RE: Submissive and slave improvement

RE: Submissive and slave improvement (Full Version)

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perverseangelic -> RE: Submissive and slave improvement (11/30/2005 11:20:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: troilus Is not a main benefit of being submissive to allow your dom or master to make improvements to your self that you would not make on your own? Oh lord, not at all! I would be -seriously- disapointed in myself if it took someone -else- to effect an improvment that I needed to make. If it were a change my partner wanted, that he saw as improvment but I had no feeling on at all, well, that's his right at dominant partner and I want to change to make him happy. Like many others on this thread the main benifit of belonging to my partner is the sense of fufilment that such belonging brings me. quote: To that, I am curious if slaves and submissives would welcome a master who would insist that they lose (or sometimes gain) weight, exercise, learn manners, etc. Welcome? Well, not really. Were I already in a realtionship with this person I would, of course, do as they desired however I wouldn't enter into a relationship with someone who wanted to change me at the outset. If someone couldn't be content with me as I am, I would feel that they didn't want -me- but rather an idealized person that wasn't who I really am. I'm chubby. I've always been chubby and probably always will be. It's a combination of medical factors and less than perfect eating habbits. I'm in fairly decent shape and excersize with some regularity. Overall, I live a pretty healthy lifestyle with some not amazing choices thrown in. (IE I have a weakness for fast food). Were someone to tell me that I would be expected to lose x-amount of weight once I got invovled with them, I would feel that they didn't actually like -me-. I would feel as though they only saw the chubbyness, not anything that I actually consider =me.= Were they, however, to say "I would expect you to increace your physical activity and go running/walking/working out with me three days a week" I wouldn't feel the same. In that sense, it isn't about not accepting who I am, it's about changing a habit to be more pleasing. I don't know that I can articulate the difference, but there is one to me. quote: How many would go farther, and accept gifts of surgery? I'm not interested in that, but I imagine some would like to nip and tuck their slaves... I would probably enjoy it, but it would -shatter- my self esteem to be offered.

trueshadow -> RE: Submissive and slave improvement (12/1/2005 3:50:16 PM)
I've heard about slaves who ask to be punished if they don't meet a weight goal or the like. I've also never heard of it working. If a Domme wanted to change or 'improve' me, I suppose I'd consider it, but I couldn't promise to change my behavior or physical characteristics in a major way. I've set goals for myself that by-and-large I've kept. I weight what I did in High School. I exercise. I read, write, and take care of my animals. Of course, I have faults. But I don't know if those faults are subject to concious control (such as 'cheer up!'). Bottom line: maybe. I wouldn't change many things, but if ordered, I could be a better slave to my Mistress.

girl4you2 -> RE: Submissive and slave improvement (12/1/2005 4:00:30 PM)
aren't the 12 step programs all founded on the basic idea that you first admit to yourself that you've something you wish to work on? until an individual recognizes that they have something they wish to change (hairstyle, alcoholism, enabling, gambling, whatever), it's no good, or at least that's the premise of these programs for success stories. if i have something i wish to change, i have to first see it, and want to change it. then i've to see what i need to do in order to effect change. it is at that point that perhaps assistance might be helpful. but first, i've to see it. again, if a dominant wishes to change a submissive, the thought goes to why, if not a basic health concern. if a Master wishes to change a slave, that is something that i'd hope would be brought up early on, before it is something that could involve permanent change (i.e. potential death), and decisions made based upon full disclosure. okay, off the box; soap flakes are spilling everywhere and the tree's not up yet. i wish all well.

littleone35 -> RE: Submissive and slave improvement (12/1/2005 7:05:33 PM)
I am losing weight to make me fell better about myself not for a Dom. Plastic surgery not in a million years any surgery has risks and one surgery (non plastic) was more the enough for me. littleone

troilus -> RE: Submissive and slave improvement (12/2/2005 2:25:02 PM)
Interesting to me, how the mood of the discussion shifted from "yes!" to "meh" to "no..." Do I take it that most submissives just like to play, and are not really submitting?

