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Worldwide Stock Slide! - 9/17/2008 9:06:13 PM

MzMia

Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
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MzMia does not pretend to be an expert or any type of authority
on the economy.

But the worldwide stock market seems to be going downhill fast.
Stocks are sliding in the U.S.A., Japan, Russia, what the hell is going on?

Stock are sliding all over the place, what is happening?
Where is President Bush? Has anyone seen him?
Is he on vacation?

< Message edited by MzMia -- 9/17/2008 9:37:13 PM >

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Post #: 1

RE: Worldwide Stock Slide! - 9/17/2008 9:42:19 PM

Hippiekinkster

Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

MzMia does not pretend to be an expert or any type of authority
on the economy.

But the worldwide stock market seems to be going downhill fast.
Stock Markets in the U.S.A., Japan, Russia, what the hell is going on?

Stock are sliding all over the place, what is happening?
Where is President Bush? Has anyone seen him?
Is he on vacation?

Hahaha Bush has been on vacation since Jan 20, 2001.

Just like the housing bubble the Repubs created, they also created a debt bubble. The slow, steady erosion of the dollar's value vis-a-vis the Euro has been a clue for around 6 years now. So has the explosive growth in derivatives and the Hedge Funds that trade them. Derivatives are serious voodoo "investments".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivative_(finance)
"The OTC derivative market is the largest market for derivatives, and is unregulated. According to the Bank for International Settlements, the total outstanding notional amount is $596 trillion (as of December 2007)[1]. Of this total notional amount, 66% are interest rate contracts, 10% are credit default swaps (CDS), 9% are foreign exchange contracts, 2% are commodity contracts, 1% are equity contracts, and 12% are other. OTC derivatives are largely subject to counterparty risk, as the validity of a contract depends on the counterparty's solvency and ability to honor its obligations."

Think about that number again. It's closer to ONE QUADRILLION dollars today. All in monopoly paper. All totally unregulated. UNREGULATED. (remember, government is evil)

You should be scared. Even money market funds aren't safe (see my latest thread).

We are well and truly fucked. Well, not the rich. They have their lawmakers and lawyers, lobbyists and tax cuts, loopholes for tax-free transfers, offshore accounts, and all that shit. And the Republicans have done nothing so much as protect the moneyed class. That is their whole raison d'etre (sp?). That is their Dogma. Trickle down. (Trickle away to Liechtenstein is more like it.) That is the sole reason the Republican Party exists. And the misguided fools who vote for them... the English language has almost a million words, but it lacks one for this level of ignorant stupidity.
"If'n ah votes for that Bush feller, why, he might cut my taxes so much I can buy 10 cases of beer!"

"People get the government they deserve" has never been so true. And there has been a complete failure to learn from history. During and after the Depression, all those pesky regulations were put in place for a reason. And we prospered for almost 70 years. Until the Busheviks and the Chicago School of Economics.

Gonna be a helluva ride down, folks.

_____________________________

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Post #: 2

RE: Worldwide Stock Slide! - 9/17/2008 9:52:09 PM

cyberdude611

Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline

Different things are happening all at once....

There is the credit and mortgage problems in the west. Oil prices went up too high and too fast in the summer and are now crashing causing problems in Russia and the mid-east. Russia also spooked investors with their little adventure in Georgia last month.

All this has a domino effect in Asian markets and in Europe.

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 3

RE: Worldwide Stock Slide! - 9/17/2008 9:55:21 PM

cyberdude611

Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline

By the way....did you hear the quote from Harry Reid today? The Senate Majority leader said....

"No one knows what to do. We are in new territory here. This is a different game. We're not here playing soccer, basketball or football, this is a new game and we're going to have to figure out how to do it."

So it doesnt look like the government has figured it out yet.

(in reply to cyberdude611)

Post #: 4

RE: Worldwide Stock Slide! - 9/17/2008 10:41:04 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

Well, it's not a president's job to help out the stock market and even if it were the Moron who went to "YALE" is too dumb to do anything about it anyway.
At some point the market will be a heck of a deal!
I watch about 15-20 stocks and I'm seeing some real deals now.
Some finance guys said on the news tonight that oil is "dropping like a stone and will continue to do so for the forseeable future."
That will make Mia and everyone else happy!
So, we may very well see $2.00 - $2.50 per gal gas in a few months.
So, when you gas up just fill it to halfway, a few days later it'll be cheaper.

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Post #: 5

RE: Worldwide Stock Slide! - 9/17/2008 11:12:28 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

MzMia does not pretend to be an expert or any type of authority
on the economy.

But the worldwide stock market seems to be going downhill fast.
Stocks are sliding in the U.S.A., Japan, Russia, what the hell is going on?

