 205). (text: CR H3795-3797) (cloture)
5/24/2005 6:15pm:
Motion to reconsider laid on the table Agreed to without objection.
5/26/2005:
Received in the Senate.
10/24/2005:
Read twice. Placed on Senate Legislative Calendar under General Orders. Calendar No. 256.
12/16/2005:
Measure laid before Senate by unanimous consent. (consideration: CR S13930-13931)
12/16/2005:
S.AMDT.2688 Amendment SA 2688 proposed by Senator Frist for Senator Hatch. (consideration: CR S13930)
In the nature of a substitute.
12/16/2005:
S.AMDT.2688 Amendment SA 2688 agreed to in Senate by Unanimous Consent.
12/16/2005:
Passed Senate with an amendment by Unanimous Consent. (this would require a quorum so a 'present' vote would have taken place)
12/16/2005:
Message on Senate action sent to the House.
12/17/2005 3:50pm:
Mr. Deal (GA) moved that the House suspend the rules and agree to the Senate amendment. (consideration: CR H12063-12072, H12142-12143)
12/17/2005 3:50pm:
DEBATE - The House proceeded with forty minutes of debate on the motion to suspend the rules and agree to the Senate amendment to H.R. 2520.
12/17/2005 4:34pm:
At the conclusion of debate, the Yeas and Nays were demanded and ordered. Pursuant to the provisions of clause 5, rule I, the chair announced that further proceedings on the motion would be postponed.
12/17/2005 7:34pm:
On motion that the House suspend the rules and agree to the Senate amendment Agreed to by the Yeas and Nays: (2/3 required): 413 - 0 (Roll no. 664). (text as House agree to Senate amendment: CR H12063-12066) (another example of cloture)
12/17/2005 7:34pm:
Motion to reconsider laid on the table Agreed to without objection. (another 'present' vote would have taken place)
12/17/2005:
Cleared for White House.
12/19/2005:
Presented to President.
12/20/2005:
Signed by President.
12/20/2005:
Became Public Law No: 109-129.

~~~~~
So, three 'present' votes over a 7 month period were required for this one bill to pass into law. I'm a research slut, but to research 130 'present' votes is a bit much, even for me.

For anyone else who cares to do it, I recommend The Library of Congress - THOMAS to obtain voting records and, yanno, a bottle of asprin for the headache you'll get trying to do all that reading for all those bills. Let me know how it all turns out and I'll be happy to copy off your homework.

edited to clarify the red highlights

< Message edited by BitaTruble -- 9/9/2008 3:29:29 PM >


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RE: Obama's "Community Organization" ACORN - 9/9/2008 3:54:16 PM   
Mercnbeth


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Bita - I share you research 'slutty-ness'. When I looked into this I found this reference in the Boston Globe which contains both sides of the argument.
quote:

Clinton highlights several of Obama's "present" votes that she considers questionable.
Several involve abortion -- a ban on certain late-pregnancy abortions, a requirement that a minor's parents be notified and restrictions on a type of abortion where the fetus sometimes survives for short periods.
"A woman's right to choose ... demands a leader who will stand up and protect it," said one Clinton campaign mailer.
But the Illinois Planned Parenthood Council says Obama's "present" votes were actually part of a careful strategy to prevent those restrictions from passing.
President Pam Sutherland said the group feared several senators were going to vote "yes" on the legislation because of attacks from Republicans over their past opposition. Sutherland says she approached Obama and convinced him to vote "present" so that the wavering senators would do the same. For their purposes, a "present" was as good as an outright "no" because it kept the bills from reaching the majority needed to pass.
Clinton also points out that Obama was the lone "present" vote on legislation allowing the victims of rape and other sex crimes to have their court records sealed. Obama explains now that he had questions about its constitutionality, although the law has never been struck down by the courts.
Neither the Illinois Coalition Against Sexual Assault nor the House sponsor of the legislation faults Obama for his vote. Former state representative Lauren Beth Gash, who supports Obama for president, said she ultimately disagreed with his constitutional concerns but that Obama raised legitimate questions and was acting on principle.
Obama also voted "present" on legislation making it easier to send juveniles to adult court. He said in debate that he felt the measure violated an agreement, reached after an overhaul of the juvenile justice system a year earlier, to wait on further changes until the new system had been reviewed.
But he did not explain why he wasn't simply voting "no."
Source: http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/01/24/fact_check_obamas_present_votes/


Granted this article focuses more on the Illinois Senate than the US Senate. However, the fundamental question still remains; is this the voting record of a confident man ready to make and stand behind his position as President? Senator Clinton, sharing the same Senate position, made her position know through her votes. Sometimes, as is the cases of going to war in Iraq and continuing to fund Iraq, came back to haunt her. Senator Obama choose to be obtuse. Although I think it noteworthy that he did vote 'YEA' on funding the war though February 2009. 

For those interested - here is a link to the total Senate voting record of the junior Senator from Illinois: http://www.congress.org/bio/id/3181

Not that it matters at this point but here as a contrast is Senator Clinton's voting record. Same Bills, same period, only 3 'not voting', to Senator Obama's 8. However the leader in the Senate 'clubhouse' over the same period - Senator McCain with 10; who, if I'm reading the source correctly, last voted 'YEA' for the confirmation of Leslie Southwick of Mississippi to be a US Circuit Judge, on October 2007. Senator McCain's voting record: http://www.congress.org/bio/id/192 

I think there is less scrutiny on his recent votes because he has 22 years of votes between his years in the House and Senate and Senator Obama has 22 months. You can find different examples, some in self contradiction, of Senator McCain's votes on any given issue. It is impossible to find one concerning Senator Obama.

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RE: Obama's "Community Organization" ACORN - 9/9/2008 4:06:39 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

I am used to the technicalities and nuances, it seems to be a pattern with Sen. Obama.  To claim that he never worked for them is false though, as he was lead council for them when they sued the state of Illinois. The other nuanced ways of getting around an "official" working relationship, seems odd at best.  As ACORN themselves have admitted that he has trained their folks on an annual basis.

That's about the same as saying a Chicago politician doesn't take bribes and kickbacks because he doesn't file taxes on the money he collects.

Did you read the OP and the blog he linked to?
quote:

I thought it might be of interest to read one view on the organization that Obama worked for as an "activist".

and then Michelle Malkin, she of paisley scarf hysteria,
quote:

He cut his ideological teeth working with ACORN as a "community organizer"

It's just plain not true.

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