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ORIGINAL: Bella1965

G'morning all:


Frankly, I don't see the big uproar. Plenty of people do things around us all day long that impinge on personal freedoms, tastes, rights, morals, etc. all day long that we don't consent to being exposed to. The mother breast feeding her toddler on a train. The man smoking a cigarette as he walks by you. A car rolls past playing music with obscene lyrics.

Who are you to judge right and wrong? Especially on a site you visited without coercion? There's a great deal of power you can wield. Simply surf elsewhere. You can pick this to death but the fact remains... You chose to be there. *shrugs* Reminds me of people watching car accidents.


Stay safe, play nice, & share your toys w/ others...





Bella

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ORIGINAL: Bella1965

Who are you to judge right and wrong? Especially on a site you visited without coercion? There's a great deal of power you can wield. Simply surf elsewhere.

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ORIGINAL: slavefortpe08
For me, it would bother me if children or seniors were subjected to things like that in public. For those 18-65 I wouldn't worry as much, but it is still poor taste (albeit a turn on for some).

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ORIGINAL: SoulPiercer
And yes .. even the "bystanders" have to sign a release, either that or you have to blur out every single face in the shot.

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Folks .. they block off entire sections Las Vegas to shoot scenes for CSI, or downtown Dallas when Walker, Texas Ranger was on the air. These are controlled sets.

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ORIGINAL: john32
i dont intend to be rude however one of us is missing the point here.  I suspect it isnt me.  If you lived wherever they are filming this (budhapest) and your vanila friend was walking down the street with his 5 year old child, they would see this. they would not have choosen to see it, they wouldnt voluntary go to see it, they would just happen across it on the way to the store to buy another  goddamn barney tape.  This particular situation isnt a cigaret, it isnt a mother breastfeeding it is anal fisting.  The complaint as I see it, is not that it is available on the internet. The complaint as i see it, is that a company some of us respect and like is behaving in a way we dont like or respect.
... It was a fucking hot scene to...

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ORIGINAL: Bella1965
You're gullible enough to believe this wasn't staged, as other posters have pointed out? *chuckles*

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ORIGINAL: Bella1965
You're gullible enough to believe this wasn't staged, as other posters have pointed out? *chuckles* If you don't like the way a company behaves, stop giving them your patronage.

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ORIGINAL: AnnabelHell

I have fairly firm opinions on this topic - some of which may be controversial, but never the less, here they are.

Every single community has laws and standards in place for this sort of thing. Anytime you decide to do ANYTHING in public you subject yourself to these laws. If you choose to break them you also choose to submit to the possible consequences. Regardless of what we do, or don't do, in public there are laws and regulations. When people choose to behave in ways that break local laws and offend people generally there are repercussions to be dealt with.

Public play is a personal choice that I have been known to participate in but, for myself, I do so responsibly. At the same time, I really don't care what anyone else thinks about it, and I have been complained about more than once in the past for the kind of play I was doing, and where I was doing it. I have been asked to leave, and had the police called on me (though I have never been taken to jail.) I have also had it turn into something people enjoyed watching, that they were curious about, asked questions about, and generally had a good time with. It all depends on your audience. I, for one, never did it for the audience, I just happen to be an exhibitionist who considers her lifestyle to be personal art.

For example, I attend a great many national events which are staged at hotels. Sometimes the entire hotel is booked for the event and dedicated just to the community - but not usually. Most of the time there are a couple of floors and conference rooms dedicated to the classes and dungeons - but many of the guest rooms and restaurants are still open to the public. There are usually some rules such as no nudity outside the dungeons - but still you have people walking down the halls in full fetish regalia, eating dinner collared and chained, and what have you. Like my girl in a pink tutu and tight corset with a large, well huge, round lollipop stuck in her mouth like a ball-gag while her hands were cuffed behind her back. No, she wasn't nude, but she was certainly in bondage with her breasts at full attention. I fully enjoyed the stares we got while walking down the hall and the red blush of humiliation on her cheeks. Later that weekend an Indian wedding party, with all of their families, checked into the hotel. The difference in culture and community passing in the lobby was obvious between veiled demure traditional women and scantily dressed slave girls in chains and yet somehow we all managed to exist in the same space peacefully all of our events going off without a hitch. I can't say as I would have wanted to be the manager on duty at the time, but whoever they were they handled it exceptionally well.