Stock are sliding all over the place, what is happening?
Where is President Bush? Has anyone seen him?
Is he on vacation?

This really is an unprecedented situation.

The collapse of the mortgage bond market should be causing deflation, or at the least be acting as a strong break on inflation, as an enormous amount of money has simply disappeared.

However as we all know we are experiencing significant price inflation. This seems to be primarily due to oil and gas prices. So our economy is experiencing price inflation and a significant contraction of the money supply which is causing turmoil due to the natural solution to either problem would simply make the other issue worse.

The world economy is experiencing ripples from our capital market woes since our big institutional invetsors are big players in the rest of the world as well as being hit by the high crude prices, but not as hard due to lower consumption.

The fact of the matter is no quick fix is at hand. We basically have to either bail out all the mortgage holders to shore up the underlying bonds, fiscally impossible, or we have to accept that these bad investments are going to continue to bring down big companies with large investments in that field, some of which we may have to save to keep the chaos to a minimum.

If oil prices are truly a result of independent speculators then that bubble will burst, prices will crash and add another deflationary pressure. However from what I've seen the oil market was not driven by speculators and while some of these people are losing badly right now the big companies are manipulating prices for their own purposes. They may scale back prices this fall to try and stabilize the world economy and keep investigators from looking at their books too closely.

Internationally this turmoil will cause an economic downturn due to a loss of investment capital. How bad and how widespread waits to be seen but IMO it won't be as severe as what we're going to have between now and next summer.

Personally beyond making sure my brokerage and 401(k) management company are financially stable I'm holding my positions and will continue to contribute to my retirement fund as this is an ideal time to buy as the market will definitely go higher between now and my retirement. I might even make some stock purchases if the markets keep going down. However I'm also being frugal in my spending so if I do get laid off I'll have a good sized cushion for the job search.

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 6

RE: Worldwide Stock Slide! - 9/17/2008 11:55:47 PM

Hippiekinkster

Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline

This might be worth reading for anyone who, like myself, has no idea what is going on.

http://www.jewishpolicycenter.org/article/223

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 7

RE: Worldwide Stock Slide! - 9/18/2008 12:40:42 AM

TheUtopian

Posts: 259
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

MzMia does not pretend to be an expert or any type of authority
on the economy.

But the worldwide stock market seems to be going downhill fast.
Stocks are sliding in the U.S.A., Japan, Russia, what the hell is going on?

Stock are sliding all over the place, what is happening?
Where is President Bush? Has anyone seen him?
Is he on vacation?

Mia.....

Before I get started, I wanna point something very important out that's been erroneously stated :

The reason why you are seeing the per barrel price for oil drop on the world market has nothing at all do with supply and demand and everything to do with rank futures speculation.

All of the investment banks and hedge funds are either heavily weighted down by what's known as ''off balance sheet '' liabilities in the form of paper bet against paper bet against even more paper, leveraged at margins approaching 25 to 1 or, they're completely bankrupt like Lehman Brothers.{Their liabilities far outweigh their assets}

So....when these investment banks and hedge funds get to the point where they're really in trouble, one of the first things they do is liquidate their futures contracts in order to raise cash. That's why you're seeing the pullback with regard to oil, precious metals, lumber and various other commodities.

Now.....as to what's with this country's economy :

Very simple - We've transitioned from a savings-based production economy to one fueled by completely financed consumer spending and outsourced production.

You mentioned that your parents at least partially grew up in the 1929-32 downturn period? Ask them how much shit they financed? I'd bet a nickel against a donut that it was hardly anything. When they wanted a newer car or television, they stashed money from each paycheck in a cubby hole until they had enough to completely purchase the item they wanted outright.

That's the problem, Mia...... We gota lose all the ''usury'' and get back to producing things of value and saving and investing the fruits of that production.

- R

< Message edited by TheUtopian -- 9/18/2008 1:08:15 AM >

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Post #: 8

RE: Worldwide Stock Slide! - 9/18/2008 2:43:44 AM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline

As the old adage goes, "Capitalism will eat itself".

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Post #: 9

RE: Worldwide Stock Slide! - 9/18/2008 3:42:29 AM

sirsholly

Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
Status: offline

fr

i am curious...if you are an investor are you riding this out or did you bail?

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Post #: 10

RE: Worldwide Stock Slide! - 9/18/2008 4:12:18 AM

kiyari

Posts: 631
Status: offline

What with the dominoes falling in the financial arena... add 'derivatives' to the mix.

Oh, and oil going off the 'dollar standard', cuts dollars loose from their primary support.

Love that quote: "Hang on, it's going to be a bumpy ride" [All About Eve]

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Post #: 11

RE: Worldwide Stock Slide! - 9/18/2008 4:14:43 AM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline

easy.

we bought bombs. not groceries.

