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RE: Biden on paying higher taxes "It's time to be ... - 9/18/2008 2:22:07 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

Hmmm.... So how do you explain folks that have become wealthy from the bottom tiers?  It must be some sort of government program that helped them out.

I guess it would be best if I just stop trying to move up the economic ladder.  It seems I will be better rewarded for being stagnant or for going backwards...

What percentage of that bottom 50% actually pay taxes again?

Ok, you asked...

The bottom 50% do not make enough to pay that much in taxes. If you wish to have balanced budget and do want to spend $3+ TRILLION a year on wars and security not to mention farm subsidies, methanol subsidies (sic) buy votes with a prescription benefit bestow tax credits on your biggest contributers...than you have to go where the money is...the top 10 or 15% of earners almost all of which are the corporate heavies and the investor class.

One can still save and invest in this country and 'make it' but it is becoming much harder. There is a chapter in business school that explains what is called market barriers. This in a nutshell is the expertise needed to enter a market but also capital requirements. Those capital requirements are higher and higher all the time so we have fewer and fewer new markets and fewer new hires and economic expansion with fewer yet high paying jobs to tax which shouldn't be taxed at all anyway.

If you look at economic history since WWII, expansion of the marketplace to a very large degree has been as a result of something developed by govt. assistance. While in the past...a single invention could create an entire market not nearly so much anymore. Most not all...of our advancements come from govt. DoD, NIH, NASA and other research etc. Then put into the marketplace.

So early at-risk capitol finds now only the occasssional Yahoo and Google which really weren't new tecnological breakthroughs but were piggy-backed onto the Internet...and creates few jobs and delivers little tax revenue. And when the investors cashed out...they paid 15% capital gains. Now those that stuck with these for years I can see a 'lowering' rate...but in ONE year it's called investment when it is really mere speculation.

The wealthy in this country own 85% of the wealth and pay about 40% of the taxes and the coporate share of federal revenue has been going down ever since WWII and McCapital wants to lower their share even more. But I am an independant free-market original conservative and believe their should be NO income tax except for a top rate of 15 to 20% and because we have $9 TRILLION in debt. Also, no corporate tax but instead a gross receipts tax on businesses and a national sales tax on purchases. This way we tax consumption and not production.

Whoever even ties that regime...would be murdered if necessary and not by some crazed Hinckley but more likely a corporate hirling. Just because someone wins the lottery doesn't mean we all will.

(in reply to Thadius)
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RE: Biden on paying higher taxes "It's time to be ... - 9/18/2008 2:25:54 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

What do you think people in Ohio, Colorado, Nevada, and Pennsylvania are going to care more about?

Palin saying you can see Russia from Alaska or Biden admitting their taxes are going to go up?


Did you actually read the link?

Unless you make more than $250k/yr your taxes are NOT going up.

As the article stated, 4 of 5 taxpayers will receive cuts.


What will their tax rates be under these "cuts"?  Will their weekly or biweekly taxes withheld be lower, higher, or the same?




Yes, we've argued this before and I know where you're going with it.  I don't think, as you seem to, that there are so many people in such dire need that they will trade more cash in their hand each week than a larger refund and overall tax savings at the end of the year.  I am not disputing that there are, only that most people are not desperately living from paycheck to paycheck.

(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Biden on paying higher taxes "It's time to be ... - 9/18/2008 2:35:54 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

What do you think people in Ohio, Colorado, Nevada, and Pennsylvania are going to care more about?

Palin saying you can see Russia from Alaska or Biden admitting their taxes are going to go up?


Did you actually read the link?

Unless you make more than $250k/yr your taxes are NOT going up.

As the article stated, 4 of 5 taxpayers will receive cuts.