Another example would be when I was in rural Virgina shooting a pony play video for Playboy and appearing on Playboy's Sexcetera. The bulk of the shoot was on private land. I was there with several fellow artists and all weekend we kept thinking how much we'd love to ride through the town. So, on Sunday we convinced the film crew to go with us and we took pony and cart into the small town. Since having a nude pony would probably get us thrown in jail she decided instead to wear a full latex catsuit with her pony gear, but still. Pony cart, me in corset, riding hat, and gothic skirts, pony in full skintight latex and hooves out in the city streets in conservative Virginia. We decided to go to Dairy Queen. Upon arriving we first went inside and told the manager we were in town filming with Playboy and could we please go through the drive through for an ice-cream cone while they filmed. The manager was highly amused and said yes. So, we did. I drove pony and cart through, paid for my ice cream, and shared it with my pony in the parking lot; all while being filmed. Then we went inside and took pictures with the manager and crew. There were children there when this happened. No one complained. In fact, people were very curious and on their cell phones calling people. Across the street people came out of their houses with video camera and before we left we had a crowd outside asking us questions and having a grand old time riding in the pony cart. We had a great time and you can even see it on Playboy.

Did I feel bad that children were there? No. We weren't doing anything sexual. Even though our costumes were adult and pony play is fetish. Yes, there was bondage. It wasn't up to me to judge what was ok for those people or not. The same as we had a choice to be there, and the manager had a choice to allow it - people also had a choice to leave. Anytime you are in public, if something is going on that you don't like, you have the choice to leave. You have the choice to call the police. You have the choice to speak out against what you are seeing or hearing. The same as when you do things in public people have the same choices in regards to you. The only person you can control is yourself.

Like I said, I try and be responsible about my public play. I do like the thrill of being seen, of the possibility of being caught, the taboo of being out in the open; but I also value my personal freedom and do not want to go to jail. I try not to break any laws. I try and be respectful of the kind of crowd that is around. I, personally, would never engage in sexual behavior with children present. If I a going to a place of business, such as Dairy Queen, I will generally ask the manager on duty if we can do the things we have in mind, or at least give them a heads up that we are there. It isn't always planned I have gotten into some unexpected illicit hot sex in places that weren't so private. Sometimes it just happens and you go with the moment. If a girl is bent over and her ass is ripe with no panties under that skirt sometimes you just can't resist getting your hands on her, rules be damned. I can't speak for anyone but myself but I am comfortable in my skin and with my lifestyle. I try to make a positive impression on the public and be a role model in the community - but at the same time I am no prude and I have been known to shock in public from time to time.

All I can tell you is that I am fine with public play so long as the people are conscious there are consequences if you behave like a moron. People absolutely will call the cops on you, and if you are a complete idiot, you will go to jail. It's not for everyone and if it's not for you - don't do it. If you don't want to see it - don't watch it. But, at the same time as we all demand the personal freedom to have our lifestyle, we have no right to judge the play and lifestyle of others. If people go beyond the limits of the community they are in you can count on them having to deal with the cause of their actions. No greater punishment or comment is needed. If you play in public you subject yourself to public response for good or ill. If you play in public for the purpose of upsetting people and causing a scene you will reap what you sow.

Is that going to keep me from doing what I do? Probably not, and I have yet to feel bad about doing it. I cannot speak for Kink as I have not seen the mentioned content yet but I HAVE shot video in Hungary and Budapest and the laws there are a lot less strict than here. However, the local populace was very old world and traditional and we did get a lot of negative attention in the form of stares and admonishment from older women. We were perfectly legal, with permits even (I would assume kink has permission to do what they are doing if they are shooting on any kind of regular basis) but some people didn't like it. A lot of adult content sites and porn establishments are based there, however, because of the laws and acceptance of this kind of work. It's one of the places in the world you can do this legally. As with any kind of public exhibition the people watching have the option of leaving. I found it interesting to note that even the women who didn't seem to like what we were doing stayed to watch until the very end. Even those offended by it at first seemed drawn to it and so fascinated by it that even if they wanted to, they couldn't stop watching us. I will note that there were no children present and people with children who happened by left pretty quickly. It's pretty obvious, though, when you have cameras and a bunch of people around something is going on. It's not like you are just sitting on a street corner having sex - which I have also seen people do. Granted I also saw them carted off naked in a police car, go figure. While I love bondage, naked in the back of a cruiser in hand cuffs is not my idea of a good time.

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ORIGINAL: Bella1965

To rob425. Never fails to amuse me how people will pick apart a post of mine and only subject the bits they find disagreeable to scrutiny. Then to check my profile, see where I reside and make derogatory comments based on location. I base my opinion on my own views, not having been made immune to them through shock value. Of course a documentary is going to be trumped up to validate the appearance of footage being made in public. I suppose you believe everything you watch or read?

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ORIGINAL: rob425
Sorry and failing to watch the movie where they tell you how they treat the dangers of shooting in public and how they did the public shoot is acting as an ostrich....You have the information but you fail to watch it you just stick your head in the ground ignoring it.
I urge you to watch the documentary and then make a judgment for yourself if it’s staged or not. Being someone who is known for doing loads of research I look at every piece of information I have available before I make conclusions. Now looking into the other shoots done for the website to date that I know of are all closed set gang bangs scenes, I do my research.
While exposing those non-consenting isn't for everyone (and not personally cool with me) I believe that it can show the lifestyle in a positive light not just the negative portrayal it gets.
Please answer undergroundsea's question because he is bringing up some good point.
Again Bella I urge you take all the possible information you have available before you make conclusions, instead of acting like and ostrich going  ignoring the information I gave you to explain HOW Kink.com treats their public shoots.

