RE: Understanding why subs do flake

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MsStarlett -> RE: Understanding why subs do flake (9/22/2008 5:10:10 AM)
Here's the brand of Flakey that makes me want to beat someone.... A local sub starts writing to me. He's all eager to meet. I tell him that I'm really busy this time of year and can't get away. He continues to beg and push for a face to face. I tell him that I'm going to a birthday party at a popular local pub on Saturday night. He's a bit skittish about approaching me in public surrounded by my friends. I get that. He pushes for a few minutes at a local book store earlier in the afternoon. I tell him I'm busy but I'll try to drop by. HE sets the time and place. I reluctantly decide to give the guy a chance and drive 10 minutes out of my way to hang out in the Computer/Business section of this store in my work clothes before going to clean out a storage unit. He's not there. I figure either he chickened out or he doesn't want to deal with the reality that I don't look like that fantasy red-hot bomb shell 24/7... especially not when I've got a list of dirty jobs that need to be done. He didn't show up at the Pub that night when I was all dressed up and looking cute either. He sends me a note on Sunday apologizing that he couldn't make it and wants me to give him a 2nd chance. I tell him "No Way! I took time out of MY hectic schedule to meet you at a place of YOUR choice at YOUR time and then YOU didn't bother to show up? You blew it." Then he starts with the "I'll accept any punishment you want to give me." shrug Yeah. His punishment is that I will never, ever believe that he's for real or set up another time to meet with him.

LadyLupineNYC -> RE: Understanding why subs do flake (9/22/2008 5:32:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel snipHe admitted that meeting me wasn't anything like he expected/fantisized it would be. I'm just a person, like everyone else. But because it didn't meet his "fantasy" he was terrified, not having any idea what to expect. snip *Jewel* When my boy and I 1st started talking he was still stationed in Iraq, we talked for hours via chat, on the phone when his schedule allowed (and the phones were working) etc. He had never had such extensive contact with a Domme before despite trying for so long. This is a guy who had never, in all his young life, even had a vanilla sex fantasy before. After about two months or so, he starts flaking. Yes, this is him in a war zone and with us having no in-person contact, so I was quite understanding. He felt that I 'wasn't what he was looking for', he tried to put it politely, but he essentially was envisioning Maxim girls in fetish heels. Not me. Fast forward 10 months and he signs up for CM and I see his profile. Now he is back home in the States and had some time to think. Apparently, I had never left his mind, he never stopped feeling horrible, couldn't quite bring himself to contact me all that time figuring that I would never want to talk with him again. Within 3 weeks he was on a plane to NYC to meet and we never looked back (he has since moved in with very happy results). The point- while he now sees the unrealistic expectations he had as just being that, at the time it was a mental block for him. The idea that a 'Mistress' would also be a caring person, someone for whom love might even be in the equation would have never occurred to him. On my part, I gave him a 'second chance', something quite out of character for me. I did it because I saw his heart, I knew that he was struggling with his 'orientation'. IT was the best choice I ever made. Boys 'flake'. So do woman. This can seem to be a very forgien world to those looking in from the outside. Here we are, comfortable, confident, happy with our kink and deepest desires. Maybe they really aren't in that place. Some are less honest about their needs and wants than others, some will never make that real 1st effort. For me, I saw that lost little boy's bolting for what it was and walked very slowly behind him until he could see me; not the fetish model he thought he wanted, but the total, whole person. I just hope that more would be willing to make that journey. LL who is sick in bed with a cold the boy gave her; now THAT's true love [:D]

Chi -> RE: Understanding why subs do flake (9/22/2008 5:27:42 PM)
Shifted, I think there is an element you may have overlooked, your demeanor, open honesty, friendliness and the sense of truth that rings from your words, never lose sight of the fact; quality of content is of infinitely more importance then an alleged skill in throwing a single tale. Perhaps this man was honest with you when sharing the mental emotional battle he faced because you value honesty and it is an obvious part of you.

HotMistress22 -> RE: Understanding why subs do flake (9/22/2008 6:27:26 PM)
Excellent depiction. I couldn't agree more. You hit the nail right on the head! HM

ShaktiSama -> RE: Understanding why subs do flake (9/22/2008 7:22:52 PM)
Interesting thread, although the answer Akasha has come up with is really not incompatible with the answer I had come up with quite a while ago. When people "flake" on a promise or a date, they are behaving rudely. People behave rudely because they do not think that their victims matter, and thus see no reason to be kind, polite, or even humanly decent to them. Akasha has pinpointed one of many possible reasons that a submissive man might think that a certain dominant woman does not matter; his desire for pain or submission can "cycle", and he may decide that the woman who might potentially fulfill these needs is no longer worth his time. I would suggest that this reflects a pretty shallow, vapid, selfish attitude on his part--a man who regards any woman simply as an instrument to fulfill his sexual needs is, to put it bluntly, a cock. I'm sure there are other reasons to "flake" or behave badly toward others. Personally, though, I really do not care which of any number of possible reasons may cause a man to be rude to me. The upshot is that he does not not think I am worthy of respect and courtesy. He is mistaken.

