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RE: Anger & submissives - 9/21/2008 5:10:50 PM

awakenednj

Posts: 657
Joined: 2/10/2008
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The first time I got angry with him I kinda freaked out about it because I thought I wasn't suppposed to. *silly girl*
What I do now is just tell him. "___ made me angry because ___". Sometimes he responds right away, sometimes not. Sometimes over the next week he'll prompt my thoughts in ways that will make me see why he did something a particular way. One thing I still don't understand a month later... but that's his perogative. I have to hand him over every thought in my head... including my anger... than trust him to do what is best.

(in reply to hejira92)

Post #: 21

RE: Anger & submissives - 9/21/2008 5:51:19 PM

leakylee

Posts: 747
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline

having a rather short fuse, with a rather low intensity bang does have its good points. i dont tend to hold much back. when you combine that with being overly forthright and blunt, it isnt such a good combination. so i have tried to learn to shut-up, until such time as i have calmed down. i try not to discuss things emotionally. my former did have the sense to keep all written communications for me free. i could say whatever in hell i was thinking or feeling without worry or concern. it was where i could vent.

those are still two things i value. leave me alone until i am fit to talk too, and i need a place free to just blurb. they help keep me healthy, relatively pain free, and are how i have learned to channel that quick fire.

i mean if you detest fighting and drama, but still have a bit of temper or whatever you want to call it. learning ways to direct it can really help.

lee

_____________________________

I am so not right, that I left..

(in reply to pixelslave)

Post #: 22

RE: Anger & submissives - 9/21/2008 5:55:42 PM

bluefireroses

Posts: 37
Joined: 8/22/2008
Status: offline

With my former Dom, we would sit down and talk it out. He some times would let me be angry and then come back to talk to me about it. I just kept my distance until I felt I could talk to him.

(in reply to pixelslave)

Post #: 23

RE: Anger & submissives - 9/21/2008 6:39:20 PM

catize

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline

~Fast Reply~
I think that whether one is dominant, submissive, or ‘just folks’, we all could benefit from learning how to express anger appropriately.
The problem with a journal, in my experience, is that it becomes easy to hide behind the written word and impedes learning to own one’s feelings face to face.

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to bluefireroses)

Post #: 24

RE: Anger & submissives - 9/21/2008 6:52:10 PM

VivaciousSub

Posts: 446
Joined: 9/7/2008
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline

For me, a journal is a place to vent my thoughts and arrange them logically so that when it comes time to discuss something sensitive with my Master, I can be logical and calm, not a pouty little snot that deserves discipline for disrespect. In this case, it helps me own up to my feelings face to face in a constructive manner. The more proficient I get at ordering my thoughts, the faster I can do it in person.

_____________________________

9.8m/s^2 + VivaciousSub + ground = ouchx10^9th

To yield readily--easily--to the persuasion of a friend is no merit.... To yield without conviction is no compliment to the understanding of either. ~ Pride and Prejudice

(in reply to catize)

Post #: 25

RE: Anger & submissives - 9/21/2008 7:23:05 PM

catize

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: VivaciousSub

For me, a journal is a place to vent my thoughts and arrange them logically so that when it comes time to discuss something sensitive with my Master, I can be logical and calm, not a pouty little snot that deserves discipline for disrespect. In this case, it helps me own up to my feelings face to face in a constructive manner. The more proficient I get at ordering my thoughts, the faster I can do it in person.

That is the way it should be used I think!

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to VivaciousSub)

Post #: 26

RE: Anger & submissives - 9/21/2008 10:41:38 PM

VivaciousSub

Posts: 446
Joined: 9/7/2008
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline

Thanks! I used to be much more of the "open mouth, insert foot, bite down" type but ever since I started writing out how I felt about things, it's helped me calm myself down. I think that I'd like to keep a journal for my next Master and see how that goes. I've heard of it being used with great success to keep communication open.

_____________________________

9.8m/s^2 + VivaciousSub + ground = ouchx10^9th

To yield readily--easily--to the persuasion of a friend is no merit.... To yield without conviction is no compliment to the understanding of either. ~ Pride and Prejudice

(in reply to catize)

Post #: 27

RE: Anger & submissives - 9/21/2008 10:58:59 PM

WhiplashSmile2

Posts: 526
Joined: 6/11/2008
Status: offline

I'm in a new and developing exploritory relationship with a submissive. Twice now, she has become upset or angry with me. However, I let her express herself. She expresses herself respectfully, so it's no big issue.

I tend to guide myself by a code of ethics, and these two times she has realized that she her anger with unfair and not right. To be honest with you, a couple of times she's upset me and I've expressed myself in a similar manner.

