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Love or some thing like it. - 9/23/2008 11:45:43 PM

bluefireroses

Posts: 37
Joined: 8/22/2008
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It is very rare that I open myself up in relationships to the point where the other person can understand me fully. Part of it is because I have been in the lifestyle and many people don't understand it's dynamic or effects that a D/s relationship can have on you.

It is far easier for me to respect someone then to trust them. Usually, I have to love that person (friendship, romantic, or similar) before I can trust them. Many of the people I've dated have said I'm 'confusing' and give mixed signals, while the people with whom I've opened up to can simply look at me to know what I am thinking. This not only frustrates potential partners, but I some times will become upset when I can't convey an idea or feeling that I am having properly.

Since I've reached that level of comfort with so few people, it is a thousand times harder for me to turn my back on that relationship. For example, I have been off and on with a guy...who is not into D/s...for about 4 years. We bring out the best and the worst in eachother but we can't completely end our relationship. (Perhaps neither of us want to). We both recognize that we are better off as friends and have maintained our relationship at that level.

Several questions have popped into my mind, even in rereading what I wrote.

Have any of you experienced the same kind of experiences?
Have you found yourself more content to be single because you have a such a good friend?
Would you as a Dom/Master order your sub/slave to end any type of friendship with said person?
Would you as a sub/slave feel comfortable obeying such a demand?
Has having that person in your life somehow influence your relationship, no matter how unintentional?

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RE: Love or some thing like it. - 9/24/2008 2:26:28 AM

WhiplashSmile2

Posts: 526
Joined: 6/11/2008
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Your post has stirred a number of thoughts inside my mind.

I personally like to get inside the mindset of anybody I'm involved with, including friends. I'm one of those guys that loves to know and figure out what makes a person tick. A lot of this is passive, where I listen and pick up on things. If something is a little confusing for me, I might ask a question or two to clear things up. I do love getting somebody to open up to me, even if it's slowly. After all I can not DOM the great unknowns.   I can't really properly take charge and be in control of the unknown.

I was involved in a 4 1/2 year Love/Hate relationship. She was my best friend and worse enemy. The paradox is normally we are our own worst enemy, however without a question she would surpass this at times.   This relationship was not a healthy one, and I can see it even more clearly that time has passed.   I'm still working past some of the issues/damages caused from this unhealthy relationship.   It's taken me awhile to be able to trust somebody like I should.

It was extremely hard and difficult for me to turn my back on that relationship, however I had reached a limit. When I reached that limit it literally felt like something deep inside of me breaking and snapping hard.   It's rather hard to break away from somebody who is your best friend as well as worst enemy at times.   The Super Good sides of the relationship keep you holding on.   It's one big emotional "love rollercoaster", I'm not talking about the Red Hot Chilli Peppers remake of that song either.

For me when I'm in a committed relationship, such as a D/s BDSM lifestyle relationship, emotional involvement is part of the deal for me. With that said, I have geniune and real concern for my partners welfare and well being.

I would be expressing myself fully to any partner or anybody I care about, if they had a toxic relationship going on.   I would not bite my tounge.   Even if I were in a DOM couple relationship, I would speak my mind about what was going on.   That is if I felt or thought it was a toxic relationship.

As a Dom in a D/s relationship, I would sit down and have a good conversation and talk about this matter for some length with my submissive partner.   I might not give an order or command right away for them to hault their friendship with this other person. However, if this friendship was causing problems in my relationship, I would without question lay down the law. I would give the Order for them to stop their involvement with the trouble maker. If that did not happen, my only recourse is to protect my own sanity, welfare and best interests. This would mean ending the relationship. Which is what drove me to end my 4 1/2 year relationship.

There was another party that was involved in the mix of things.   Needless to say, I had been lied to a lot. This other person had great influence upon things.   When I discovered the extent of things, I put my foot down.   She appeared to comply, however was lieing and sneaking around about it.   Needless to say the truth always comes out sooner or later. I actually ended up confronting this guy personally, and I got a dose of rude awakening. Even more so when he shared with me copies of IMs and emails she had been exchanging with him. What hurt the most was some of the lies she was telling him. I confronted her all about this. Anyways, my only recourse was for my own sanity. To end the relationship. My trust was totally distroyed in her. As it turns out she had been telling me a series of lies about this guy as well. Games, Games, and more Games...