AAkasha -> RE: Understanding why subs do flake (9/22/2008 9:09:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama Interesting thread, although the answer Akasha has come up with is really not incompatible with the answer I had come up with quite a while ago. When people "flake" on a promise or a date, they are behaving rudely. People behave rudely because they do not think that their victims matter, and thus see no reason to be kind, polite, or even humanly decent to them. Akasha has pinpointed one of many possible reasons that a submissive man might think that a certain dominant woman does not matter; his desire for pain or submission can "cycle", and he may decide that the woman who might potentially fulfill these needs is no longer worth his time. I would suggest that this reflects a pretty shallow, vapid, selfish attitude on his part--a man who regards any woman simply as an instrument to fulfill his sexual needs is, to put it bluntly, a cock. I'm sure there are other reasons to "flake" or behave badly toward others. Personally, though, I really do not care which of any number of possible reasons may cause a man to be rude to me. The upshot is that he does not not think I am worthy of respect and courtesy. He is mistaken. There are lots of reasons for flaking - a lot of has to do with dishonesty or general rudeness. In this thread I was talking more about the ones that vanish, then come back and beg for a second chance, and sometimes do the same routine over and over again. I think when men have pent up fantasies a long time and "sort of" get the itch scratched and wake up and feel better, they think they are not kinky any longer. For a few weeks. Akasha

ShiftedJewel -> RE: Understanding why subs do flake (9/23/2008 11:22:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Chi Shifted, I think there is an element you may have overlooked, your demeanor, open honesty, friendliness and the sense of truth that rings from your words, never lose sight of the fact; quality of content is of infinitely more importance then an alleged skill in throwing a single tale. Perhaps this man was honest with you when sharing the mental emotional battle he faced because you value honesty and it is an obvious part of you. *You know? I'm hoping to be in Florida sometime in Feb.... you may end up kidnapped.* *Jewel*

ShaktiSama -> RE: Understanding why subs do flake (9/23/2008 7:00:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha There are lots of reasons for flaking - a lot of has to do with dishonesty or general rudeness. In this thread I was talking more about the ones that vanish, then come back and beg for a second chance, and sometimes do the same routine over and over again. I think when men have pent up fantasies a long time and "sort of" get the itch scratched and wake up and feel better, they think they are not kinky any longer. For a few weeks. Akasha Yeah, I get what you're saying. However, thinking "I'm not kinky anymore" is really not an excuse for being so rude. Lots of people have doubts, fears, emotional rollercoasters to ride. The reason we get through the rough patches and grab the brass ring is that we keep in mind that our potential partners are people, and we treat them as such. Even in times and places where we can't put together a DS dynamic, we manage to make friends and social contacts. We don't try to separate being kinky from being human. If thinking "I'm not kinky anymore" is a reason to abruptly end all contact without a word of explanation, "I'm not horny anymore" is a reason for me to abruptly get up and leave the room without a word during a session--even if my bottom is tied up helpless and in danger. After all, who cares? He doesn't matter--it's all about me. He's not a person, just an object that I batted around briefly before I lost interest. Who cares if he suffocates, much less feels frustrated or abandoned? By the same token, "I'm not hungry anymore" is a perfectly good reason for me to get up from the table at a restaurant and leave without paying, and "I'm not interested in this stretch of freeway anymore" is a perfectly good reason to veer into oncoming traffic and kill three people. There are some things we just don't do. Flaking on someone without a word of explanation or apology is one of them. It's rude and thoughtless and most people learned better manners before they left the second grade, unless there is something severely wrong with them. Anyway. Yeah, if you don't have some kind of basic understanding that your potential DS partners are human beings who deserve to be treated as such, rather than some kind of sexual back-scratching tool...I think that's a problem. I consider basic courtesy to be mandatory in both dominants and submissives, regardless of what your DS fantasy is. That applies during negotiations as well as play. Flaking says a lot about a person--none of it good. I know other people may have had other experiences, but I have never had anyone who flaked on me for any reason turn out to be a decent human being, a good friend or a worthwhile lay. If it's all about them, it's all about them--all the time. And I have never seen that change. Just my two cents. I'm just glad I don't have to deal with this crap any more. [:'(]