I don't have a double set of standards for myself and my partner. In fact in many regards these are the standards I even hold my other relationships to. Such as friendships and etc.

If somebody has a problem with me, is upset or angry. I'm all ears, just as long as I'm shown respect. If somebody has no respect for me as a person, well frankly it's a red flag. I'll address any issues with lack of respect, if there is no change in the behavior, fuck it. It's not worth it.

Hope this makes sense to you.

(in reply to pixelslave)

Post #: 28

RE: Anger & submissives - 9/22/2008 1:12:53 AM

leakylee

Posts: 747
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline

you know i wonder if it comes down to being honest and open even in the written form. that is partly why i never toned it down. i mean by the end of my rants i had calmed. like you it helped me focus. also helped to stave off the lovely taste of toe jam, nasty taste that. but if you dont let those feelings out somewhere. they tend to build somewhere, and will eventually go boom!!

_____________________________

I am so not right, that I left..

(in reply to VivaciousSub)

Post #: 29

RE: Anger & submissives - 9/22/2008 4:15:14 AM

stella41b

Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline

Greetings Pixel

I would agree that yes, there are inevitable times when conflicts arise in a relationship, including those between dominant and submissive, but these are minor conflicts which I'm sure are resolved. However you're writing about anger and resentment, and what is resentment if not some sort of long term, festering anger? Surely these don't have any place in any sort of successful relationship?

I may be mistaken but being aware that you've gone from one relationship to another in recent months and reading such an OP I guess the telling statement for me is the 'when a new dynamic is being established'.. Does this mean that the relationship is being developed together with the dynamic? Then why the conflict? What is the nature of theh conflict?

There's no place for anger or resentment in the D/s dynamic. This is how I see it. But then I see the basic relationship minus the dynamic to be separate from the dynamic, for it is the fundamental basis for the dynamic. Without that basic relationship there is no dynamic.

Therefore I would ask you just how well you know your dominant, sans dynamic. How well do you know her as a person? And how well do you know yourself? Is the conflict something you've experienced with someone else, another dominant? How was that handled or managed? And how does it compare with this current conflict? Surely any possible conflicts between you two as people - woman and man rather than dominant and submissive - need to be addressed even before you work to establish the dynamic? Unless of course it's a conflict over the dynamic. I may be wide of the mark here, but perhaps answering some of the questions above may lead to some sort of awareness which in turn leads to a resolution of the conflict.

You see I see any dynamic as a harmonious unit of both dominant and submissive working together, as a team, in the same direction. Yes conflicts do arise, but we would hope that these are trivial, minor, conflicts which can be solved through communication. But then again it can be said, from the perspective of submissive, that it's not for you to like or agree with the decisions made by your dominant, but merely to accept them. Isn't this is what submission is really all about, seeking your own fulfillment through the fulfillment of your dominant? Either way sometimes it pays to probe a little deeper.

And however which way it comes out in the wash, I wish you well.

_____________________________

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(in reply to pixelslave)

Post #: 30

RE: Anger & submissives - 9/22/2008 5:38:58 AM

Slavelary

Posts: 54
Joined: 7/28/2008
Status: offline

I've never had a problem with that, and I usually have an explosive temper due to bipolar tendencies. It might be just my medication which works, generally... Maybe it's just the kind of relationship I have with my Master.

(in reply to pixelslave)

Post #: 31

RE: Anger & submissives - 9/22/2008 7:50:17 AM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline

You know, it's worth pointing out given the responses so far.... that sometimes after discussion, it turns out that she had a really really good reason to be angry which results in a heart-felt apology (or 10) from me. As Whiplash pointed out, respect is required in order to honor the roles we've chosen. But I can still be wrong... way wrong...

(in reply to Slavelary)

Post #: 32

RE: Anger & submissives - 9/22/2008 7:59:44 AM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

I'm a big believer in communication of all things, even anger. However, I believe in keeping it civil and if that requires the submissive or myself to step away for a little bit in order to cool down the ardor and rawness of the emotions and bring thoughts to an expressive order, then that makes sense. When my ex and I were going through the end of our marriage and what had been reasonable discussions in the years prior turned into very frustrating exercises in "you listen to me and then I'll listen to you" but with her getting her point across and then walking away from what I had to say, I went to my therapist. He taught me that, # 1, I did not have to subject myself to that kind of discussion...especially if when she came back to talk, she still did not want to hear my point of view. And # 2, he taught me that if you cannot get a hold of your anger in a reasonable length of time...15-30 minutes at the earliest and 3-4 hours at the most... to at least open the door to dialogue, then you are the one with a problem with controlling your anger and other issues, not your partner.

