The present difficulties ?

The present difficulties ? (Full Version)

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Aneirin -> The present difficulties ? (9/19/2008 5:41:26 PM)
I wonder perhaps this world in which we live, this world of finance, is it the real world, or in reality a world we have constructed. It being a man made product, it has by nature a finite life, it will collapse, break down and become nothing, are we seeing the start of that with the world wide problems involving finance? But what is this world of finance, is it a world created by people who seek nothing more in their lives than wealth, is it they have forgotten how to live ? Who here would like to have a place that is simple, a family around and a return to old ways ? Horses don't need oil, how much do we really need to live ?

Raechard -> RE: The present difficulties ? (9/19/2008 5:45:14 PM)
In this world where you can sell what you don't own is it any surprise some people wonder how people end up being able to print their own money in effect? It's like a game to those people at the top buying and selling livelihoods. It could be worse though, I could work at HBOS.

corysub -> RE: The present difficulties ? (9/19/2008 6:22:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin I wonder perhaps this world in which we live, this world of finance, is it the real world, or in reality a world we have constructed. It being a man made product, it has by nature a finite life, it will collapse, break down and become nothing, are we seeing the start of that with the world wide problems involving finance? But what is this world of finance, is it a world created by people who seek nothing more in their lives than wealth, is it they have forgotten how to live ? Who here would like to have a place that is simple, a family around and a return to old ways ? Horses don't need oil, how much do we really need to live ? Dern it... I wish we could go back to the simple, leave it to beaver world of my youth. Unfortunately, those wonderful, simple, times are gone. On the other hand, we did have our fears...like any moment Soviet Russia was going to nuke our cities and we would all be dead. The age of innocence of our youth did not seem that way at the time. Shame that youth is wasted on youth...as they say.

popeye1250 -> RE: The present difficulties ? (9/19/2008 6:32:26 PM)
Kitty Pilgrim on the News tonight said that layoffs will now be "even" between blue and white collar workers. Man! Starbucks is going to be getting some real good talent as baristas now!

Irishknight -> RE: The present difficulties ? (9/19/2008 6:48:28 PM)
Horses don't need oil .... what about the costs of cutting and bailing hay? Fuel prices are directly counted into the cost of hay. A bail costs nearly twice what it did a year ago. Without a lot of land, you HAVE to buy hay to feed the horses. We have a lot of pasture and we still buy hay and grain. The "old ways" are pretty expensive too. Its going to cost me just as much to buy horse drawn haying equipment as it would to buy a tractor with several different implements. I'm saving up for it because that's what I want. Mind you, repair bills on equipment get pretty high at times. As for the old ways being simple ... rofl. Life on a farm would beat most people living today. It is a great deal more complicated than people think. There is always something to do and not enough time or help to do it all. Then you have to worry about rainfall and weather. Droughts or floods can kill you quick. If it gets too hot, you start losing stock. While I never want to live with the drones in the city again, I'll be the first to tell most folks that its not an easy life. I'll also be the first to tell you that most people alive today would die if they had to do it to live.

Vendaval -> RE: The present difficulties ? (9/19/2008 7:08:12 PM)
And we have all the modern advances in hygiene, nutrition and veternarian medicine working for our advantage in farming and ranching.

Irishknight -> RE: The present difficulties ? (9/20/2008 1:12:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Vendaval And we have all the modern advances in hygiene, nutrition and veternarian medicine working for our advantage in farming and ranching. Precisely. Most farmers would not know how to wqork without those either. Unless you are farming without a tractor and pumping your water by hand, you have little to no idea what the "old ways" are. Even most farmers would fail at the "old ways." I am slowly converting my ranch to a combination of the old and the new. The amount of knowledge you have to gain is comparable to that for any college dgree and if you had to do it on the spot ... failure becomes the most likely option.

Aneirin -> RE: The present difficulties ? (9/20/2008 3:27:12 PM)
Perhaps the way forward is a combination of old and new, a middle ground so to speak. But life in the past was hard, every century before the same, life was a struggle to achieve physically. Now we have machines to do the physical labour, so we live with less effort, but those machines require fuel and masintenance, factors that carry a cost, a monetary cost, so somewhere between man and machine, a median can be found, life becomes harder, but cheaper. It is for all of us to decide what it is we want in life. Given the recent developments, may they be the beginning of the end, or just a warning, it is for all of us to re-evaluate what we actually want from life.

bipolarber -> RE: The present difficulties ? (9/20/2008 4:00:31 PM)
Ever play the computer game "civilization?" One of my problems with that game is that the point system which you use to build and advance the world within the game is insufficently complex... (Same with "Spore" which trivializes the truth of evolution.) The point is, the financial system we created in the Fertile Crescent (the exchange of abstract tokens of societal worth, for goods and services) has actually made the bulk of our civilization possible. The first economies were based on trade goods. Then they becam increasingly technological. Energy became the basis for building economies: first coal, then oil... and soon, all the various alternatives. Look at Dubai, as an example. That city did not exist 20 years ago... it was built from scratch. Primarily, it was built from the wealth of the very, very few, wealth that came from energy... from oil. The one thing you can always count on, is change.

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