AAkasha -> RE: Understanding why subs do flake (9/23/2008 7:09:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama Yeah, I get what you're saying. However, thinking "I'm not kinky anymore" is really not an excuse for being so rude. Lots of people have doubts, fears, emotional rollercoasters to ride. The reason we get through the rough patches and grab the brass ring is that we keep in mind that our potential partners are people, and we treat them as such. Even in times and places where we can't put together a DS dynamic, we manage to make friends and social contacts. We don't try to separate being kinky from being human. Oh, I am with you on that. But I think some subs honestly think that they just are not kinky any more and they shut the door on it. They honestly just think they are through - for good - and there's no reason to keep communicating with someone with the intent to get kinky if you woke up not kinky any more. Rude, sure. But, I think they sweep the whole thing under the rug and forget about it until they wake up and feel kinky again. I am not sure if it's just a coincidence, but I have found that subs who have relatively little/no experience and are VERY "shot out of a cannon" (analogy of eyes bigger than stomach when sitting down for a meal) are the most likely to get on the kinky merry go-round. If they have had some S&M experiences, outlets, they are more familiar with how their cycles work. There were times in my late teens/early 20s I honestly thought my kinkiness was going away. There were times after REALLY intense "sessions" with boyfriends that I almost got rid of toys because I was sure it was out of my system. I could go several days or a week really without feeling much interest in it, including having no physical/emotional/mental reaction to fantasies, pictures or videos that usually would at least get me to feel that ache/thud in my belly. That dramatic a shift in reaction can be startling. I was often sad - I mean, I liked my kinky side. It was like losing a 'superhero power' of uber-sensuality-reaction-mode. Then I realized it would always come back. So subs that aren't really sure about how they will react to it, I think, are shocked at how much "over it" they get, and if they are the slightest bit ashamed, or have a "what was I THINKING!?" moment, then it's easier to just delete the account and pretend it didn't happen. Akasha

OneMoreWaste -> RE: Understanding why subs do flake (9/23/2008 9:23:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha Oh, I am with you on that. But I think some subs honestly think that they just are not kinky any more and they shut the door on it. They honestly just think they are through - for good - and there's no reason to keep communicating with someone with the intent to get kinky if you woke up not kinky any more. Rude, sure. But, I think they sweep the whole thing under the rug and forget about it until they wake up and feel kinky again. I beg to differ based on one issue- but maybe it's just me. I tend to think that guys will have already experienced the buildup>release>ignore>buildup cycle enough times to realize that it will be back before reaching that tipping point where they say, okay, I'm going to try to go find a Woman to actually do this. "Well I don't want this right now" doesn't really seem like adequate reason to skip when they've already taken significant steps towards Realizing The Dream- like setting up a meeting. I'd much sooner blame it on plain ol' chickening out.

TermsConditions -> RE: Understanding why subs do flake (9/23/2008 9:34:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsStarlett Here's the brand of Flakey that makes me want to beat someone.... I remain confused. I thought wanting to beat someone was a good good thing for you? :-P tnc - has NEVER stood up a potential mistress or play partner.

CdnExplorer -> RE: Understanding why subs do flake (9/23/2008 9:44:51 PM)
I can attest to the shame / what was I thinking moments. I went through a long cycle of that, though I never went far enough to drag someone else into my internal drama. What would happen is I'd start thinking about kink again, a lot. I'd poke around online and explore my fantasies a bit, and search for some kind of outlet that I felt safe with. Not finding that outlet eventually the desire would draw back and I'd feel pretty disgusted with myself, and really didn't feel like anyone could accept the real me. I even did the purging thing a couple times, as I've heard crossdressers do. Following that would be a long period where I'd just be safely numb and not really sexual at all. Eventually I found a local bdsm group and got to know some people in a casual setting with no expectations. Eventually I came to grips with what I need. I never flaked out on anyone because I never gave myself the chance, but I know full well that I would have if I had gone down that road before I was ready. As much as it's rude to just leave someone hanging, I don't think its entirely fair to get really indignant over it either. Can you really blame someone for not contacting you again, when he's essentially scared of himself? Imagine how threatening you would be to someone who has gone into denial over their submissive needs and wants, living in a society where men who don't take control are looked down upon. You might ask why meeting a dominant for a coffee is any different from going to a munch. Basically I blame porn. When I first started to realize my nature porn was the only source of "information" around. It filled my head with all these ideas of what would be expected of me, and filled in the blanks for things I hadn't yet figured out about myself. Not having already had experience in the lifestyle I'd have been nervous about what would happen and would draw on what little I knew, as ridiculous as it was.

