RE: Just die already! (Full Version)

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scifi1133 -> RE: Just die already! (9/19/2008 4:15:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mitchmash07

Heh, that reminds of that movie, "Logan's Run". What was considered old age,? Thirty or thirty-three?

Renew! Renew!

Having had an elderly grandmother with senile dementia, I certainly didn't want her to suffer. But, I didn't want to she her "put down" either. However, I do think there are certain individuals in the world that have most definitely out lived their usefulness. A certain "bearded man" automatically comes to mind....


It was 30. Heck of a good movie to. LOL




Bethnai -> RE: Just die already! (9/19/2008 6:43:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: auroraborealis

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2983652/Baroness-Warnock-Dementia-sufferers-may-have-a-duty-to-die.html


I am in awe of the absoulte wrongness of this Baroness Warnock. But then of course.. she has tons of cash.. so she would never be a burden on the system.. so she would be safe.. however... other poor slobs just need to die already.

Hmm I wonder if some old realitive of hers held on long enough to become troublesome to her. Prob. some estate matters held up.

As some of you know I am going for my degree in Psychology. I find this sort of thought freightening. Too old, too sick. Lets put you out of *our* misery. Doesnt matter if you are in pain or not.. you are simply inconvient.

Hell in this day and age show me a convient person.

Gwyn


I did not get from that article that she advocated all *should*. However, the criteria should be larger to qualify. 
It should be, if that is what you want to do. If someone is astute enough to realize that the life that you have left is not going to be quality and you are not going to be in control then this one last act that you can control will allow you to leave with dignity.




gina0055 -> RE: Just die already! (9/19/2008 7:35:11 AM)

Oregon has a "right to die" law but it is extremely detailed. They had to have been given six months to live, and have a doctor who is willing to supply the cocktail.  They must go through psychological counseling.  The person who is terminal must give themselves the cocktail, no one is allowed to physically assist them.

From the Christian Science Monitor:

"Relatively few people opt to end their own lives by taking a doctor-prescribed drug, according to recently-released figures for 2006: 46 deaths last year, 292 overall since the law went into effect – about one-tenth of 1 percent of those diagnosed with terminal illnesses in Oregon.
Instead, palliative and hospice care have increased markedly here because the law helped raise awareness about caring for terminally ill patients. As a result, Oregon ranks among the best in the nation in end-of-life care. This means more people are looked after at home with the emotional and spiritual support of their families rather than spending their last days in a hospital. "

I was active in trying to get a similar law passed in California because a family there that I was very close to, assisted in ending the life of their terminally ill mother.  All the people involved took incredible risks to handle the mother's wishes to not die a painful, lingering death.  Makes sense to me to not have to suffer like that, for everyone involved.

My brother has joked that he is going to have a jar of sleeping pills on his kitchen shelf with a note that says "if you don't know what these are for, take 30."  Not a bad idea.

Uh, "certain bearded man?" 
Santa Claus?  [sm=whoa.gif]






MadAxeman -> RE: Just die already! (9/19/2008 9:08:14 AM)

Regarding Baroness Warnock. She is a medical ethics expert and policy adviser. Her husband had an 'assisted death' from a GP (General Practioner, their doctor) through morphine. She was also advocating that parents pay for life support for premature babies not expected to live a healthy life (healthcare here is supposed to be free). These remarks are several years old and the upshot was plenty of discussion as seen on this thread, no change in the law regarding suicide, but the acceptance of some legal right to a 'living will'. In reality, this amounts to a demand to 'not resuscitate' when stroke, brain damage to a certain level etc occurs. Some doctors ignore this, in the same way that some would have helped even though it was illegal. It is done in the shadows.
In the Europe, terminal patients travelling to Holland for assisted death is becoming common enough for clinics and hotels to be dedicated to it.
I had to watch my father die slowly in ICU. Even barely conscious, he would writhe in pain. He was strong enough to fight for his life and one would not have denied him that. After he passed we were told he only ever had about a 5% chance from the first day he went into ICU. Even now, I am unsure what would have been the right course. If he was still fighting, surely it was his right to battle on.
For myself, I would want the machines turned off. Allowing my family to see me slowly halve in weight and to be in such pain (disregarding the personal trauma) is a legacy I would not want to leave for them to deal with.




bipolarber -> RE: Just die already! (9/19/2008 11:10:47 AM)

Having lost several relatives to cancer, and seeing several others be reduced to vegetables by late stages of age induced trauma, I can see a need for having some kind of choice in this matter. If "I" were terminal, and nothing to look forward to but months of excrutiating pain, I'd like to have the choice of taking a pill. (I guess I'm one of the few people who think Dr. Kivorkian is actually correct.)

The ethics are simple, and connected to my feelings about abortion as well. Human beings should have the choice about what happens to their bodies. No matter if it's the choice about if they are ready to start and support a new life, decorate it as they wish, have sex in their own preferred manner,  or bring their own life to a relatively peaceful, dignified end. If we don't have that right, then we are nothing more than someone else's property.

Sure, there need to be rules and regs out there. I'm not advocating that we all have the right to off ourselves (or a comatose relative) without some rigid oversight...

