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RE: socialism, what is it? - 9/20/2008 6:27:58 AM   
cloudboy


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You sound ready to work at a USCIS Service Center.

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RE: socialism, what is it? - 9/20/2008 7:14:21 AM   
TheHeretic


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        I've already done my time in uniform, Clouds, but the border patrol would be another option for national service.

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That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: socialism, what is it? - 9/20/2008 8:12:15 AM   
Lorr47


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quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub


Socialism can be easily defined by the "words" of Barack Obama.  It is a belief that government has all of the answers that the "little people" need, that a big central government in control of all the production of goods and services would not all the solutions to people so much better than individuals acting on their own...

There is no where on earth where socialism has not resutlted in huge tax burdens by the serfs unlucky to live within its borders. Ever wonder why European countries that democrats so want to emulate pay hold such outrageously high taxes on goods and services...socialization of their economies was the root cause.  For Amerca, socialism would be be the beginning of the end of our young republic.
[



September 19, 2008 Grand Rapids Press reporting on Conservative George Will's speech at the JW Mariott:   "Will said the Bush administration has taken government involvement in the daily lives of Americans to new heights.   "'We may be witnessing the most left-wing, the most liberal administration (Bush's) in U.S. history,’ Will said. “This is an astonishingly interventionist administration.’”   “ ‘If the Democratic party cannot win the presidency this year, it has to get out politics and into a new line of work,' he said. ' In his wildest dreams, Barack Obama could not advocate a bigger government  than the one your getting (from Bush).'"*** (Emphasis added.)

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RE: socialism, what is it? - 9/20/2008 9:01:25 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


       Prison guards.  The union here in CA just made the news again, talking about a recall campaign against Governor(ator) Schwarzenegger.  Most government employees (there are going to be weird exceptions) don't get to have unions under my plan.  Certainly not prison guards.  Not the pothole crews either.  Those jobs are going to be filled as a three year option under the mandatory national service laws.  The management, the cadre, will be permanent hires with a whole different package, but the grunts will come and go. 
     


So you think socialism is an anthema but a dictatorship is fine?

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RE: socialism, what is it? - 9/20/2008 9:09:33 AM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
So you think socialism is an anthema but a dictatorship is fine?



      What the hell are you talking about, MC???  Living your entire life as one of the micromanaged herd is fine and dandy, but each citizen owing the country a period of service is dictatorship?

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: socialism, what is it? - 9/20/2008 10:00:03 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
So you think socialism is an anthema but a dictatorship is fine?



    What the hell are you talking about, MC???  Living your entire life as one of the micromanaged herd is fine and dandy, but each citizen owing the country a period of service is dictatorship?


Yes. I'm probably less micromanaged than you. Political correctness and the smoking ban where ideas imported into Europe from the US. and there is certainly  less uniforms and national flags flying here than I tend to see in America.

Thankfully Germany is resisting teh smoking ban and with language difference, political correctness is less ingrained.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 9/20/2008 10:01:21 AM >


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RE: socialism, what is it? - 9/20/2008 10:13:28 AM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Yes. I'm probably less micromanaged than you. Political correctness and the smoking ban where ideas imported into Europe from the US. and there is certainly  less uniforms and national flags flying here than I tend to see in America.

Thankfully Germany is resisting teh smoking ban and with language difference, political correctness is less ingrained.


       Let's test that theory, shall we, MC?  Walk down a street over in your part of the world wearing a T-shirt with one of those Danish cartoons on it.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: socialism, what is it? - 9/20/2008 10:52:26 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Yes. I'm probably less micromanaged than you. Political correctness and the smoking ban where ideas imported into Europe from the US. and there is certainly  less uniforms and national flags flying here than I tend to see in America.

Thankfully Germany is resisting teh smoking ban and with language difference, political correctness is less ingrained.


      Let's test that theory, shall we, MC?  Walk down a street over in your part of the world wearing a T-shirt with one of those Danish cartoons on it.


With Bush nationalizing the American economy at the moment, you've got some balls calling European social democrats, socialists micromanagers.