Chi -> RE: Understanding why subs do flake (9/24/2008 3:07:37 AM)
Shifted, it is not that I and I strongly suspect many others cannot read between the lines, of course we can, my comment about your honesty stems from the fact you are honest. A rare find in an environment where the majority artificially inflate their egos and sell themselves as product.

MissLily -> RE: Understanding why subs do flake (9/25/2008 3:49:12 PM)
Amen Sister! I had noticed the cycle but had never put my thoughts together... Besides, I had been in a ravenous mode for the last two years. Zeal of the recently converted I think. Only recently the urges go down to almost not-existing level. THEN I started realising what my boys might have been living. Now I'm the one flaking on some of my boys. I did tell them about the urges wearing down in a major way, but now, I hardly have enough motivation to keep polite conversation going... So yeah, I get it now. It's still annoying, but since I do the same, I'm just going to have to be more tolerant about it. SUCH a good post Akasha! Thanks, Miss Lily

slim1112 -> RE: Understanding why subs do flake (9/25/2008 9:40:59 PM)
although i am fairly inexperienced, i understand exactly where you are coming from some very good points are made here

LexiTempest -> RE: Understanding why subs do flake (9/25/2008 10:27:48 PM)
With Me, a lot of times it's a 2.5-3 hour drive that's at stake. So I don't mess around with that shit. I have Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, and I certainly don't have the energy (nor the gas money) to be driving all over the place for someone who may or may not be there. That's why I require a deposit beforehand. Though that scares off some subs, like I said, there's just too much at stake for Me to blindly trust someone- My energy is limited, so I have to use it wisely. And I'm protected if he doesn't show, because he certainly wouldn't be getting the deposit back! [:D] But also, I wanted to add another perspective to the "flaky debate": As I said above, I have CFS, and with that comes good days and bad. So I can see how I could appear to flake out on people (not as in not showing up, but taking longer to answer emails, return phone calls, etc), when really I'm just exhausted beyond belief/sleeping for a long time/recouperating from pushing Myself too far. Sometimes I can be out of commission for days, and there's no predicting it. Luckily, those who are close to Me know about My illness and are very understanding and supportive. But no one else knows I'm sick until I tell them because I don't look ill. Actually, I don't think I've EVER had a session that was just 1 hour... it's always longer, because it's important for Me to take the time to rest a bit. But I enjoy conversing and familiarizing with My subs anyway- it's a nice way to wind down. [:)] Anyway, I just wanted to add that, because things aren't always as they appear. But they better have a damn good excuse! lol

LexiTempest -> RE: Understanding why subs do flake (9/25/2008 10:44:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha In this thread I was talking more about the ones that vanish, then come back and beg for a second chance, and sometimes do the same routine over and over again. Akasha Sorry, I thought you were talking about general flakiness, haha. I have definitely had My fair share of subs who disappear for a couple weeks, then come crawling back to beg for another chance. If I can manage to get back to someone within days when I have a chronic illness, there is no excuse for a healthy person disappearing for the better part of a month! [8\|]

ShiftedJewel -> RE: Understanding why subs do flake (9/26/2008 12:34:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Chi Shifted, it is not that I and I strongly suspect many others cannot read between the lines, of course we can, my comment about your honesty stems from the fact you are honest. A rare find in an environment where the majority artificially inflate their egos and sell themselves as product. *I notice how skillfully you avoided the "kidnap" threat....hmmmm? And sweetie, I'm not rare, I actually well done....* *Sorry for the hijack... back to your regularly scheduled program.* *Jewel*

Chi -> RE: Understanding why subs do flake (9/27/2008 7:29:48 AM)
Shifted, in reference to kidnapped, how would the wonder and splendor of you, those magnificent elegantly unique sophisticated qualities that make you the woman you are leap to the surface if you were to take advantage of my innocence? What if you opted to sail with me and chasing the wind while listening to the soothing serenade of gentle waves bursting at the bow, what of a naked cabin boy serving late night dinners under the stars. Or just a masculine muscular man who has wrapped his massive arms around you as you watch the sun painting its spectacular pictures at dusk and dawn? Who my dear lady would be kidnapping who?

ShiftedJewel -> RE: Understanding why subs do flake (9/27/2008 7:45:13 AM)
*I made a deal with the Great One Neptune many years ago. I don't go into his home and he doesn't come into mine. It's worked out well for us.* *Jewel*

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