You haven't been listening to McCapital $5 million a year is middle-class. That makes our mere $250,000 practically poverty level income. So I just can't afford another 2% or $5,000 in taxes...nope surely couldn't. But hey...still going to Bimini this year.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 9/18/2008 2:38:47 PM >

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RE: Biden on paying higher taxes "It's time to be ... - 9/18/2008 2:38:30 PM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

I am guessing the the hard working people of Ohio, Colorado, Nevada, and Pennsylvania are worried about tax hikes of course. Seeing as they are... what did you call them mike.... "simple minded good ol boys"???
FDD please show me where I did that.In a box quote please ,simply by making that claim,you have shown truth means nothing to you...so please prove your point and pull my quote

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to FatDomDaddy)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Biden on paying higher taxes "It's time to be ... - 9/18/2008 2:41:01 PM   
Thadius


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quote:


The wealthy in this country own 85% of the wealth and pay about 40% of the taxes and the coporate share of federal revenue has been going down ever since WWII and McCapital wants to lower their share even more. But I am an independant free-market original conservative and believe their should be NO income tax except for a top rate of 15 to 20% and because we have $9 TRILLION in debt. Also, no corporate tax but instead a gross receipts tax on businesses and a national sales tax on purchases. This way we tax consumption and not production.



Now this sort of proposal with a few modifications that I can get behind (I am not sure gross receipts should be the baseline).  Also noting that government spending must be put in some sort of harness that will restrict the balooning deficits.

See that was quite simple.

Edited to take out a stray "is one" that made absolutely no sense.

< Message edited by Thadius -- 9/18/2008 2:48:41 PM >

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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RE: Biden on paying higher taxes "It's time to be ... - 9/18/2008 2:47:29 PM   
Thadius


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quote:


Yes, we've argued this before and I know where you're going with it.  I don't think, as you seem to, that there are so many people in such dire need that they will trade more cash in their hand each week than a larger refund and overall tax savings at the end of the year.  I am not disputing that there are, only that most people are not desperately living from paycheck to paycheck.


1. Isn't that exactly who Obama is claiming to want to help... those living paycheck to paychech?

2. Where is the money coming from for this increased spending disguised as tax cuts?

3. Perhaps, my observations are skewed a bit by living in Michigan, but I know plenty of folks that would prefer having more of their own money in their pockets NOW.  I can only assume with the various rising costs of living this would be a common theme around the country.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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RE: Biden on paying higher taxes "It's time to be ... - 9/18/2008 3:00:04 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

quote:


Yes, we've argued this before and I know where you're going with it.  I don't think, as you seem to, that there are so many people in such dire need that they will trade more cash in their hand each week than a larger refund and overall tax savings at the end of the year.  I am not disputing that there are, only that most people are not desperately living from paycheck to paycheck.


1. Isn't that exactly who Obama is claiming to want to help... those living paycheck to paychech?

2. Where is the money coming from for this increased spending disguised as tax cuts?

3. Perhaps, my observations are skewed a bit by living in Michigan, but I know plenty of folks that would prefer having more of their own money in their pockets NOW.  I can only assume with the various rising costs of living this would be a common theme around the country.


Look we argued this to stalemate before and I really don't want to rehash it.  You haven't proved that they would in fact have more withheld under Obama's plan.  Even if true, if I can have an extra $5 withheld every week over the course of a year in exchange for a $1000 refund at the end of the year I think the math speaks for itself.  I don't think that most people are that desperate financially or that short-sighted that they wouldn't choose the latter.

(in reply to Thadius)
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RE: Biden on paying higher taxes "It's time to be ... - 9/18/2008 3:14:37 PM   
Thadius


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quote:

Look we argued this to stalemate before and I really don't want to rehash it.  You haven't proved that they would in fact have more withheld under Obama's plan.  Even if true, if I can have an extra $5 withheld every week over the course of a year in exchange for a $1000 refund at the end of the year I think the math speaks for itself.  I don't think that most people are that desperate financially or that short-sighted that they wouldn't choose the latter.


I am arguing that they won't have any less withheld under Obama's plan.  If we are to compare the 2 major party candidates plans, then yes there would be more withheld under Obama's plan than that of McCain's.

Shortsighted?  Who or what is going to pay for the additional checks being written by the government?  Oh yeah, that magic credit card.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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RE: Biden on paying higher taxes "It's time to be ... - 9/18/2008 3:18:50 PM   
subtee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

[Look we argued this to stalemate before and I really don't want to rehash it.  You haven't proved that they would in fact have more withheld under Obama's plan.  Even if true, if I can have an extra $5 withheld every week over the course of a year in exchange for a $1000 refund at the end of the year I think the math speaks for itself.  I don't think that most people are that desperate financially or that short-sighted that they wouldn't choose the latter.