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Submissive and slave improvement (12/2/2005 2:28:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: troilus Interesting to me, how the mood of the discussion shifted from "yes!" to "meh" to "no..." Do I take it that most submissives just like to play, and are not really submitting? Have the people who said yes changed their minds? For some people body modification is an issue, for some its not an issue and for some "it depends."

girl4you2 -> RE: Submissive and slave improvement (12/2/2005 2:34:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: troilus Interesting to me, how the mood of the discussion shifted from "yes!" to "meh" to "no..." Do I take it that most submissives just like to play, and are not really submitting? i would ask that you please read the posts of the individuals who have posted. i have not changed my position, nor has anyone else. the mood goes with the individual poster. real submissives are truly submissive and don't just "like to play." there are multi facets to submissives, and are far, far more than playtoys. (i was going to talk collectively, but i will switch to my own voice which i think is shared somewhat) i submit truly and completely to the one(s) that i choose to be with. i'm in it for life, not play hour. i respectively request that you ponder this point as well. i wish you well.

troilus -> RE: Submissive and slave improvement (12/2/2005 5:13:26 PM)
I should mention that I do not intend to criticize. I ask questions merely to understand. I know that this is a sensitive subject. Also remember that I am not likely responding specifically to your comment. Lots of people come in between. This is a discussion, and I will not attempt to have 12 individual conversations.

troilus -> RE: Submissive and slave improvement (12/2/2005 5:26:38 PM)
One thing I feel, from reading people's responses, is that the confusion of sadism and domination continues. I am well aware that it is sadistic to repeatedly chastize someone who is overweight. A good master would assume control of his charge's eating. I would show her how to enjoy her food more and eat less. Only an idiot would expect results from exhortations.

kisshou -> RE: Submissive and slave improvement (12/2/2005 8:46:59 PM)
well subbella, I hate to tell you this but I quit smoking over a year ago and still crave it. The only thing that has kept me from lighting up is knowing the minute I did I would cease to be owned. My reward is knowing he is pleased and that he continues to own me , he has bought me tons of bubble gum too :) stay strong and hopefully he will help you devlop new habits to replace the old ones and help you find outlets for stress and ways to channel that nervous energy. well wishes kiss

perverseangelic -> RE: Submissive and slave improvement (12/2/2005 9:29:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: troilus One thing I feel, from reading people's responses, is that the confusion of sadism and domination continues. I am well aware that it is sadistic to repeatedly chastize someone who is overweight. A good master would assume control of his charge's eating. I would show her how to enjoy her food more and eat less. Only an idiot would expect results from exhortations. I have to disagree with these statments. A "good" dominant partner, IMHO, will only do these things if s/he -wants- to do them. I guess it's hard for me to believe that those of us who are overweight truly don't know how to "eat less" and "enjoy food more." Many of us -do- have those skills, but have made the choice not to. ~shrug~ I understand what you're saying, however I think that your understanding of why some are overweight is flawed. For the most part, we know how to eat in such a way that we will lose weight but we either choose not to, or have other reasons that we are overweight (medical reasons, for example.) Also, how would you address the idea that it would seem as though you are not willing to accept your potential partner as s/he is? That is, why would you activly seek out a partner who you would have to "help" to lose weight in order to enjoy her? The answers I've come up with are this-- one enjoys her personality but isn't aroused by her form. Or one is interested in the person but believes they are "unhealthy." I -do- understand encouraging an excercise regimen, or maintaining healthy eating habits. That makes good sense to me. However, I have trouble understanding the desire to "help" someone lose weight. Help them be healthy, yes. However, there are many people who -are- healthy and overweight, or at least above the weight that popular culture has designated as attractive. I dunno. I guess it all boils down to my own baggage and the fact that it would devestate my self esteeme if my partner couldn't love me as I am.

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