Racism is not Dead (Full Version)

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cloudboy -> Racism is not Dead (9/20/2008 9:09:22 AM)

Many of the responders in the White Privilege thread said we live in a color-blind society. They said that pointing to double standards was "bullshit" or "whining." They said racism was a thing of the past. They said they had nothing to be guilty about. They said everyone in America can get ahead if they want to.

Well, maybe, even most probably, those particular responders have nothing to to feel individually "guilty" about. I know I don't feel "guilty" for the racism in society.

But, racism in America is not dead.

Its just a fact. It is what it is.

I give credit to McCain and Obama for not making this a political issue in the election. Overall, America is doing the best that it can in this election. No one would ever dispute that (or maybe they would) the US electorate is far from the most enlightened. But, as far as racism goes, the electorate is better than it used to be 50 years ago.

-----

Statistical models derived from the poll suggest that Obama's support would be as much as 6 percentage points higher if there were no white racial prejudice.

Doonsbury was just brilliant about this.




celticlord2112 -> RE: Racism is not Dead (9/20/2008 9:25:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
I give credit to McCain and Obama for not making this a political issue in the election. Overall, America is doing the best that it can in this election. No one would ever dispute that (or maybe they would) the US electorate is far from the most enlightened.

I will most assuredly dispute that odious assertion. The mere fact that a sizeable segment of the US electorate categorically rejects socialism as the intellectually bankrupt con job that it is alone makes the US more "enlightened" than, say, Europe.

Do you really want to play this game of pointless flag waving?




cloudboy -> RE: Racism is not Dead (9/20/2008 9:36:13 AM)




What impeaches your credibility is how you out-and-out deny racism despite objective evidence to the contrary. I know its hard for you to accept, but sometimes we have to alter our opinions to fit the facts.

The poll states that some white voters are hesitant to vote for Obama because he's black, not because he's a "socialist."





meatcleaver -> RE: Racism is not Dead (9/20/2008 9:41:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
I give credit to McCain and Obama for not making this a political issue in the election. Overall, America is doing the best that it can in this election. No one would ever dispute that (or maybe they would) the US electorate is far from the most enlightened.

I will most assuredly dispute that odious assertion. The mere fact that a sizeable segment of the US electorate categorically rejects socialism as the intellectually bankrupt con job that it is alone makes the US more "enlightened" than, say, Europe.

Do you really want to play this game of pointless flag waving?


I'm trying to figure out what socialism has to do with racism, only someone ignorant of both would put them together.

I've never met an ordinary American who lives in western Europe (and there are quite a few) say, aren't the health and education systems crap here. Most wish we had similar back home.

I don't mind living in an intellectually bankrupt country because I know I'm much better off than comparable Americans in America.




popeye1250 -> RE: Racism is not Dead (9/20/2008 9:45:48 AM)

It looks like the Lefties are already starting to make excuses for when Abadabba loses.
"It was "Racism" I tell ya!"
"That's why he lost!"
Forget the fact that millions of Hillary Clinton voters will vote for McCain to position her for a run in 2012.[sm=marionette.gif]




NumberSix -> RE: Racism is not Dead (9/20/2008 9:48:30 AM)

The absurd dreams of the theorists.

No more will vote for Hillary than Rush followers voted for Hillary.  Pipe dream.

McLame will not prevail.

6




Sanity -> RE: Racism is not Dead (9/20/2008 9:49:43 AM)


Do you feel better now, since you've gotten your daily kick in at the United States?

quote:

I don't mind living in an intellectually bankrupt country because I know I'm much better off than comparable Americans in America.




meatcleaver -> RE: Racism is not Dead (9/20/2008 9:52:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Do you feel better now, since you've gotten your daily kick in at the United States?

quote:

I don't mind living in an intellectually bankrupt country because I know I'm much better off than comparable Americans in America.



Actually, I was urged to add those last two sentences by an American friend who is sat behind me and laughs when I get such responses as yours.




Sanity -> RE: Racism is not Dead (9/20/2008 10:08:52 AM)

Yeah, I'm sure, meatcleaver. He sits behind you urging such insulting comments in nearly every post you submit...

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
Actually, I was urged to add those last two sentences by an American friend who is sat behind me and laughs when I get such responses as yours.




cloudboy -> RE: Racism is not Dead (9/20/2008 10:09:37 AM)


The flip side is what a remarkable achievement it will be if Obama wins.

--------

While a high black turnout will obviously help Obama, whether he becomes president will hinge on the decisions of white voters. (Most Hispanic-Americans list themselves as white or don't designate a race.) In all, 94.2 million white Americans took part in the 2004 presidential election, as compared to only 13.5 million blacks; and 58 percent of whites supported George W. Bush against just 41 percent for John Kerry. So the Obama campaign, even if helped by external events, will have to change a lot of white minds.

There are already danger signs. In three states, race will in effect be on the ballot. Colorado and Nebraska are giving their residents a chance to ban affirmative action. The measures in both states carry the title " civil rights initiative ," at the urging of the black political activist Ward Connerly, who succeeded in outlawing affirmative action in California and has inspired similar campaigns in other states. The signs are that both measures will pass with votes to spare. This is what happened in California (1996), Washington (1998), and Michigan (2006), which tend to be liberal states. The reason isn't hard to find. Putting affirmative action on a ballot encourages white majorities to identify themselves by their race. It's their rights they are voting to restore.

