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Bailout Snapshot - I have no clue what's going on. - 9/23/2008 5:12:33 PM   
DarkSteven


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This is getting weirder every day.

The Democrats gave responded to Bush's latest outrage typically by essentially folding.  They do realize that this is an unprecedented opportunity for them to tack anything oto the bill they want and seem to be blinded by the opportunity.  Pelosi and Frank are talking tough and pretty much saying that they'll make sure that there are CONDITIONS added to the bill.  Whoop de do.  Christopher Dodd has even stated that Paulsin is the right man for the job, ignoring the fact that as CEO of GS he contributed in no small measure to the mess.

Meanwhile, GOP senators DeMint, McDermott, Pence, Shelby, and Bunning are asking the tough questions and could very likely derail the entire bailout.  Questions like, "How do we know this will work?  Especially in light of the fact that your previous bailouts haven't worked?"

So, it looks like Bush may be faciung token opposition from the Dems and stiff opposition from his own party.

Bush himself is reportedly turning into a hermit.

There's no question that the bailout is losing steam quickly.  The original proposal, demanding absolute power to Paulson and asking for $700 bil with a two page position paper, was insane.  The more time that passes before it gets passed, the more opposition is forming.  Senators and Congresspeople are getting earfuls about this and I've read that opposition stands anywhere from 80% to 93% among the public.

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RE: Bailout Snapshot - I have no clue what's going on. - 9/23/2008 5:19:17 PM   
pahunkboy


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a good housecleaning could enhance the life of all who live there.

I say we are many years late for Spring cleaning.

Houses   will come back in value.  Maybe not the extreme value- but there are many who rent that would love to be in a house.

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RE: Bailout Snapshot - I have no clue what's going on. - 9/23/2008 6:03:19 PM   
Sanity


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Kinda odd the way the Democrats aren't calling for investigations.

Normally they're be all over that...


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RE: Bailout Snapshot - I have no clue what's going on. - 9/23/2008 6:20:56 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Kinda odd the way the Democrats aren't calling for investigations.

Normally they're be all over that...



This is the kind of situation that requires growing-up and dropping partisan politicking in favour of a proactive reflexion, because it's a fucking disaster beyond the scope of the Dem/Rep warlette- but I guess it's asking too much  .

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RE: Bailout Snapshot - I have no clue what's going on. - 9/23/2008 6:25:15 PM   
slvemike4u


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I don't know Kittin...lets just slow down and talk about this a bit...giving the Secretary this much unlimitted power like this seems a little rash.Proactive reflexion might leave us holding the short end of the stick.

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RE: Bailout Snapshot - I have no clue what's going on. - 9/23/2008 7:22:48 PM   
corysub


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I listened to part of the testimony today before the Senate Finance Commitee....the hardest part was listening to the damn politicians on both sides of the aisle fluffing their feathers like peacocks, I think they all saw this coming ( but where have the been for ten years?)...and were busy putting together film clips for the people back home.

This bailout plan is like abortion...noone really likes the idea but there is a need and something has to be done.  If control is not to be vested in the hands of the Secretary of the Treasury and the Chairman of the Federal Reserve..who should pull the strings?  Congress??  I don't think so....  Oversight?  I think oversight should be taken away from Congress and given to Goldman, Sachs and Morgan Stanley....true they are major players in the sub-prime and CDO markets...but who is better able to catch the fox in the hen house than another fox?  Afterall, FDR was brilliant in his choice of old Joe Kennedy to be the first head of the Securities and Exchange Commission, a man who was well known for his..lets say aggressive trading practices.

I sure don't want Chris Dodd, the largest recipient of Fanny Mae lobby money to be in charge of that cash register. 

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RE: Bailout Snapshot - I have no clue what's going on. - 9/23/2008 7:32:16 PM   
slvemike4u


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So your okay with Secretary Paulson in charge of the cash register!!!!

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Bailout Snapshot - I have no clue what's going on. - 9/24/2008 4:28:22 AM   
meatcleaver


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One gets the feeling with so much ideological animosity between the two parties, the solution will probably end up being an ideological compromise rather than the right thing.

It will all end up in tears.