(in reply to pixelslave)

Post #: 33

RE: Anger & submissives - 9/22/2008 8:02:11 AM

littleone35

Posts: 2828
Joined: 2/17/2005
Status: offline

Master and i don't really fight sometimes well most time we disagree on those hot button topice politics and reglion. We don't fight about them though we have agreed to disagree on those 2 topics. I never really get angry at him. We talk things out, Master can tell if something is bothering me, he reads me like a open book. Resent him has not happened yet ,don't think it will. I gave him my submission why should i resent him when he tells me to do something. If it is somtehing i don't think is a good idea i will tell him that, but as always he has fnal say.

Matt's littleone

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 34

RE: Anger & submissives - 9/22/2008 4:16:02 PM

pixelslave

Posts: 1444
Joined: 8/19/2006
Status: offline

Fast Reply to all...

I've been very busy since starting this thread and haven't had time to post any replies. I greatly appreciate the many responses and am impressed by how quickly this thread has grown (usually all of my threads die quickly LOL! ).

Anger can be a difficult thing for many to learn to handle and even more difficult to learn to express in a respectful manner when one's emotions are high. I teach my UM's to try and view things as either "Big things or Little things". When they realize an argument is over something that a "Little thing" vs. a "Big thing", it's typically much easier for them to let go of and move on. That's really not what the purpose of my OP was about. The intent was in regard to the difficulties with a submissive's anger over what feels like "Big things" to them and how they handle them with their dominant, that I was specifically looking for responses on how couples adress this in their dynamic.

To me, "Big things" aren't about purchases, how the place will be decorated, or other material things; nor are they about "play" or the kind of service that's expected of me. Instead, typically they're much more on an emotional level; things which affect me internally in terms of my sense of security, self-esteem, or my value/place in the relationship. Those are the kinds of things which can generate fears or hurt and result in anger for me. Yes, as Stella suggested, they may represent my own issues at times (when they do, I own them as mine), but they also may not. They can also be a normal response to real events or actions to which others would typically have the same type of reaction as I may be having.

Sometimes, the needs and desires of the Dominant may be in direct conflict with the needs and desires of the submissive. For whatever reasons, there can be no "win-win" situation created or negotiated. I'm specifically talking about real needs and desires here where there's a great emotional attachment involved; not just where someone wants something in play and the other doesn't, or else wants something different. I speak of when my needs and desires have been clearly stated, heard and considered. I'm speaking of situations where despite my input having been considered, ultimately a decision was made where it was clear my needs wouldn't be met.

It's at those times, when I'm most likely to feel anger and resentment toward my dominant even though I fully understand that I've agreed as part of our dynamic to accept my dominant's decisions in the matters which resulted in my feeling that way. I've learned that it's at those times when being a submissive seems to be the most difficult and hardest for me. That's when I truly am submitting through having to let go of my own needs and desires for those of my dominant. It's not a trivial task to let go of the real anger you're feeling when you know inside that a real need of yours wasn't met so your dominant could have other needs of hers met instead.

Of significance here, as many have noted, repressing anger or resentment in a relationship is very unhealthy. Expressing it safely and respectfully, while discharging it and not harboring it is something important to learn; yet clearly not easy for many, including me (especially the discharging and not harboring it). How to do that with the help of one's dominant was mentioned by at least a few posters and I appreciate that. Further discussion on that would certainly be of interest to me as most things for me genuinely tend to be "Little things" that I can let go of and am not emotionally involved or attached to, but when I am, it can be problematic for me to express it to my dominant as well as work it out with her and release it.

- pixel

Lady Pact's bleaux

< Message edited by pixelslave -- 9/22/2008 4:17:29 PM >

_____________________________

Chivalry isn't dead! It's for those who have it in their hearts & are willing to be taught. It's a way of life, a code of honor; this one's armor still needs some polishing!

(in reply to littleone35)

Post #: 35

RE: Anger & submissives - 9/22/2008 6:04:59 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

I can't help. He has never made a decision knowing that my needs will deliberately not be met. If this happened a lot, I would be forced to conclude that we just didn't have enough compatibility to make a relationship work.

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Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to pixelslave)

Post #: 36

RE: Anger & submissives - 9/23/2008 5:15:24 AM

SrchngCpl73112

Posts: 47
Joined: 9/21/2008
Status: offline

Total communication has never failed us, which has been a very hard thign for me coming from a very emotionally abusive relationship for many years where i wasnt allowed to express my feelings, wants, desires. He knows me like a book and can tell immediately if there is something bothering me. He will sometimes have to pull out of me whats wrong but i have learned it is always ok to talk to him. He will not hurt me. He wants me to tell him how i feel and to express my opinions. He does have the last word but i know my opinions and feelings are always taken into consideration. I could not imagine ever holding any kind of resentment for him in anything. We have to much communication for that. If there have been times when he hurt my feelings unintentionally HE doesnt allow those feelings to fester and cause problems. Especially with me having some past issues being able to communicate him reading me like he does allows him to know that somethign is going on and he will pull it out of me. If he has really done something unintentional he will always apologize for it. Sometimes it is just being a girl and taking things the wrong way.

