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Boys will be girls... - 9/11/2008 12:13:38 PM

OttersSwim

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I am not sure why it is, but in our society there are males who really connect and need some part of the female expressed in their lives and being. This varies from guys who just wear panties, to those that choose to go all the way and become female.

What I have seen reading on the forums here these past two weeks, is that the problem of -repression- of gender identity rears its ugly head even here, and perhaps here more than most places as CM appears to be a first stop for many male folk who are just coming to grips with this dichotomy of male and female inside them. For many, it is a repressed part of themselves that they have denied or hidden for years. This can make a person with a large hole inside that they are desperate to fill. So many of them lack balance and perspective of the place of gender in an overall relationship and it is pretty obvious by their behavior.

I have seen that some folks here are a bit sworn off dealing with gender play as they have either had bad experiences with repressed guys, or encountered too many one-trick-ponies where it is all about a fetish. While sad, I find it completely understandable - repression does not make an excuse for bad or narcissistic behavior. I have not seen a lot of positive stuff here about gender play which, if taken in balance, can be pretty wonderful and fulfilling for all parties. I think a strong identification with the female can be a positive influence in a man’s life and can be a fun part of play. Cuz, girls are awesome…and boys are awesome…and when you put them together in one person, well…I think that can be pretty awesome too…

I wanted to just put this out there in hopes of starting a thread of how cross dressing and gender play can be a good and fulfilling part of an overall relationship. And in hopes that as a community, when we encounter a person on the boards who is repressed over gender, we steer them to open and honest solutions of acceptance, and honor of that female side, measured with balance and perspective for their lives and relationships.

Understanding that gender play is not for everyone, and that there are pitfalls and requirements of personal responsibility, how has it expressed itself positively in you and your relationships?

< Message edited by OttersSwim -- 9/11/2008 12:14:30 PM >

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RE: Boys will be girls... - 9/11/2008 5:20:58 PM

Shawn1066

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I love playing with gender. I'd say that while my sex is firmly male, my gender is a very fluid thing. I act and I behave as I feel. Sometimes, that falls quite firmly into what one would consider the feminine side of things. It's not humiliating, it's not submissive, it's just really who I am. I'm quite happy saying that I'm my Owner's girl just as much as I'm her boy.

That being said, one thing that always turns me off about gender play is when certain males seem to think that being female is the ultimate in humiliation and being submissive...

That just has too many sexist overtones for my tastes.

DV's Fox

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RE: Boys will be girls... - 9/11/2008 9:05:19 PM

Brownbohemian

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Being a bit literal but I must say...
Nothing better than a man comfortable in a skirt.
Aaaahhhhh.

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RE: Boys will be girls... - 9/12/2008 6:55:28 AM

OttersSwim

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Thanks for the replies.

I sort of suspected that this topic might lie a little dormant as I suspect that there are not a huge amount of positive experiences out there to report. While I find that sad, I do understand it - it is a stigma and a social taboo and fessing up to it and honoring it can take a lot of time and effort. Not a lot of guys make it through with a balanced perspective.

Fox, I agree with you that the whole "I want to feel female so I can be submissive" is a flaw in thinking - being female does -not- equal humiliation and being submissive. Women rightfully get their hackles raised at that and I do too. If ya want to be feminine, then own it and make it a positive contribution to a relationship.

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RE: Boys will be girls... - 9/12/2008 7:08:05 AM

sfdrew

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shawn1066

That being said, one thing that always turns me off about gender play is when certain males seem to think that being female is the ultimate in humiliation and being submissive...

While I am not interested in gender bending or full cross dressing, I do enjoy wearing panties and other womens underwear. It does bring up an interesting paradox. If I am submissive to women and respect them and look to them as my betters (most of them), then how could it be humiliating to wear womens clothing (on the outside, such as a dress)? Wouldn't that have the opposite effect of being empowering?

Even though it is lessenging around the world, the social taboo against cross dressing and appearing to be homosexual (which still ins't acceptable everywhere *cough* republicans *cough*) could have a lot to do with it. It could also stem from the idea that the submissive isn't worthy enough to wear women's clothing, but that also doesn't make since from a humiliation perspective.

It is an interesting point.

