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Modern Gor - 8/2/2004 9:16:22 AM   
FatherMichael


Posts: 19
Joined: 7/18/2004
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Hey All,

I'm a writer...as hard as that is to believe by my abuse of the english langauge on this board...and I'm brainstorming.

I want to put together a novel or two akin to gor without being high-fantasy or as convaluted with the plot lines (forgive me Lord Norman...don't have your ghost/ghostwriters strike me down dead :) (yes I know why that's funny too..but shhh, don't tell the uninformed) and I was just looking for opinions on what folks within the life would think would be worth be reading.

and no you're not sharing the copywrite :) the finsihed product will go on a free-site somewhere, some things we do for money, some things we do for art and some things we do cuz it's the right thing to do.
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RE: Modern Gor - 8/2/2004 12:13:38 PM   
January


Posts: 891
Joined: 4/17/2004
Status: offline
Hi,

I guess I'm not sure why you'd think this board would agree on anything, let alone what we'd like to see in an erotic bdsm novel.

It seems to me that most people who are involved in bdsm would like to read bdsm fiction a little more fantastic or extreme than what they actually live. That info doesn't really help you much, as the board is composed of a huge range of experiences and desires.

Me? I'd like to read a nice romance between male Top/master and female bottom/slave. Hey, I wouldn't mind a nice science fiction background either, as long as the females get multiple orgasms, and the alien men are still very handsome.

January

_____________________________

[link: http://www.bookstrand.com/miss-you-sir] Miss You, Sir by January Rowe is available from Siren now! It's my latest smokin' hot bdsm romance.[/link]




(in reply to FatherMichael)
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RE: Modern Gor - 8/2/2004 1:28:33 PM   
iwillserveu


Posts: 1633
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
I'd love a BDSM novel about women making love to elephants.

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

(in reply to FatherMichael)
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RE: Modern Gor - 8/2/2004 1:47:45 PM   
MistressDREAD


Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
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Does the artist
worry about if the lines are straight
or go with the flow?
Michael I wouldent worry about
languages or the misuse of them
for they will survive no doubt after
You and I are dead and long gone...
(thats what editors are for anyhow to
correct our oversights and besides
they need employment too.)...and
Your misuse will pale in comparason
no doubt to Mine and Mine will keep
Your simple mistakes well over looked.
`~giggles~
If You desire for it to be more Real Life
then Fantasy I suggest to do sum research
on those whom live Gor in Real Life. Say
take a extended vacation and find agreeable
Goreans across the boards of Lifestyle and
take a taste of Their living. Im sure it would
make for sum Great writing and information
as well as become another Guru type book
in the future where yet another writer will be
thinking of writing sumthing alone the lines of
what You wrote and be calling You Lord Father
Michael...~smiles~ JMO..........Oh yea by the way
Welcome to Collarme....

(in reply to iwillserveu)
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RE: Modern Gor - 8/2/2004 4:27:01 PM   
iwillserveu


Posts: 1633
Joined: 1/1/2004
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Hey Dread,

Those links you used to have, perhaps he could use them.

So she won't feel like she's giving in to little old me (When in fact I know as well as she does that she will do what she darn well pleases)

Please, please Mistress Dread, do not give him the links.

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

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RE: Modern Gor - 8/2/2004 4:36:58 PM   
MistressDREAD


Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
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There still on the board iwill and if he wants em can find em just like anyone else if he has a desire.........and My links and lists was only a partial to all the Real Life Gor groups that are formed all over the world.

However I have a incling that He has all the referance that he needs allready. have you ever seen just how dirty elephants keep their selfs iwill? Hope you like mudpies..........

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RE: Modern Gor - 8/2/2004 7:29:06 PM   
Sinergy


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Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

I'd love a BDSM novel about women making love to elephants.


That is cute, but think about the visual of a guy jumping up and humping a female elephant for amusement value.

Not sure what that has to go with Modern Gor, but there ya go.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to MistressDREAD)
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RE: Modern Gor - 8/3/2004 2:53:20 AM   
compes


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Well, I thought Gor was sort of a kinky / poor man's Edgar Rice Burrows. It's like ERB started to write the John Carter of Mars series while high in a whore house. Ghost writers you say? And all this time I was blaming John Norman for being a hack.

Okay, I know it was fantasy, but still, the best fantasies are rooted in reality. For example - biology. Yes, that can be an ugly subject, but if you just mention it in passing, you will be more grounded in reality. Gor's women all seem to have the flexability and stamina of a 14 year old gymnast! And I can't seem to recall a woman in Gor having a period.

The only nod to biology that Norman gives is to the way a body reacts to being beaten or branded. (although the healing time for the brands seemed suspiciously fast)

I'm not saying you need to write a Doctor's set of crib notes - I just think what kills Gor for me is that it is SO far away from the reality of life, that I can't identify with it. Shoot, I love the slave positions in Gor - but so far I haven't met a submissive who can get into ALL of those positions for more than a minute. Mostly we pick and choose.