A relationship is a relationship even if it's a BDSM D/s lifestyle based one. You have to be able to be honest, to be able to honestly communicate, and do what is right for yourself and your partner. I think this equally applies to both sides of the D/s coin.

If your friendship with this guy is just that, a friendship and it has no ill effects upon the relationship or you, I would not be the type of DOM to insist that you end it. I tend to be guided by some form of realistic ethics and code of conduct.   It would have to be unhealthy for you or for us.   That's my response to your lines of questioning here.

Personally, I would not be content to be single just because I have a good friend, even if it was a friend with benefits. I've actually been trying to drive this idea into my last Ex's mindset. That we are friends now, but without the benefits (sex).   I tend to follow my own emotions, ethics and morals. It's very seldom I don't because results in causing myself inner turmoil, pain and suffering.

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RE: Love or some thing like it. - 9/24/2008 2:50:44 AM

silkncarol

Posts: 318
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bluefireroses

Have you found yourself more content to be single because you have a such a good friend?
Not necessarily "more content"...but being single was easier because i knew i had someone on back-up for emotional support.

Would you as a sub/slave feel comfortable obeying such a demand?
This is one of those orders i'd have to dicuss with my Dominant......friends and loyalty are important to me; i would need to understand why he wished me to cut them from my life....for my own good,(if he felt it was an unhealthy relationship) or for his own issues with ego or insecurities.......

Has having that person in your life somehow influence your relationship, no matter how unintentional?
Yes, if i still held a romantic thread with someone i couldn't or wouldn't open myself up to the new person and possibilities of a new relationship. You can't move forward in life if you're still anchored in your past.....

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RE: Love or some thing like it. - 9/24/2008 6:52:03 AM

scarlethiney

Posts: 492
Joined: 8/22/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bluefireroses

It is very rare that I open myself up in relationships to the point where the other person can understand me fully. Part of it is because I have been in the lifestyle and many people don't understand it's dynamic or effects that a D/s relationship can have on you.

It is far easier for me to respect someone then to trust them. Usually, I have to love that person (friendship, romantic, or similar) before I can trust them. Many of the people I've dated have said I'm 'confusing' and give mixed signals, while the people with whom I've opened up to can simply look at me to know what I am thinking. This not only frustrates potential partners, but I some times will become upset when I can't convey an idea or feeling that I am having properly.

Since I've reached that level of comfort with so few people, it is a thousand times harder for me to turn my back on that relationship. For example, I have been off and on with a guy...who is not into D/s...for about 4 years. We bring out the best and the worst in eachother but we can't completely end our relationship. (Perhaps neither of us want to). We both recognize that we are better off as friends and have maintained our relationship at that level.

Several questions have popped into my mind, even in rereading what I wrote.

Have any of you experienced the same kind of experiences?
Have you found yourself more content to be single because you have a such a good friend?
Would you as a Dom/Master order your sub/slave to end any type of friendship with said person?
Would you as a sub/slave feel comfortable obeying such a demand?
Has having that person in your life somehow influence your relationship, no matter how unintentional?

I feel for you. I think the paradox is that no matter how bad things get or how difficult the relationship is all the advice in the world, even a demand will not , cannot make you end this relationship until you yourself are ready to go there. Sometimes it's takes years and years but one day you will get to a point where this relationship just doesn't hold the same fascination for you it once did.
I realize it seems as though that will never happen but it will. The relationship I had like this lasted 5 yrs. A very, very long 5yrs.
As I grew and worked on myself I begin to lose interest in that part of me that needed this person and the conflict and the need to try to repeatedly salvage something from it. It wasn't ever going to work and was indeed holding me back from opportunties much better suited to me. The blessing that does come from these types of relationships is a self confidence and assertion that you deserve better.
I did get past it and I believe you will too.
Great post! Good luck.

scarlet

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RE: Love or some thing like it. - 9/24/2008 8:52:53 AM

bluefireroses

Posts: 37
Joined: 8/22/2008
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Thank you all for relpying. :o)

It appears to me that this is some thing that resonates in at least a few people.

Whiplash- your situation sounds truly difficult. I do not condone hiding one person from the other and would not do so. You brought up an interesting point about wanting to understand your partner, and now I'm wondering if it isn't more of a chicken and egg thing within my relationships.