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RE: Boys will be girls... - 9/12/2008 7:56:21 AM

CallaFirestormBW

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One of the people who has served our family, as one of our 2nd circle members (living away from the main house but absolutely family) for longer than I've been a part of it is an individual who goes by a 'house' name of Charles/Charlene. Xhe is completely amazing -- a fantastic cook, great servant, gorgeous legs, truly cute in a 1950's cocktail dress... or in a tux and white gloves. Hir only real flaw is an obsession with geese and little blue bows... we forgive hir, though, because xhe truly is a Georgia Peach.

Gender is an awesome thing to explore -- but the thing that makes C/C so amazing is that xhe is a phenomenal, caring, fun, part of the family as well as being an amazingly dedicated servant. Whether butlering or dressed to the 9's for her Keeper's cocktail and art, xhe can always be counted on. On the cross or as a cocktail table for her Keeper, xhe exudes this love for who xhe is and who xhe serves.

I would take another C/C in a heartbeat -- xhe may be one of my very favorite people in the family. Too bad that hir Keeper has to live so far away... because we'd -love- to have hir around all the time.

Calla Firestorm

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 9/12/2008 7:57:45 AM >

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RE: Boys will be girls... - 9/12/2008 8:39:32 AM

OttersSwim

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I think it is important to note here that for some, finding a place of peace and balance with gender identity is much harder than just slipping on a pair of panties...

For those folk who are fully transgendered or biologically intersexed, the road is much harder and a finding peace and balance requires a walk through a type of fire that most cannot even imagine.

And for me, a person who has chosen to walk that most difficult path, is a person I would want to know.

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RE: Boys will be girls... - 9/12/2008 9:18:24 AM

Lashra

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We believe that all people have a feminine and masculine side. When one side is repressed I truly think that it causes problems in the persons life, whether they wish to admit it to themselves or not.

My sub discovered 2 years ago the joy of cross dressing. It was something he had always wanted to do secretly BUT back then he was a Dominant and afraid his girl would not accept this from him. In repressing that desire coupled with the fact that he just is not Dominant, but submissive, it really made a mess of his relationships.

Now that he has accepted who he is and does not have to wear a mask anymore, he is happier, not stressed out and doing what makes him truly happy. This for me as his Dominant makes me happy and proud of him because he dared do what other men are just to afraid to do...be himself.

~Lashra

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RE: Boys will be girls... - 9/12/2008 11:55:19 AM

HeidiAnn

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i think that it in many cultures it can be very difficult for men to express themselves in ways that are concidered feminine. Like for instance here in Finland this falls shoe fashion for women includes very masculine army boots. When will men get the same flexibility in self-expression? i do doubt that we will not be seeing heeled boots on mens department anywhere near in the future.

And i agree with what Lashra said. When someone has to suppress a part of hirself for a long time, it most likely will grow up into a big deal. Being in a state where you are ready to explode emotionally is really not a good time to build healthy relationships, but i do understand the need to share those feelings with someone. It can be a rough road, especially if your totally on your own. But then again, in the end you are always on your own in this world.

heidi

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RE: Boys will be girls... - 9/13/2008 12:39:43 PM

totalditz

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Heidi makes a good point that it's difficult in our particular culture to cross gender lines, particularly from male to female. Gender, like sexuality, is a spectrum. While this site is a vague improvement for giving 3 choices rather than 2, it doesn't do a great job expressing the wide range from male-as-caveman down to male-because-of-Y-chromosome.

No matter where one ends up in the spectrum, it distresses me to talk to a male who professes zero curiosity in gender-bending. To me, it's like eating crayons when you're young -- it's not something you do on a regular basis, but you've never been curious? Never tried it once just to see? Either such a person is either being dishonest (perhaps with himself), or has such little curiosity that he'd likely bore me to tears.

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RE: Boys will be girls... - 9/13/2008 8:30:19 PM

HornyToadsMI

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I have to be honest, it is not something that has interested us. But I will lurk here, to see what the responses are, since I have not seen a thread like this one before. Thanks OP!

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RE: Boys will be girls... - 9/13/2008 8:58:13 PM

AcademyForSlaves

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Hi.

I always like to say 'to her or his own'. People like to feel accepted by society and loved so they think everyone should be like them and do as they do so they can feel it's okay. But what kind of world would this be if everybody was the same. I like people being different. Let people make up their own mind what they want to be. I like guys who like to find their inner female. I've feminized lots of guys and I train sissies too. One of our secretaries is a crossdresser. I love our colourful staff. :)

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RE: Boys will be girls... - 9/13/2008 10:14:52 PM

E2Sweet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

I am not sure why it is, but in our society there are males who really connect and need some part of the female expressed in their lives and being. This varies from guys who just wear panties, to those that choose to go all the way and become female.