Second, fantasy shouldn't have too many twists to it. People can suspend disbelief in magic, or in dragons, or in alternate worlds, but you start piling up one item after another with no internal consistancy and you get people leaving the fantasy in disgust and boredom. There has to be a logical thread that pulls it all together. And that thread must be believable. Gor has guns, swords, flying/fighting birds to be ridden, intelligent spiders, and these odd looking aliens, all held together on a planet that uses machines to generate it's own gravity? sheesh. It didn't work. And I kept reading for the same reason why I'd watch a train wreck. (I stopped - it was beginning to give me a headache)


Hmm... okay, and one other thing that is sure to polarize people who love / hate Gor. I'm not impressed with Norman inventing Gorean words in a pseudo language. Just as I'm not impressed with Star Trek junkies dressing like, and speaking in Klingon. I'm a Sci-fi / Fantasy nut, but that is too much for me. If you're having fun, fine. Your kink isn't mine, but that's okay. I'll do my best to not laugh.

Mark

< Message edited by compes -- 8/3/2004 2:55:41 AM >

(in reply to FatherMichael)
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RE: Modern Gor - 8/3/2004 5:40:35 AM   
FatherMichael


Posts: 19
Joined: 7/18/2004
Status: offline
Thanks gang for the insights (that's for the laid back folks)
Thank you all of your thoughts and suggestions (that's for the folks who like a little ritual in their day)

I am real impressed with compes insights to the gor writing....the publishing rumors/legends about it pretty much fit what you said, if you haven't delved into the mastabatory-self-serving rumor mill of why-what-gets-published...you should pat yourself on your back for figgerin' out motivates and mindset of creation.

anwyay,

and I do thank MistressDread for everything she said. it was nice to see that true gor fans are not opposed to a modern update/compannion/whatever it turns into set of stories. It made me feel a lot better than I wouldn't have to hide out with Ruschdide<sp> if I wrote it all.

the basic concept for the 'world' the stories are set in, is a modern world with the power-exchangers (catch phrase to encompass everybody it'd take 3pages to include) operate in their own little truth under the radar of the vanilla world...think rice's vampires or some kiddie wizards people might be familar with...a cabal whic both effects the ordianary world as is penned in by it while they fufill their indvidual wants(err wanton) of power expressed on a sexual level.

as I said to my agent when I was trying the salespitch...think Ian flemming meets larry flynt meets Al Crowley....after she stopped laughing she didn't see the mainstream possiblities of it. so that's why I came here and asked about it. if joe-average isn't ready for the story, maybe Susie-domme is.

thanks again folks, keep the idea coming....the more you do, the more often I can soak my brain in burbon as any proper writer should. :)

_____________________________

Branding is a choice
sitting funny for a few days is a consequence

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RE: Modern Gor - 8/14/2005 4:36:37 PM   
MasterTemujin


Posts: 42
Joined: 5/2/2005
Status: offline
Perhaps you could read John Norman's non fiction book, "Imaginative Sex," for more ideas.

R/S,

Master Temujin

(in reply to FatherMichael)
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RE: Modern Gor - 8/14/2005 5:17:05 PM   
Fidelity


Posts: 192
Joined: 8/1/2005
Status: offline
If you really want to read a book that was rather well done by Norman,I'd suggest "Time slave."

Not one of the more popular or known,but it was a cut or two above the rest.

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RE: Modern Gor - 8/14/2005 10:16:05 PM   
nella


Posts: 1243
Joined: 12/30/2004
From: Norway
Status: offline
i would ahve liked to see a D/s novel whit more emotion than the Gor books, where the subs and the Masters actualy do care aboute one another, at least some of them.

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RE: Modern Gor - 8/15/2005 3:47:05 AM   
NakedOnMyChain


Posts: 2431
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: Indiana
Status: offline
Take your most memorable experiences in the scene and put them on paper. Embellish where needed and Voila, you have "The Memoirs of FatherMichael".

_____________________________

"Oh, it's torture, but I'm almost there."
~The Cure

"I ask for so little. Just fear me, love me, do as I say, and I will be your slave."
~The Labyrinth

(in reply to FatherMichael)
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RE: Modern Gor - 8/15/2005 6:20:01 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
I'd have said the first thing would be to go and stay with someone who talks the talk, walks the walk and lives the life. That would give a good basis.

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Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

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RE: Modern Gor - 8/15/2005 9:22:19 AM   
ChereeAmoor


Posts: 185
Joined: 8/1/2005
Status: offline
Heh, I would like to stumble across BDSM erotica that skips the verbal humiliation. So far I guess I will have to either write it myself, or wait until someone with far more talent than I have (which would be almost anyone!) thinks, "Hey...control is more complex than just calling someone a slut...hmmm...."