Carol- I think the line that stood out to me was that you can't move forward in life if you're still anchored in your past. While this particular person is mostly a good friend, without the benefits it has taken a long time for me to not hold romantic feelings for him.

Scarlet- I agree some times when you grow as a person, you realize the other person doesn't compliment you anymore. When the relationship doesn't hold the same value for you, it fizzles and there isn't the distress caused by not having the other person around.

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RE: Love or some thing like it. - 9/24/2008 9:04:32 AM

thetammyjo

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I read the OP twice and I'm not sure I understand what is being asked so my reply may be odd.

I have amazing trust issues because of my childhood... I will probably always have them I can just see them better now and hopefully make better decisions.

Emotional connection though isn't limited to romantic love for me but trust seems the same regardless of what I feel. So does having trust betrayed.

I have veto power over who my slave sees and plays with but so far I've only used it rarely -- that's at the initial "I think I may want to" stage of things. I have never told him to end a relationship with his family of origin though I suspect it is borderline healthy for him. This is because I want him to learn to take care of himself as I've had to learn to do emotionally. I would never order him to interact with someone he had strong negative reactions to or trust issues with -- again I want him to be able to take care of himself because I could always get hit by a car tomorrow and he needs to be able to do that.

I need to be able to do all this emotional stuff on my own too cause tomorrow I could end up without my family from an accident as well.

It isn't easy and I don't think how you are is a paradox at all, bluefireroses, for those with similar backgrounds and reactions to the world.

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RE: Love or some thing like it. - 9/24/2008 9:44:53 AM

shivermetimbers

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I'm not sure I'm answering your question, but from how I understood you:

I would never want my partner to stop communication with anyone, because it's part of her life, part of who she is. It may have been an ex lover, or just a long time friend, but either way, I trust her completely, and have no jealousy issues. I still talk about a woman I loved, though we no longer communicate. It doesn't threaten her either. We both are unique and wonderful to each other, and what others have meant to us in the past, what we gained from those relationships, only enhances our relationship. We can look back, and take the best of every relationship, and avoid the worst part of those relationships. It's a life growth experience that both of us bring to the table, and I think that makes our relationship so much healthier.

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RE: Love or some thing like it. - 9/24/2008 9:50:35 AM

lizcgirl

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I had a similiar situation come to an end a few weeks ago. There's a man, J, that I have loved for 14 years that I was convinced I could never live without. I trust him completely and I just adore him. We can't be together at the moment and we tried the long distance thing but it just didn't work for us. When I met my Master I told Him all about J because I wanted to be totally honest with Him. He didn't tell me to stop keeping in contact with J, in fact He encouraged me to continue to write him. If He had tried to tell me I had to end it with J, I probably would have walked away. I wasn't ready to let him go yet. I spoke with J for the first time in over 8 months a couple of weeks ago and it was a terribly awkward and uncomfortable conversation. We were both trying to talk like we used to, but it just wasn't working. When we finally gave up, he told me he loves me and I couldn't say it back. The silence told both of us what I hadn't been ready to admit to even myself: I love him, I always will, but I'm not in love with him any more. I clung to him so long like a life raft to keep me afloat through all the terrible times in my life because I needed him, and he needed me too. But something changed and we realized we can live without each other. It was sad in a way because I think neither of us had really been in love with each other for a LONG time but we just didn't want to admit it. The truth of that didn't come to light until we found people we are in love with and we could let go of the memory of each other. I will always care for him, he's my best friend, but we don't need each other any more like we used to. It happens and you just have to let it run it's course- if you try to force it sometimes you wind up clinging to it even more out of stubbornness.

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RE: Love or some thing like it. - 9/24/2008 12:14:30 PM

djaleksandr

Posts: 203
Joined: 3/10/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiplashSmile2
I was involved in a 4 1/2 year Love/Hate relationship. She was my best friend and worse enemy. The paradox is normally we are our own worst enemy, however without a question she would surpass this at times. This relationship was not a healthy one, and I can see it even more clearly that time has passed. I'm still working past some of the issues/damages caused from this unhealthy relationship. It's taken me awhile to be able to trust somebody like I should.

It was extremely hard and difficult for me to turn my back on that relationship, however I had reached a limit. When I reached that limit it literally felt like something deep inside of me breaking and snapping hard. It's rather hard to break away from somebody who is your best friend as well as worst enemy at times. The Super Good sides of the relationship keep you holding on. It's one big emotional "love rollercoaster", I'm not talking about the Red Hot Chilli Peppers remake of that song either.