Right on, Rule. It was boring the first time.
Anyone care to comment on the McCain Spain flap?

_____________________________

Don't believe everything you think...

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Biden on paying higher taxes "It's time to be ... - 9/18/2008 3:24:34 PM   
hoodie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

What do you think people in Ohio, Colorado, Nevada, and Pennsylvania are going to care more about?

Palin saying you can see Russia from Alaska or Biden admitting their taxes are going to go up?
Well hopefully they will care more about the future of this country and decide we have had enough of simpletons in the White House.Thats the way I'm going....


And that is what?  Going for the future of the country isn't going to put food on their table today.  It isn't going to get the mortgage paid today.

Do you honestly believe that if the crisis is as bad as they're saying, these people are going to say around the dinner table....

Gee honey, I know we don't have alot of buying power.  Our food bill has almost doubled in the last year.  The mortgage payment is getting rougher to make each month.  Little Janey needs braces to correct her overbite...but you know, our country needs us.  Let's offer to pay more taxes this November.  We don't need to eat but once a day, right?  And the mortgage...well who needs a house, right? And Janey.... does she really need to have straight teeth?  Nahhh.... our country is more important now.

_____________________________

bared on Your tomb, I'm a prayer for Your loneliness. And would You ever soon come above unto me. For once upon a time from the binds of Your holiness, I could always find the right slot for Your sacred key.

Nymphetamine - Cradle of Filth

(in reply to slvemike4u)
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RE: Biden on paying higher taxes "It's time to be ... - 9/18/2008 3:40:02 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

I am guessing the the hard working people of Ohio, Colorado, Nevada, and Pennsylvania are worried about tax hikes of course. Seeing as they are... what did you call them mike.... "simple minded good ol boys"???
FDD please show me where I did that.In a box quote please ,simply by making that claim,you have shown truth means nothing to you...so please prove your point and pull my quote


http://www.collarchat.com/m_2144131/tm.htm

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Please explain to me how "what the Billy-Joe-Jim-Bobs say to each other" is a perfect example of liberal elitism.BTW haven't we had enough of simple minded good old boys for the last 8 years.


< Message edited by FatDomDaddy -- 9/18/2008 3:41:35 PM >

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Biden on paying higher taxes "It's time to be ... - 9/18/2008 3:43:59 PM   
bipolarber


Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline 		Which is exactly why the Obama tax plan is so appealing... those of us in the majority, (who earn far, far, far below $250,000 a year) get some of our money back, and instead the folks at the tippy top (who are vacationing in, say, Bimini, end up having to cut back every so slightly, to contribute their fair share to a system that allowed them to be filthy stinking rich to the point that the rules (apparently) no longer apply to them. CEO's who push companies into bankruptcy, yet walk away with $250 million in a golden parachute...? They'd be first on my list.

Republicans keep talking about how democrats are pushing for the "redistribution of wealth" in this country. Well, aren't they, the republicans, guilty of the same? Only they are pushing the wealth unfairly toward the top, while squeezing every last dime out of the majority of the population to benefit the very few.

When it comes to the folks at the top, I say, "Tax 'em till they bleed out their ass!"


(in reply to hoodie)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Biden on paying higher taxes "It's time to be ... - 9/18/2008 3:44:53 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hoodie

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

What do you think people in Ohio, Colorado, Nevada, and Pennsylvania are going to care more about?

Palin saying you can see Russia from Alaska or Biden admitting their taxes are going to go up?
Well hopefully they will care more about the future of this country and decide we have had enough of simpletons in the White House.Thats the way I'm going....


And that is what?  Going for the future of the country isn't going to put food on their table today.  It isn't going to get the mortgage paid today.

Do you honestly believe that if the crisis is as bad as they're saying, these people are going to say around the dinner table....

Gee honey, I know we don't have alot of buying power.  Our food bill has almost doubled in the last year.  The mortgage payment is getting rougher to make each month.  Little Janey needs braces to correct her overbite...but you know, our country needs us.  Let's offer to pay more taxes this November.  We don't need to eat but once a day, right?  And the mortgage...well who needs a house, right? And Janey.... does she really need to have straight teeth?  Nahhh.... our country is more important now.
Well Hoodie that was all cute and all that,but while your straightening little Janey's teeth would you mind explaining to her how we have mortgaged her future.Now in reality you know I wasn't suggesting an offset of food and lodging in exchange for the future of the country.But you went all cute and cuddly on me didn't you....well keep voting for the simpletons and the ones that tell you what you want to hear.You know the drill,baby drill crowd ,and get ready to have that conversation with little Janey about her teeth ,it will be the least of your problems!