Ahh, such dreams I have!

(in reply to IronBear)
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RE: Modern Gor - 8/15/2005 9:53:12 AM   
Veav


Posts: 150
Joined: 8/1/2005
Status: offline
I'd like to see internal consistency. Take your hook and expand on it, work with it, figure out motivations and consequences and lifestyles - but don't, as others have mentioned, sprinkle on foreign elements just to make things more fantastical. Fantasy Stew is good; Fantasy-in-a-blender is... ugh.

You mentioned that d/s lifestylers would somehow have a greater power. I'm wondering how you intend to approach this; maybe those performing a "scene" get a charge of power, which can be used to manipulate others. The more profound or significant the scene, the greater the charge and the more potential the manipulation (being able to make or break phobias, encourage someone's submissive streak, turn a sleepy suburb into mob rule). The effects should be subtle and gradual, not bolts-from-a-wand stuff.

Instead of an underworld, why not get political? Have these power-exchangers operating more or less in the open, toy around with group dynamics and Tom Clancy stuff. It would be a way to bridge that perceived gap and snag some mainstreamer attention.

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Yes, I am Gordon Freeman. Accept this, and move on with your life.

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RE: Modern Gor - 8/15/2005 10:10:26 AM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
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I was going to suggest if you wanted to do a fantasy setting you might want to take a look at HarnWorld by Columbia Games, its well know for its internal consistency. But since you wrote this...
quote:

the basic concept for the 'world' the stories are set in, is a modern world with the power-exchangers (catch phrase to encompass everybody it'd take 3pages to include) operate in their own little truth under the radar of the vanilla world...think rice's vampires or some kiddie wizards people might be familar with...a cabal whic both effects the ordianary world as is penned in by it while they fufill their indvidual wants(err wanton) of power expressed on a sexual level.

First question, why the Al Crowley inclusion?
Second, have you considered look at the present day Mafia for a model... the actually do this sort of thing you know.

One writer to another I'd suggest you start by developing your setting first. Pick a city or town to be the main setting and look at that. Do some research, census info, city publicity info (you can send off for that, most places have special info packs for writers doing research, just call and ask), maybe search around for some photos, take a trip there and experience the place. Then write out a description of the parts of the city you want to use... either real or invented nightclubs, resteraunts, buildings, people, etc... make it a living breathing place that the reader could imagine functioning as a normal city.

Once you have that, then start building your cabal behind the scenes of that. Think it through, who are they, how did they start and when. Build your timeline up from that starting point to present, how did they develop, grow, expand, avoid detection, etc. Layering that detail will add believability and depth. Also keep in mind that probably 2/3 of that detail won't make it into the book, it'll remain just in your notes... save it for a "Guide to..." book later.

By now you have enough information and detail plots should be easy to develop because you've created a "living" setting that could conceivably exist and function. Decide on a main plot for the book... one persons journey into this world? Some one escaping it? The rise to power of one individual through the ranks? Stick to one main idea and then add subplots to that.

Write clearly, avoid too much fancy language or complex grammar. Remember, the average high school graduate in the US cannot properly diagram a sentence... stick to language that is accessible, you aren't here to show off how sesquipedalian you can be.

If you must invent language, either gang slang, code words, etc... actually create a functional language and write it down. Work out how that developed too. People love Tolkien's elvish (and there is more than one form actually) because he was a linguist who created "living" languages the reader can make sense of once they learn some of the meanings. Simple examples... gul means magic. A reader knowing that even if they have never read the books could guess that Nazgul was something magical... Mor means dark... thus Morgul probably means "dark magic". The reader can than figure that Mordor must mean dark something... maybe guess at "dark place"... but once they also see Gondor, the astute reader might correctly guess Mordor means Dark Land. Once a reader has this, the words make sense and don't seem so alien. They can begin anticipating meanings of words without the author having to constantly explain them (which breaks the flow of the story if done too much) and even invent their own, which for some readers is a lot of fun.

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Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to FatherMichael)
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RE: Modern Gor - 8/15/2005 2:22:12 PM   
CalliopePurple


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From: SeaTac area
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Padriag, those are good tips for anyone planning on writing anything. I'm afraid you may have kicked my muses into wanting me to flesh out the fantasy world that's been rolling around in my head for the past couple of years. I just hate not being a visual person when people ask me "Well, what kind of clothes do the people in this world wear?"

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Kimi ni aitakute dare yori mo aitakute
hajimete kimi ni atta hoshizora no shita de.
Kimi ni tsutaetai todokanai omoi demo
boku no kokoro wa mada kimi o sagashiteiru.

Gackt - Kimi ni Aitakute

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