Termyn8or
Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
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Hip I agree about the geographical distances, that is what's killing us. It doesn't have to be a commune, just a town or small city. The car is only one example, because it is very difficult to be totally self sufficient. The point would be to be as self sufficient as possible.
In an enviroment like you describe, it would be a challenge to build a decent bicycle, and many foods will simply not grow in certain places. There would have to be some trade with the rest of the world. The point is to have something to trade and keep it fair and balanced, something that is not happening today.
There are other problems, many caused ny tax dollars. Ghettos were created using our money, rewarding welfare recipients for having more kids than they can afford. This has caused White flight and now a whole lot of people drive twenty or more miles to work each day, EACH DAY. BTW, White flight is just a term that is being used because of it's known meaning, every year I see less and less racial disparity.
Now we have people living out in the burbs working downtown, meantime the smaller newer communities offer tax breaks and lower paying jobs actually move to the burbs. This causes a whole lot of unnecessary transportation.
I actually sort of traded jobs with someone about 3½ years ago. Pay is similar, work is similar, but my trip to work went from 23 miles down to 7½, his went from about 32 down to 15. I consider this a step in the right direction. What's more he lives out in the stix and needs a four wheel drive in the winter months, so the gas station was very glad to see him. He actually gave up on the technical field and went to manage a hardware store, and that is even closer to where he lives.
Some people get it, others don't. I also see contractors who drive across town to do a job and another driving just as far in the opposite direction to do the same job. I have proposed that there be a contract trading system whereby they just swap jobs, but there are a few hinderances. For one you can't trust anyone. They will gladly trade off the PITA jobs and keep the gravy jobs for themselves.
You would have gotten along with Jim Watt. One day I walk into his house and his GF is shaking a small container, constantly, I asked "What is that all about ?", he replied "She is learning how to make butter". When he died, I believe the world suffered quite a loss. He was not broke, in fact far from it, but lived a sort of minimalist existence. "We don't need that" was one of his favorite statements.
Libertarian socialism, even communism would work well if not for peoples' greed. You see, I put the apostophe after the S, and for good reason. One of the planks of communism is "Each according to his ability, each according to his need". When people find out that they are not greatly rewarded for success, they will slack. That is a form of greed actually. Leaders become corrupt of course, but so do the people.
The communal system might work up to say a countywide scale. Any larger and it defeats the purpose, to minimize transportation. A nice idea, if only it could be implemented properly.
I think a thread on that topic might prove interesting, but this is a hijack, and there might be an inbound M11 at this point. Might be nice to give it some thought, just what would such a society need ? Couple farmers, some kind of general store to get those things we just can't produce for whatever reason. Craftsmen of different sorts, the list goes on and really I haven't given it much thought as of yet. Not everyone would need a car. There would probably be a few, I can see it now, to get gas you get on the phone "Hey Jeb, I need some gasoline, when can you open the station ?" and Jeb responds " Gimme a couple of hours, I am fixing Hoser's roof right now". Need a doctor, one learned in the ways of homeopathic and naturopathic methods, but mainly be a skilled surgeon. Someone needs a truck to get coal for the blacksmith unless we have a coal mine handy.
To try to get to the heart of the concept, minimize dependance on others. You can't eliminate it. You will never again eat a bananna or a cashew, never again see many things. So IMO what is most important is to produce something that can be sold so we can trade it for things we simply cannot produce for ourselves.
There are a couple of sayings I detest. One would be anything that starts with "Why don't you just ....", meaning to take the easy way out. The other, not yet revealed is anything that starts with "You can buy". I buddy of mine drove me crazy with that. I actually started smacking him around. For example I might be installing wall tile around a custom shower and he'll say "You can just buy the whole thing made out of fiberglass, it all snaps together and installs in a few minutes". No I didn't kick him, but it turns out my neighbor has one of those and they can't take a bath because the tub is cracked. They can take showers but if that's all, why bother having a tub ?
Quick and easy, that seems to be the major selling point these days. As long as the people in general opt for quick and easy, we will never solve the massive problems of the world.
I am sure we agree, everything we do either creates or wastes heat. Even living. It would be quite unreasonable to think there would not be an impact on the environment. Somewhere I saw, maybe I'll look for it later, something about just how many BTUs of heat produced or dissipated by each human being during their lifetime. Include everything, the car running during the 20 minute ride to work, the heat dissipated by say a TV or other electronic device. The heat pumped out of a domicile by air conditioning, and not to forget the furnace in the winter.
Mow the grass, then put your hand on the cylinder head of the lawnmower engine. Sorry about the blisters, but where is that heat going ? I understand that we can't do everything, but from a different angle, you did not need that heat to mow the grass. You weren't burning the grass off, the heat was a byproduct.
Just to try to be on topic now, I still fail to see the usefulness of these rubber duckies. Who cares which way the water goes from a melting iceberg ? What does it matter, it's an ocean !. You put more water in it like a pot on the stove and the level goes up everywhere in the vessel. Worrying about it is like taking a spoonful of water out of the vessel and wondering if some of those water molecules were supposed to be on the other side. It's totally ridiculous.
Just add that to all the other useful things tax dollars are spent on like observing the mating habits of the tsetse fly for example. There are many other examples, many of them pointed out to congress by James Trafficant, until they put him in prison. He would say "Beam me up Scotty" which of course implies the next part "There is no intelligent life here".
T
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RE: Your tax dollars at work! "Rubber duckies sen... - 
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