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RE: Bailout Snapshot - I have no clue what's going on. - 9/24/2008 4:40:22 AM   
pahunkboy


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http://technorati.com/videos/youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DKvv_5Q4EfNI

watch the 1st 7 minutes of this 7.5 min.


What a guy in France is calling "financial terrorism"

This group is dangerous.


DUDE,  I do not care to hear them marvaling about bi-partisan.
what a load of BS

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RE: Bailout Snapshot - I have no clue what's going on. - 9/24/2008 6:16:49 AM   
corysub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

So your okay with Secretary Paulson in charge of the cash register!!!!


Yep..that is a no brainer mike.  I would rather have Paulson, a guy who doesn't need the work, or political lobby payoffs, in charge of those dollars than Chris Dodd, the largest recipient of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac money while he was supposed to be in charge of Senate oversight, or Barney Frank, or Schumer, Pelosi, or, God forbid, Harry Reid.

What the democrat and lib media is focusing on is the amount of the line being asked for..$750 billion....With that money, and attractive borrowing rates of the U.S. Treasury, the Trust Company, or whatever it is called, will be buying these mortgage backed bonds at significant discounts to maturity value. Trading in these securites is "frozen" at the moment and forced sales would be at severe distress prices.  Not every mortgage out there was written with an idiot who did not realize that his 1% teaser rate was going to go up to market levels, guys who speculated with their family future by buying a house he could not afford because he was going to "make a killing"...and got killed instead.  Most  mortgages are NOT in default.  The government will make money on these purchases and any losses could be 10-20%, if at all.

On the other hand Mike, if we allow the political posturing by ideologues to postpone or possibly derail the Paulson proposal, a lot of us are gonna be out of work in a year or two in the middle of a severe recession.  And than todays "crisis" would seem like a honeymoon.  I don't know about you...but sometimes I go along with things have to be done, even if I don't like it 100%.

< Message edited by corysub -- 9/24/2008 6:18:40 AM >

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RE: Bailout Snapshot - I have no clue what's going on. - 9/24/2008 6:36:47 AM   
SilverMark


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For once cory you almost make sense to me....I am shocked! although you could have done without the political rhetoric but, I know you can't resist.
My one caveat is this passage "Section 8:
    Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.
 
No ONE deserves that much power over this situation!

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RE: Bailout Snapshot - I have no clue what's going on. - 9/24/2008 6:47:34 AM   
pahunkboy


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I repeat.


The houses are still there.   The houses exist.

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RE: Bailout Snapshot - I have no clue what's going on. - 9/24/2008 6:59:07 AM   
corysub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

For once cory you almost make sense to me....I am shocked! although you could have done without the political rhetoric but, I know you can't resist.
My one caveat is this passage "Section 8:
   Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.
 
No ONE deserves that much power over this situation!



Thank you for the comment.  At least there are some on the other side that will admit that even a conservative, like a stoppped clock, can be right twice a day. 

Can't ask for more than that...

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RE: Bailout Snapshot - I have no clue what's going on. - 9/24/2008 7:02:37 AM   
corysub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

One gets the feeling with so much ideological animosity between the two parties, the solution will probably end up being an ideological compromise rather than the right thing.

It will all end up in tears.


I think people in this country, no matter what their political leanings, have the same horrible fear.  Is this an indictment of and the beginning of the end for our wonderful democracy.

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RE: Bailout Snapshot - I have no clue what's going on. - 9/24/2008 7:19:40 AM   
cjan


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Here's an interesting and insightful article on the situation in today's New York Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/24/business/24leonhardt.html?hp


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RE: Bailout Snapshot - I have no clue what's going on. - 9/24/2008 7:29:23 AM   
MissSCD


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We should have asked these questions eight years ago instead of wondering what happened.  Never put an oil man in office anywhere.  We cannot give Bush a blank check because there is no easy fix to this.
I am quite pleased with Jim Demint.  He is my congressman.   He is challenging our Republican infested Whitehouse.
We are broke.  That is what is going on.   The government got us there, and they do not need to fix it. 
The chairman of the Federal Reserve is just as stupid.
I don't know what to do either because there is too much diversity in this world today.   Everything is ok, when in essence it is not.
 