Actually, nothing would happen about the cartoons, in fact I think you can buy them on Tee shirts.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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RE: socialism, what is it? - 9/21/2008 8:16:08 AM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Let me know if this project is a go and I will make some calls. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy
Maybe you should write a book and i'll turn it into a play........we could get Vendeval to put it on in California........who knows, we could start a revolution




      Hehehehehe...   The same thing happened to me with Obama's '04 speech to the DNC.  We talk in vague generalities of change and unity, everybody comes together and sings kumbaya...  Get into some specifics and it gets quiet again. 

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: socialism, what is it? - 9/21/2008 4:11:31 PM   
MadAxeman


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Most of western and northern Europe have better health and education than Britain and on average their citizens are richer than the average Brit.

This is a patent untruth. Exam passes are the highest they have ever been and the highest proportion of students in Europe continuing to university are from Britain. People from all over the world (health tourists) come here to exploit our FREE health system. There are waiting lists for this, which have increased a little with the recent economic squeeze. As for rich, it is a high tax and high benefit economy. It is possible (although I'm not recommending this) to live in Britain on welfare benefits with your education, healthcare, local taxes (council tax) and rent paid for by the state. One only has to pay for electricity, food and clothing. Food here isn't expensive because of taxes, food in America is cheap because of subsidies (you can find copious information regarding the global effects of this). It seems from here that unless you are wealthy, good health and education are not readily available in the States. If you are going to use the likes of denmark, Lichtenstein or the Vatican as examples of 'most of Europe' who wants or is able to live there? France is always on strike and Germany is broke.

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RE: socialism, what is it? - 9/21/2008 6:34:24 PM   
cloudboy


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Currently on WALL STREET, it about socializing losses and privatizing profits.

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RE: socialism, what is it? - 9/21/2008 7:07:50 PM   
bipolarber


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In the US, "socialism" is about:

> being able to send your kids to schools, for a ridiculously petty ammount of money (until college) and have them attend "classes"... which are groups of kids learning together.

> they get to these "classes" by riding in busses which travel on "roads" which have been built and paid for via public funds.

> when they want water to drink, they go to a fountain, and are supplied with clean, healthy water via a public water system.

> when they take a shit, the waste is carried to a public treatment plant where it's treated and disposed of in a way that doesn't endanger public health, or the enviroment.

> If their house should catch on fire, or someone should try to break in and steal their stuff, they can call the fire department, or the cops, who are also publicly funded.

> When they turn on their lights at night, and to heat/cool their homes, they usually do so via linking to a public "grid." (although privately owned, the project which brought electricity to the rural areas- the bulk of the US population- was a government project.)

And so on. We could bring up stuff like FDIC, the eradication of polio, smallpox, malaria, but really, why bother? When you start to look at the sheer number of things that have happened that took place under "socialist" programs, you can begin to lose count.

BUT:

If you should have a car accident, or find that you have cancer... in this country you have to give up everything to survive. There have been cases of people having to sell their homes, use up any retirement they may have saved for, even divorice their spouses, just to get the medical treatment they need....
   Hospital stays can cost upward of $2000 a day. There are tests and treatments out there that cost more than a new car. Pills that are as much as $500 per dose.

    You REALLY think that this is right?

I can see where a wrinkly old dude who's so fucking rich, he can't remember how many houses he owns, would think that getting a lousy visit to the doctor wouldn't be a big deal. To many of us... (about 43% of the US population who are uninsured) it can mean being able to eat that week,  or not... if we want to pay for a $150 office visit out of pocket. And even if we make the choice of going to the Doctor, we might not be able to afford the life saving work that they might need to provide. Literally, it's a life and death situation for many of America's poorest, and oldest Americans.

But, the republicans have a history of not giving a shit about poor and old people. I think the other thread on this subject is entitled "Hurry up and die allready!"

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RE: socialism, what is it? - 9/21/2008 8:20:51 PM   
Owner59


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Socialism is when the government nationalizes the largest insurance carrier in the nation.


Hey republicans/neo-cons,aren`t you glad we stopped you from privatizing social security and investing all those trillions in Wall Street?


I know I am.

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President Obama

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