What is seldom openly said is that a lot of white Americans feel racially aggrieved. They were represented by Barbara Grutter and Jennifer Gratz, whose petitions to end affirmative action reached the Supreme Court in 2003. [5] Their claims were that places which would otherwise have been theirs at the University of Michigan were given to less qualified black applicants. Thus, they argued, they were rejected because they were white, and there was an official preference for other races. In separate decisions, the Court narrowly upheld the law school's affirmative action method, while striking down the undergraduate admissions procedure.

What is rarely mentioned is that neither Grutter nor Gratz were outstanding candidates. To put it crudely, they weren't high on the "white list." And a lot of whites see themselves in the same situation. They are the ones who don't get admission or promotions, and thus feel they bear the brunt of affirmative action. Nor are they wrong about this, as Obama observed in his Philadelphia speech. Moreover, such feelings about affirmative action appear to be nationwide, even in states where it hasn't been on the ballot. Obama's word "bitter" may describe a good many blue-collar and middle-income families whose children have been rejected by their state's university.

This explains why close to 65 percent of white voters in California, Washington, and Michigan supported the bans, and why similar proportions are expected to in Colorado and Nebraska this November. So a task of Obama's campaign is to ensure that this white cause—which is what it is—does not carry over to the presidential contest.




servantheart -> RE: Racism is not Dead (9/20/2008 10:40:34 AM)

I agree.  Racism is not dead.  It exists in every ethnic group and in every country in this world.
 

 
 




meatcleaver -> RE: Racism is not Dead (9/20/2008 10:48:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Yeah, I'm sure, meatcleaver. He sits behind you urging such insulting comments in nearly every post you submit...

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
Actually, I was urged to add those last two sentences by an American friend who is sat behind me and laughs when I get such responses as yours.



Since we work together and I'm the one stuck on the computer, well, yeah, a lot of the time. But I think CL was hoping for that sort of response, he put the target up.




faerytattoodgirl -> RE: Racism is not Dead (9/20/2008 10:50:16 AM)

it especially exists in sports like nfl.  or hockey....and gets too much media attention that fuels such a subject.




celticlord2112 -> RE: Racism is not Dead (9/20/2008 11:12:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
What impeaches your credibility is how you out-and-out deny racism despite objective evidence to the contrary. I know its hard for you to accept, but sometimes we have to alter our opinions to fit the facts.

The poll states that some white voters are hesitant to vote for Obama because he's black, not because he's a "socialist."

Sir, my credibility is intact. I freely acknowledge the faults within American society. I freely acknowledge as well that I find American society infinitely preferable to other societies.

Nothing that I have said tarnishes my credibility in this or any forum.




jezzabelle -> RE: Racism is not Dead (9/20/2008 11:23:11 AM)

A lil off topic first....
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Forget the fact that millions of Hillary Clinton voters will vote for McCain to position her for a run in 2012.[sm=marionette.gif]


I'm one of those "Hillary Clinton voters" and I can assure you I'm not voting for McCain.  He lost any chance he had for my vote when he picked his VP.

Now, to the OP, yes, I agree that unfortunately racism is not dead.  I wish we did all live in a color blind society, but that's not the case and who knows if it ever will be.  I personally don't judge a person based on their gender, race, sexual orientation, etc. but I know there are many that still do. 




Evility -> RE: Racism is not Dead (9/20/2008 11:28:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
The poll states that some white voters are hesitant to vote for Obama because he's black, not because he's a "socialist."


How many people are voting for Obama because he is black?

I agree with you that racism is alive and well in the USA. The notion that it is one sided is utter bullshit.







ggirl4tgirl -> RE: Racism is not Dead (9/20/2008 11:49:31 AM)

NOT me. I am white but NEITHER of us have COLOR.




pusssnbooots2 -> RE: Racism is not Dead (9/20/2008 11:57:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Evility

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
The poll states that some white voters are hesitant to vote for Obama because he's black, not because he's a "socialist."

How many people are voting for Obama because he is black?

I agree with you that racism is alive and well in the USA. The notion that it is one sided is utter bullshit.



The notion that there are only two sides to racism in the world is bullshit - I believe it is multi-faceted.  It seems to be human behavior for hatred to exist.






bipolarber -> RE: Racism is not Dead (9/20/2008 12:14:39 PM)

Yup, CL, I'll give you that... your credibility is where it's always been![8|]




Irishknight -> RE: Racism is not Dead (9/20/2008 1:38:56 PM)

Racism and sexism are not dead.  They never will be as long as we keep worshipping at their altars.  We draw them like guns when we feel someone is getting something they don't deserve or not getting something they actually do deserve.  We use both as blanket excuses for failure.
Maybe its time we took race and gender off of applications for schools and jobs.  Look at the contents instead of the packaging and you might get what you need. 
If every single person would take responsibility for their own behavior and attitudes, racism and sexism would be things of the past as soon as tomorrow.  Try to hold up your end of this deal and you'll see the world around you change just a little.  Keep dwelling on these things and you keep fueling them.




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