I have been in exactly this position.

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the narrowest path is always the holiest.
so walk on barefoot for me,
suffer some misery,
if you want my love.'
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RE: Love or some thing like it. - 9/24/2008 12:29:28 PM

FRSguy

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I make it a really big point never ever to have anything to do with woman in your situation....lol

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RE: Love or some thing like it. - 9/24/2008 12:39:38 PM

WinsomeDefiance

Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bluefireroses

Have any of you experienced the same kind of experiences?
Have you found yourself more content to be single because you have a such a good friend?
Would you as a Dom/Master order your sub/slave to end any type of friendship with said person?
Would you as a sub/slave feel comfortable obeying such a demand?
Has having that person in your life somehow influence your relationship, no matter how unintentional?

Hello bluefireroses,

Yes, I've found myself content to be single because of my good friend/fuck buddy. We lived together for 2 years, and maintained a friendship over the last 5 years. When I start getting 'restless' I'll call him up, or when he is he'll call me. We get together a few times a month, sometimes for sex sometimes just to hang out together, see a movie, cuddle, dine out etc.. It isn't an ideal relationship, and I'd like more for myself, but it is convenient and it is uncomplicated which works for me. I've become pretty resigned with the realizaton that I don't have the resources to actively search for anything more in my life.

I can be a rather reserved person, and it can take quite a bit of time and determination to really get to know me. Which probably explains why I have so few in my life I would personally consider a close and personal friends, and why I would be very saddened to lose one such if I was put into a position where I had to make a decision between him and a more fulfilling relationship.

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RE: Love or some thing like it. - 9/24/2008 1:49:15 PM

VivaciousSub

Posts: 446
Joined: 9/7/2008
From: Tampa, FL
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quote:

I feel for you. I think the paradox is that no matter how bad things get or how difficult the relationship is all the advice in the world, even a demand will not , cannot make you end this relationship until you yourself are ready to go there. Sometimes it's takes years and years but one day you will get to a point where this relationship just doesn't hold the same fascination for you it once did.

A lot of people surrounding this type of relationship aren't very supportive when it ends, either. I remember a friend of mine who was in a stormy relationship that was terribly unhealthy. They were together for 5 years, and he told me after they broke up that I was the only one who didn't say "you finally dumped that bitch? great!". Instead, when I heard the news, I told him that I was sorry to see him upset and that it must have been very hard to split with her.

Keeping that paradox in mind when dealing with other people in relationships can only be helpful.

If you do need to instruct your sub to dismiss a friend due to unhealthy behavior, be sure to support them. They'll grieve for it no matter how bad it was, cause they're losing a person that they shared serious history with.

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RE: Love or some thing like it. - 9/25/2008 1:46:10 AM

cravesdom

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I have remained good friends with men that I have dated and even submitted to. I have never had a Dom or boyfriend ask me to end those relationships. I have also never felt more comfortable being single because of those friendships, but I sure did appreciate that I had them when I was hurting from a breakup. Personally, if I were asked to end a relationship with a friend that I did not feel was detrimental to me, I would be very upset. And in that case, it would affect my relationship. I would wonder if he was insecure or possibly trying to be too controlling.

My love knows that I am friends with men I have dated. He also knows I am friends with men I have not dated, but who might want to sleep with me if they had the chance. He also knows that I want him, not them. He trusts me to make the right decisions. And if he were to meet up with a past lover and want to resume a friendship with her, I would have no issues with that either. I see it like this, there is a reason they are no longer together. There is a reason I am no longer with my past boyfriends and Doms. If I were foolish enough to want to take the chance that I would lose the most wonderful man I have ever been with for someone who couldn't make me happy the first time around, then I deserve to lose him. And I am not that foolish.

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RE: Love or some thing like it. - 9/25/2008 3:47:43 AM

DesFIP

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First off, I don't know where you got the idea that love cannot exist inside a d/s relationship. Because that's just wrong.

As far as staying in a relationship which is bad for you, the term here is codependent.

Suggestion: Break it off with this dude as soon as possible, spend six months without any relationship, no dating, nada. Spend the six months at ACOA meetings, the more the merrier. Interview therapists and start doing the work needed.

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