Over the years, I've wondered the same thing, and in recently discussing it with a number of others who, in some fashion, dabble in M-F gender-bending I've come to realize we all seem to share one common experience: being exposed to more females or female influence in their earliest days as a living creature (I'm being careful here, Mod11) as opposed to male influence. I know of no one who is M-F who does not agree to some extent that an out-of-balance exposure to females versus males in your youth is a big factor. It certainly holds true for my background.

quote:

...For many, it is a repressed part of themselves that they have denied or hidden for years. This can make a person with a large hole inside that they are desperate to fill...

For anyone who is curious as to what its like to be male and live with a secret desire to express a feminine side of your personality, this is an excellent description of the negative feeling that goes along with that initial desire... and then there's the depression that often results from all of the confusion, and feelings of not fitting in with others. Add to that the dealing with the reality of how you'd be thought of by friends, family, and the general public if anyone found out... Then compound all that by harboring the desire to make changes to your appearance to more closely mimmick female physical traits... It's pretty heavy stuff to carry around for year after year with no release valve to vent it.

The most common response to that is, "Just stop doing it." But what a lot of people don't realize is that you reach a certain point where the feminine side gets all interwoven into your overall personality and identity, and at that point, there's simply no going back... Its just not humanly possible as its become part of who you are.

...and I'm honestly not commenting on it this way to rally any kind of sympathy by any stretch, it's simply the reality of this situation. All M-F's that I now and have asked are quite familiar with these feelings and issues and the damage it does to one's personal life if its not dealt with in a reasonably healthy way.

quote:

...I think a strong identification with the female can be a positive influence in a man’s life and can be a fun part of play...

I'll agree with both, but I think it depends on the person and how they express their femme side really. It can be done positively but also very negatively. It's also pretty easy to be naive and pay a serious price for expressing it in a non-accepting enviornment.

Regarding gender play: Some folks are just plain put off by gender play, and to me, that's absolutely OK. Its much more important to be honest about your likes and dislikes rather than trying to be too politically correct or too open to different types of play for your own good. I certainly don't harbor any hard feelings toward folks that just don't get into it.

All that being said, gender bending is not contageous, so y'all that don't find it appealing are indeed quite safe being around someone who is a CD/TV/TG.

quote:

...how has it expressed itself positively in you and your relationships?

As I state in my profile, you would be amazed at what you learn about the two sexes when you step out of your perceived gender and catch a glimpse of life from the other's perspective. I can tell you many of the issues that we hear women and men complain about regarding the other sex become very apparent and visible. Its just extremely interesting to me to see things like that from a different perspective and say to yourself, " Oh, now I get it!"...

As for relationships, no one I've ever been in a relationship with has ever known. I just couldn't deal with the awkwardness of admitting it or the aftermath that would ensue. Really, I doubt that (until fairly recently) I had the proper skills to handle it anyway. But, that is not going to happen any more, as I'm personally sick and tired of keeping 20+ year old secrets from women that I take a liking to... It just sucks to constantly feel like some kind of liar, even if it's by omission. I can say from experience, that particular burden wears on a person, and its just not fair to the other individual in the relationship at all...

..and I'll stop there cause that's more than enough personal information to air in public...

< Message edited by E2Sweet -- 9/13/2008 10:20:19 PM >

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RE: Boys will be girls... - 9/13/2008 10:44:59 PM

OttersSwim

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What a great reply E2Sweet, thank you. :)

Sounds like you have walked a difficult road and it is great that you shared some of it with us. I think you are right that the connection to the female can be positive or negative, and that the concealment - especially in a relationship - can lead to a negative path indeed.

We are people who do not (for whatever reason) identify with a single gender. Some of us can be positive, happy, and very secure in our identity. This can make us really cool people to know and to establish relationship with.

I have found it very wearing to see so much negativity around "boys who will be girls" when the general perspective and perception comes mostly from negative exposure to men who are still struggling coming to grips with who they are.

Those of us who have made some part of the journey often get painted with the same broad brush and while that is understandable, I want to work to change the perception that this is not a -hopeless- fetish, but is a journey and a path to fulfillment and something that can be cool and very special. :)

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