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to hoodie)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Biden on paying higher taxes "It's time to be ... - 9/18/2008 4:01:56 PM   
hoodie


Posts: 108
Joined: 6/30/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: hoodie

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

What do you think people in Ohio, Colorado, Nevada, and Pennsylvania are going to care more about?

Palin saying you can see Russia from Alaska or Biden admitting their taxes are going to go up?
Well hopefully they will care more about the future of this country and decide we have had enough of simpletons in the White House.Thats the way I'm going....


And that is what?  Going for the future of the country isn't going to put food on their table today.  It isn't going to get the mortgage paid today.

Do you honestly believe that if the crisis is as bad as they're saying, these people are going to say around the dinner table....

Gee honey, I know we don't have alot of buying power.  Our food bill has almost doubled in the last year.  The mortgage payment is getting rougher to make each month.  Little Janey needs braces to correct her overbite...but you know, our country needs us.  Let's offer to pay more taxes this November.  We don't need to eat but once a day, right?  And the mortgage...well who needs a house, right? And Janey.... does she really need to have straight teeth?  Nahhh.... our country is more important now.

Well Hoodie that was all cute and all that,but while your straightening little Janey's teeth would you mind explaining to her how we have mortgaged her future.Now in reality you know I wasn't suggesting an offset of food and lodging in exchange for the future of the country.But you went all cute and cuddly on me didn't you....well keep voting for the simpletons and the ones that tell you what you want to hear.You know the drill,baby drill crowd ,and get ready to have that conversation with little Janey about her teeth ,it will be the least of your problems!


No actually I was being sarcastic.  Because the reality is that NONE of these simpletons in Washington, Democratic and Republican alike are going to feel the hit from higher taxes.  Not McCain, not Obama, Not Bush...not ANY of them.

You keep making assumptions, while you're at it.  I may be a Republican, but I'll be DAMNED if my vote is going to McCain OR Obama.  Period.  You think you have everyone figured out here.  Well answer me this?

Will Obama have to pull his children out of their plush private school?  Will he have to take a second mortgage on his house to pay for college?  Will he have to worry about HIS pension being lost in the market?  Will he have to worry about how he's going to pay for his arugala?  The answer to all of the above is...No.

It's easy for him to talk about raisng taxes on people.  It's easy for McCain to talk about raising taxes on people.  But both of them can afford it. 

They'll never want for health insurance.  They've got it for life.  They'll never want for a pension.  We'll pay for it.  They will never have to send their kids to failing public schools.  They can afford the best private schools money can buy.  They can afford 1.2 million dollar homes.  They can afford to buy the best vehicles.  Hell they can afford most everything that most of us suckers dream about.

So don't talk to me about "mortgaged futures".  There isn't a politician in Washington who hasnt played some role in this.  McCain AND Obama AND Biden are guilty. 

So while you're getting all "whimsical" remember you're voting for people that have helped this mess come to fruition.

_____________________________

bared on Your tomb, I'm a prayer for Your loneliness. And would You ever soon come above unto me. For once upon a time from the binds of Your holiness, I could always find the right slot for Your sacred key.

Nymphetamine - Cradle of Filth

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Biden on paying higher taxes "It's time to be ... - 9/18/2008 4:09:15 PM   
slvemike4u


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From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

I am guessing the the hard working people of Ohio, Colorado, Nevada, and Pennsylvania are worried about tax hikes of course. Seeing as they are... what did you call them mike.... "simple minded good ol boys"???
FDD please show me where I did that.In a box quote please ,simply by making that claim,you have shown truth means nothing to you...so please prove your point and pull my quote


http://www.collarchat.com/m_2144131/tm.htm

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Please explain to me how "what the Billy-Joe-Jim-Bobs say to each other" is a perfect example of liberal elitism.BTW haven't we had enough of simple minded good old boys for the last 8 years.