Regards, MissSCD

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RE: Bailout Snapshot - I have no clue what's going on. - 9/24/2008 7:39:53 AM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cjan

Here's an interesting and insightful article on the situation in today's New York Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/24/business/24leonhardt.html?hp



I disagree with the NYT article.

1. "There are really only two [pertinent questions]: What steps are most likely to solve the immediate crisis? And how can the long-term cost to taxpayers be minimized? Everything else — reducing executive pay on Wall Street, changing the bankruptcy laws, somehow slowing the descent of home prices — is either a detail or a distraction."
Bull.  Show me a doctor that's only concerned with fending off immediate death and doesn't care how the condition came to be.
This "crisis" was not even recognized until less than a week ago.  As soon as it was announced, there was such a sense of urgency that no time for reflection was available.  The problem's been known for years.  There's nothing in Paulson's proposal that creates a crisis where none had been before.
2. "The credit markets are nearly dysfunctional, leaving the economy at risk of falling into a downturn unlike any most of us have lived through, and the government is about to commit billions of dollars after only a week of political debate. There’s no time to waste."
Translation - we NEED to take action NOW!  Later we can figure ut whether it made any sense.  Again, bull.
3. "The first thing to understand is that a bailout plan doesn’t have to cost anywhere close to $700 billion, so long as it’s designed well. The $700 billion number that you see everywhere is an estimate of how much the government would spend to buy deteriorating assets now held by banks. Eventually, the government will turn around and sell these assets, for a price almost certain to be greater than zero. So this $700 billion is very different from $700 billion spent on a war or on Medicare."
Um, let me get this straight.  The author is claiming that a government program is likely to cost less than its initial price tag?  When the hell did THAT last happen?
4. "It clearly shouldn’t pay 75 cents on the dollar, or anything close to it. That would mean the Treasury Department — which, in the end, is really you and me — was assuming nearly all the risk. But it probably can’t pay 25 cents. That might fail to fix the credit markets, because it would do relatively little to improve financial firms’ balance sheets. Firms might then remain unwilling to lend money to businesses and households, which is the whole problem the bailout is meant to solve."
Dead wrong.  There is NOT a huge block of securities all valued at 35% or 50% or whatever.  There are bunches of securities valued all over the map, including some that have no value at all.
The firms are not dummies.  If we offer them 30% of face, they will sell us everything worth less than 30%.  Keeping the amount low will minimize the hit we have to take.
5. "
One of the fashionable ideas of the week, supported by both Democratic leaders in Congress and John McCain, is to limit the pay of top executives at any Wall Street firm that sells assets to the government. In effect, this is an attempt to tell Wall Street how to split up a government subsidy among its various employees and shareholders. Personally, I couldn’t care less how much of the subsidy goes to Wall Street’s chief executives and how much goes to Wall Street’s shareholders. I care about the size of the subsidy that we taxpayers are paying. And in a frenzied week, any time spent on talking about C.E.O. pay is time not spent on designing the toughest possible bailout package. I found it telling that the relentlessly pro-business United States Chamber of Commerce has saidit can support executive pay restrictions. The efforts to punish executives and help Main Street are based on a worthy instinct — to address not just the crisis but also larger problems like inequality. The best way to solve those problems, though, is to make sure the government spends as little possible on an effective bailout."
Paying top execs huge salaries while their firms founder violates a tenet of capitalism.  It also ensures that C level execs will continue to take ridiculous risks.  In addition, it might be politically necessary.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: Bailout Snapshot - I have no clue what's going on. - 9/24/2008 7:49:27 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

This "crisis" was not even recognized until less than a week ago. 



This crisis was predicted at least five years ago but no one wanted to listen. The money men were making vast profits on basically fresh air, people were buying houses they couldn't afford and Bush was happy borrowing on the bubble, no doubt hoping the shit would hit the fan after he left office.

The indictment is, bankers and politicians had been warned long ago but the truth is, they were happy not to listen to the doom sayers or all hoping someone else would be sat in their chair when the bubble burst. Everyone in the financial markets should ahve known you can't go on making profits out of effectively fresh air.

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RE: Bailout Snapshot - I have no clue what's going on. - 9/24/2008 7:57:25 AM   
SilverMark


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They do exist...no question, but if they aren't worth the money borrowed I am not sure I get your point pahunk????

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