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ORIGINAL: SoulPiercer

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ORIGINAL: slavefortpe08
For me, it would bother me if children or seniors were subjected to things like that in public. For those 18-65 I wouldn't worry as much, but it is still poor taste (albeit a turn on for some).

Bingo! That's exactly how you know it's staged. Minors never, ever appear in any of the shots.

And yes .. even the "bystanders" have to sign a release, either that or you have to blur out every single face in the shot.

Folks .. they block off entire sections Las Vegas to shoot scenes for CSI, or downtown Dallas when Walker, Texas Ranger was on the air. These are controlled sets.

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ORIGINAL: Aynne88

Exactly.

This is staged, and the people that well frankly think otherwise are perhaps just wishing?

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ORIGINAL: AAkasha

A lot of people believe "reality TV" isn't scripted, either.  They are counting on most people being gullible, and the rest wanting to believe the fantasy so much they are willing to suspend belief.

Akasha

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ORIGINAL: Bella1965
To undergroundsea. All so-called public shoots like this are staged. Pornographic companies face enough legal hassles as it is. You really believe they'd subject themselves to further prosecution by not getting signed releases and closing down an area?

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ORIGINAL: Aynne88

Exactly.

This is staged, and the people that well frankly think otherwise are perhaps just wishing?

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ORIGINAL: SoulPiercer
Bingo! That's exactly how you know it's staged. Minors never, ever appear in any of the shots.

And yes .. even the "bystanders" have to sign a release, either that or you have to blur out every single face in the shot.

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ORIGINAL: AAkasha
A lot of people believe "reality TV" isn't scripted, either.  They are counting on most people being gullible, and the rest wanting to believe the fantasy so much they are willing to suspend belief.

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As said by kink-pr on their discussion board in response to exposing vanilla to kinky activities:

We do understand your concerns, and we considered these very issues quite seriously before undertaking this new venture.

For Public Disgrace, we try to be as mindful as possible of the people in the vicinity of our scene. First, we have lookouts posted and stop shooting immediately (and cover up the model) if anyone underage approaches. Second, the explicit sexual acts are generally conducted in a location that can be semi-secured in one way or another; there are usually two routes in or out of the location and we have lookouts posted there.

That said, we do recognize that some of the nudity and/or bondage are visible to people who have not consented to see it. While they haven't consented to this ahead of time, we also don't approach or involve them if they do not seek it out. The social standards where we shoot are very different than those in North America; one sees sex and nudity on the newsstands and TV (there was even, in fact, a news story about Public Disgrace in which the nudity was not blurred!). Witnessing nudity or clothed bondage, therefore, doesn’t tend to be offensive to the average person on the street in the areas we shoot as it might be in some other places. So far we have not received any complaints from passers-by.

Each of our webmasters develops their site based on their own favorite turn-ons. This is one of Donna's. While we know we are pushing the envelope and taking the risk of exposing people who don't want to be exposed, we do take steps to minimize that effect. It may not always be 100% evident from the scenes or from the stills, but our crew is definitely putting some care into this.

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Intrusion: An HBO camera crew filmed models posing naked on New York City streets for a program called "Real:Sex." A bystander who saw a crowd gathered around the models stopped to see what was happening, was filmed as part of the crowd, and appeared on the program in introductory footage as part of the crowd and in a close-up. She had no invasion of privacy claim because she voluntarily joined a crowed gathered at a newsworthy event, and her embarrassment alone could not support an invasion claim. Gaeta v. Home Box Office, 645 N.Y.S.2d 707 (N.Y. Civ. Ct. 1996).

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5. The use of a film clip of a New Orleans Mardi Gras parade as background for an adult movie called Candy the Stripper, which focused on drugs and sex and was produced by Playboy, prompted a false light claim by persons in the parade. Louisiana Court of Appeals held that the mere appearance of a person in a background crowd scene in an adult movie does not put that person in the false light of having voluntarily chosen to appear in such a film. Easter Seal Soc For Crippled Children and Adults of Louisiana, Inc. v. Playboy Enterprises, Inc., 530 So. 2d 643, 648 (La. Co. App. 4th Cir. 1988).

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Photography of individuals is unrestricted where the subject has a reasonable expectation of being photographed, such as on the street or at a tourist attraction. Photography without consent of someone in a place where they have a reasonable expectation of privacy, could be considered to be against the European convention on human rights, however in general there is no right to privacy under UK law, and photograph of individuals may be used for any purposes. In addition persistent or aggressive photography of a single individual may come under the legal definition of harassment. [1]