So in the above quote you are reading simple minded good old boys as the voters of Ohio,Colorado,Nevada and Pennsylvania....Funny I had one simple minded good old boy in mind when I typed that ,but you knew that FDD ,surely your not that simple minded that you missed the referance to 8 years....say it ain't so!!

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to FatDomDaddy)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Biden on paying higher taxes "It's time to be ... - 9/18/2008 4:12:27 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		DomDaddy, of course the Dems want to raise everyone's taxes, how can they give away $845 BILLION "more" of our Taxdollars to "foreign countries" if they don't raise taxes?
Abadabba is said to have a $1.4 TRILLION tax increase "in his back pocket."

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to FatDomDaddy)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Biden on paying higher taxes "It's time to be ... - 9/18/2008 4:17:07 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Hoodie the point is their is a choice here and to me it is a simple one,more of the same or a move towards a saner future...and if that means a tax rate for the rich....fuck em,they can afford it.As long as we are talking about whimsical dear lady lets try to remember who conducted the teary eyed little drama play about Janeys teeth...wasn't me was it..so don't get yourself too upset about who I believe I have figured out or not.I will try to stay on point and above board as long as we can keep the drama plays to a minimum.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Biden on paying higher taxes "It's time to be ... - 9/18/2008 4:22:01 PM   
hoodie


Posts: 108
Joined: 6/30/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Hoodie the point is their is a choice here and to me it is a simple one,more of the same or a move towards a saner future...and if that means a tax rate for the rich....fuck em,they can afford it.As long as we are talking about whimsical dear lady lets try to remember who conducted the teary eyed little drama play about Janeys teeth...wasn't me was it..so don't get yourself too upset about who I believe I have figured out or not.I will try to stay on point and above board as long as we can keep the drama plays to a minimum.


Oh so apparently snide comments are allowed, but sarcasm isn't.

My illustration was to your.... *rescue the future* or some nonsense.

I've seen you ridicule and get "dramatic" with anyone who disagrees with you.  Obama isn't going to "rescue the future" with his plan.  He's buying votes.  Period.

He and Biden and McCain are responsible for this mess, and you have the audacity to paint anyone who stands differently from you as part of the Drill baby drill crowd who like being told what they want to hear?

And you're attitude of "fuck em" says to me that you have a problem with wealth being had by other people.  How do you think they made their wealth?  LAUGHS..... because many of the loopholes open to business... are also open to who... oh yeah.. Congressman.

So keep pretending that Obama is going to help this country.  When the free money starts flying out the door, and the debt increases.... I guess it'll be my turn to label anyone who supported him a "simpleton", eh?

_____________________________

bared on Your tomb, I'm a prayer for Your loneliness. And would You ever soon come above unto me. For once upon a time from the binds of Your holiness, I could always find the right slot for Your sacred key.

Nymphetamine - Cradle of Filth

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Biden on paying higher taxes "It's time to be ... - 9/18/2008 4:24:06 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		Does anybody actually believe that corporations are going to be the folks paying these tax increases?  It is a fantasy to believe they will.  The cost will be passed on to the consumers.  If corporate taxes go up 2% the price of they charge for goods will go up 3%, and so on. 

Just something to think about.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Biden on paying higher taxes "It's time to be ... - 9/18/2008 4:29:49 PM   
hoodie


Posts: 108
Joined: 6/30/2008
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quote:

Does anybody actually believe that corporations are going to be the folks paying these tax increases? It is a fantasy to believe they will. The cost will be passed on to the consumers. If corporate taxes go up 2% the price of they charge for goods will go up 3%, and so on.

Just something to think about.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

Does anybody actually believe that corporations are going to be the folks paying these tax increases?  It is a fantasy to believe they will.  The cost will be passed on to the consumers.  If corporate taxes go up 2% the price of they charge for goods will go up 3%, and so on. 

Just something to think about.


I've thought about that often.  The tax increases they get, we'll also get.  Which is why I don't believe it will solve the problem, at all.

Tax the wealthy..but increase spending?  Is he serious?   

_____________________________

bared on Your tomb, I'm a prayer for Your loneliness. And would You ever soon come above unto me. For once upon a time from the binds of Your holiness, I could always find the right slot for Your sacred key.

Nymphetamine - Cradle of Filth

(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 40
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