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Post #: 12

RE: Worldwide Stock Slide! - 9/18/2008 5:08:52 AM

MzMia

Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheUtopian

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

MzMia does not pretend to be an expert or any type of authority
on the economy.

But the worldwide stock market seems to be going downhill fast.
Stocks are sliding in the U.S.A., Japan, Russia, what the hell is going on?

Stock are sliding all over the place, what is happening?
Where is President Bush? Has anyone seen him?
Is he on vacation?

Great reply as usual Utopian!

Mia.....

Before I get started, I wanna point something very important out that's been erroneously stated :

The reason why you are seeing the per barrel price for oil drop on the world market has nothing at all do with supply and demand and everything to do with rank futures speculation. I totally agree with this, we have
been hearing for a long time about how speculation has been fueling this fire.

All of the investment banks and hedge funds are either heavily weighted down by what's known as ''off balance sheet '' liabilities in the form of paper bet against paper bet against even more paper, leveraged at margins approaching 25 to 1 or, they're completely bankrupt like Lehman Brothers.{Their liabilities far outweigh their assets}

So....when these investment banks and hedge funds get to the point where they're really in trouble, one of the first things they do is liquidate their futures contracts in order to raise cash. That's why you're seeing the pullback with regard to oil, precious metals, lumber and various other commodities.

Now.....as to what's with this country's economy :

Very simple - We've transitioned from a savings-based production economy to one fueled by completely financed consumer spending and outsourced production.

I agree 100% with this, we have basically outsourced most of the jobs and sold the USA down the river.

You mentioned that your parents at least partially grew up in the 1929-32 downturn period? Ask them how much shit they financed? I'd bet a nickel against a donut that it was hardly anything. When they wanted a newer car or television, they stashed money from each paycheck in a cubby hole until they had enough to completely purchase the item they wanted outright.

No they are not that old! LOL They were born in the mid 30's. I mention them, BECAUSE when you are born in the middle of a DEPRESSION, it often effects you for the rest of your life. Life did not magically get better for a lot of people {especially Black people} when the Depression ended.
They were both good at NOT getting into debt, NOT buying on credit, saving money and making things last.
I am very proud of the example they set for me, and trying to live up to their thrifty ways.

That's the problem, Mia...... We gota lose all the ''usury'' and get back to producing things of value and saving and investing the fruits of that production.

- R

< Message edited by MzMia -- 9/18/2008 5:09:33 AM >

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to TheUtopian)

Post #: 13

RE: Worldwide Stock Slide! - 9/18/2008 5:13:22 AM

MzMia

Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline

I agree with your wonderful post DomKen.
So many great thinkers around here.
From many indicators, the other shoe has not dropped yet.

We all know that the stock market will evenutally go up.
Many are just wondering how low will it go.
Again, I agree with have not seen the end of this, by a long shot.

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 14

RE: Worldwide Stock Slide! - 9/18/2008 5:13:46 AM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

Where is President Bush? Has anyone seen him?
Is he on vacation?

Good question, Mia, I was wondering the very same thing. I have a feeling he's cowarding away somewhere warm and toasty: the man is obviously even more of a spineless swine than I thought. He will go down in history as 'Mr Absent President', the chicken-blooded leader who pretended he wasn't there when the shit truly hit the fan.

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Post #: 15

RE: Worldwide Stock Slide! - 9/18/2008 8:29:19 AM

faerytattoodgirl

Posts: 5824
Status: offline

its the old saying...the rich getting richer...the poor getting poorer....

students cant even get loans now. companies have stopped giving them out.

i wonder if that was why that clown in buffalo was terrorizing students with a machete....he didnt get his loan?

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RE: Worldwide Stock Slide! - 9/18/2008 8:33:11 AM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

Finally, Bush speaks. He just addressed the media (not taking questions, mind you): he's going to keep a close eye on the events. That's all: it took him under two minutes to come up with that.

Good luck to everyone

.

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Post #: 17

RE: Worldwide Stock Slide! - 9/18/2008 8:41:32 AM

bipolarber

Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline

Well, gosh, I just feel so much better, knowing that Big Brother Bush is keeping an eye on things for us. How about putting the regulations back in place? How about drafting some new ones for the derivatives market? No, he'll handle it the only way he knows how: throw our money at it until the drain that everything is going down stops up... he hopes.

So here's my question: They just took over Fannie and Freddie, and just promised $85 billion in loans to AIG... and there will be more to come. Now, the Iraq War has cost the US taxpayer $500+ billion already, doubling the national debt even before all this started, using money we had to borrow, in large part, from China. So where is Bush and his minions getting this money, since the treasury is already empty? Just how over-leverdged will Bush leave us all on the hook for?

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Post #: 18

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