Having someone that is so caring and so understanding and knows me so well is unbelievable. I never thought life could be so wonderful!

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 37

RE: Anger & submissives - 9/23/2008 5:43:54 AM

celticlord2112

Posts: 5732
Status: offline

quote:

My question is, how are those feelings safely expressed and dealt with in your relationship?

Short answer: they aren't.

Longer answer: There is no such thing as a "safe" expression of feeling or emotion. I cannot conceive of any aspect of a relationship more dangerous than expressing feelings.

My slave gets angry. So do I. I can dwell on the negativity or I can let it pass and focus on her desire to be my slave. I choose the second course--much more satisfying in the long run (plus the make up sex is totally hawt!!!!

)

_____________________________

(in reply to pixelslave)

Post #: 38

RE: Anger & submissives - 9/23/2008 6:33:20 AM

pixelslave

Posts: 1444
Joined: 8/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SrchngCpl73112
Total communication has never failed us, which has been a very hard thign for me coming from a very emotionally abusive relationship for many years where i wasnt allowed to express my feelings, wants, desires.

I too have been in emotionally abusive relationships as well and can appreciate where you're coming from. That background has created it's difficulties for me as well. It's the reason I mentioned the word "safe", when it comes to expressing any feelings of anger or resentment.

quote:

He knows me like a book and can tell immediately if there is something bothering me.

A "poker face" is something I don't have, so my emotions clearly show when I'm upset.

quote:

i have learned it is always ok to talk to him. He will not hurt me. He wants me to tell him how i feel and to express my opinions. He does have the last word but i know my opinions and feelings are always taken into consideration.

I am learning the same with Mistress. It's a new experience for me and trusting that it's safe to express all of my feelings, particularly anger, has been something of a stretch for me at times. I'm very glad I have been able to as it's been well worth the discomfort and overcoming the fears of what it might do to the relationship if I expressed it.

quote:

I could not imagine ever holding any kind of resentment for him in anything. We have to much communication for that. If there have been times when he hurt my feelings unintentionally HE doesnt allow those feelings to fester and cause problems.

I don't want to hold onto any feelings of anger or resentment either. I feel as though our communication is good as well. I simply wanted to post to find out how other couples specifically dealt with these issues and how other Dominants helped their submissives move beyond any anger they may be feeling following decisions that are made with which they don't agree, but know they have to accept. There genuinely are times when compromises can't be made or the needs of both met. In my experience, when both are committed to creating "win-win" situations, those times are rare, but they do happen.

quote:

Having someone that is so caring and so understanding and knows me so well is unbelievable. I never thought life could be so wonderful!

Life can indeed be wonderful, especially when one is in service to a loving Dominant.

- pixel

Lady Pact's bleaux

_____________________________

Chivalry isn't dead! It's for those who have it in their hearts & are willing to be taught. It's a way of life, a code of honor; this one's armor still needs some polishing!

(in reply to SrchngCpl73112)

Post #: 39

RE: Anger & submissives - 9/23/2008 6:42:10 AM

pixelslave

Posts: 1444
Joined: 8/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: pixelslave

My question is, how are those feelings safely expressed and dealt with in your relationship?

Short answer: they aren't.

Longer answer: There is no such thing as a "safe" expression of feeling or emotion. I cannot conceive of any aspect of a relationship more dangerous than expressing feelings.

There's wisdom in what you say sir. When a person expresses their emotions is when they are the most vulnerable.

quote:

My slave gets angry. So do I. I can dwell on the negativity or I can let it pass and focus on her desire to be my slave. I choose the second course--much more satisfying in the long run (plus the make up sex is totally hawt!!!! )

It's true that one can choose how they wish to view things. That has been my approach to trying to resolve my feelings about the issue I am currently dealing with. Logic and emotions don't always mix well, but given time, a positive attitude certainly affects change in one's general feelings; hopefully translating to specific ones as well.

Thank you for your response.

- pixel

Lady Pact's bleaux

< Message edited by pixelslave -- 9/23/2008 6:43:20 AM >

_____________________________

Chivalry isn't dead! It's for those who have it in their hearts & are willing to be taught. It's a way of life, a code of honor; this one's armor still needs some polishing!

(in reply to celticlord2112)

Post #: 40

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