But it just seems cruel to me that we can do this for "Rover", but not for each other...




velvetears -> RE: Just die already! (9/19/2008 11:46:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach

 I feel that assisted death, as well as suicide, should be made legal.  If a person truely doesn't want to stick around, they are Going to find a way to remove themselves permanently from the equation.  What business do Any of the rest of us have in interfering with that decision making process?
 
Sometimes - death is a considerably greater act of Mercy than extending a life - both to the person suffering, and to those around them.  Those who are no longer "there" mentally - you can't Grieve, because they aren't Dead.  But Grieving is exactly what you often feel you Should do, because what made them "them" is already dead and gone.  I've watched my dad for the past 2 years, knowing that it wasn't "time" yet to grieve, because his body still tenuously clings to the semblance of life - yet also knowing that what made him Dad died 2 years ago when his stroke happened.  He is nearly bancrupt, and I'm well on the way there, just paying for his necessary care. 
 
Those who've suffered extended periods of physical agony, praying to die, hoping to die, wishing they could just get it over with and die - hell, sometimes Begging to die just so it's finally Over - it's well beyond inhumane, cruel, or sadistic to Force them not to actively seek death as a means of Release.  It is it's own unique - and unfortunately Morally Sanctioned - form of torture, both physical and mental.

No, I don't think Lady Warnock is off track.  I think the interfering, falsely moralistic, "life is sacred even if it's really only Existing" crap is off track.


No one wants to see their loved ones suffer.  my dad is also a stroke victim who is now unable to walk, talk (very little), control his bodily functions, swallow (liquids have to be thickened and food has to be in very small pieces.  He is very depressed and in the last few years i have seen him cry at the slightest occurance that would bring out any emotion in him.  Never in my life had i ever seen my dad as an emotional man, so to see him always in tears breaks my heart. He is a shell of who he was and i pray everyday he finds release from his flesh and bone prison. No one should be forced to endure this kind of life. 

i understand completely how you feel, i too feel like i am grieving, yet he is not passed on, yet he is not "here" anymore either.  i don't see him as often as i should but i find it brings up very sad past memories of when i took care of my dying mother.  With her, in the end, the doctor basically said he would up the dose of morphine and she would pass.  i had no problem at all with this but is this assisted suicide under the table so to speak?  i was taking care of her for the longest while and used to give her her morphine, i had thoughts that tear me up in guilt when i think of what i wanted and almost did.  No one should ever be put in that position, the medical field needs to understand if they cannot create quality forget extending peoples lives.  my dad had a defibrillator/pacemaker placed in his heart 4 years ago, had he not gotten this device he would have died years ago. How i wish he had not gotten this done, but hindsight is always 20/20 and how could we all have known he would suffer such debilitating strokes. 




slaveboyforyou -> RE: Just die already! (9/19/2008 11:51:58 AM)

Just for the record; I don't care if I am drooling on myself, talking to walls, and pissing my pants......I want to live. 




celticlord2112 -> RE: Just die already! (9/19/2008 12:01:25 PM)

The joys of socialized healthcare. The individual gets as much care as "society" deems appropriate, after which the individual is expected to go gently into that good night.




philosophy -> RE: Just die already! (9/19/2008 1:27:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

The joys of socialized healthcare. The individual gets as much care as "society" deems appropriate, after which the individual is expected to go gently into that good night.


...as opposed to the joys of pay-as-you-go health care.......the individual gets as much health care as they can afford, and if they can't afford it they too are expected to go gently into that good night.




cjan -> RE: Just die already! (9/19/2008 3:57:32 PM)

And I thought this thread was gonna be about Larry King. Get in the box, Larry.




lronitulstahp -> RE: Just die already! (9/19/2008 3:59:50 PM)

Yay!!!! It's CJ!!!!!!!!!!!  Hi Pimp Daddy.....oh and something pertinenet about the thread, or something.....*reads thread title*

Are we talking about Blue Man Group????




celticlord2112 -> RE: Just die already! (9/19/2008 4:01:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

The joys of socialized healthcare. The individual gets as much care as "society" deems appropriate, after which the individual is expected to go gently into that good night.


...as opposed to the joys of pay-as-you-go health care.......the individual gets as much health care as they can afford, and if they can't afford it they too are expected to go gently into that good night.

Care to point out an American medical ethics "expert" touting this line?

I don't know of anyone in the US arguing that folks have a "duty" to die.




philosophy -> RE: Just die already! (9/19/2008 5:42:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112


quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

The joys of socialized healthcare. The individual gets as much care as "society" deems appropriate, after which the individual is expected to go gently into that good night.


...as opposed to the joys of pay-as-you-go health care.......the individual gets as much health care as they can afford, and if they can't afford it they too are expected to go gently into that good night.

Care to point out an American medical ethics "expert" touting this line?

I don't know of anyone in the US arguing that folks have a "duty" to die.


...they don't have to.....people can't pay, they die.....all they've got in the UK is one member of the House of Lords saying it........the fact that there is a debate about in the UK as opposed to the de facto situation in the States says something else doesn't it?




Raechard -> RE: Just die already! (9/19/2008 5:51:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: auroraborealis
Hmm I wonder if some old realitive of hers held on long enough to become troublesome to her. Prob. some estate matters held up.


Them types are cold even to their own family members, no inch given.

Reminds me of that film ‘independence day’ where the aliens says through the hijacked voice box of the man squished up against the glass, "I want you to die!"




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