RE: unlearning behaviours

RE: unlearning behaviours (Full Version)

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LadyAngelika -> RE: unlearning behaviours (8/5/2004 3:30:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: afmvdp But I find submissive typing erotic...I think I need to find an accountant. haha You must just love the film Secretary - LA

wyldhearted -> RE: unlearning behaviours (8/11/2004 10:18:13 PM)
I was very happy to be browsing the forums and to find this post. Your words speaking of unlearning behaviors were words that Master and I were just discussing. I would like to ask how fellow submissives have best found to deal with unlearning damage from bad experiences. The physical markings, bruises etc fade and heal so much more quickly than any emotional/psychological damage that we unfortunately do incur at times. How do we best face things that perhaps trigger us to feel fear, to feel uncertainty...how have you found best to let go of that lingering bitterness? This is an excellent topic as I know personally as well as many people within the community that have been faced with the very same problems. The lifestyle is not the easiest path for a person to chose. Relationships do unfortunately come and go...with the intensity of emotional attachment and devotion that is involved in a BDSM relationship of any shape or form how does one walk away wholly healed? Curious about the responses to the rambling thoughts... Respectfully, morgan

SherriA -> RE: unlearning behaviours (8/12/2004 2:17:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: wyldhearted How do we best face things that perhaps trigger us to feel fear, to feel uncertainty...how have you found best to let go of that lingering bitterness? A good therapist. (This, of course, assumes that these are issues that you're unable to wrap your head around yourself. My therapist used to tell me I should get half her fee, because I wouldn't come to her with things until I had already worked them pretty much out for myself, and just wanted validation from her that I was on the right track.)

afmvdp -> RE: unlearning behaviours (8/12/2004 7:14:10 AM)
haha...indeed a rather humorous movie to see someone make a hyperbole of things that you know you had previously done. As when I saw that it was a treat night for my sub at the time. Ended up a fun couple of nights after the fact though.

yoursMaam -> RE: unlearning behaviours (8/12/2004 8:23:52 AM)
Dear Lady Angelika, What i am is the sum total of my past experience and education and environment. Unlearning is like trying to put toothpaste back in the tube. This is not a bad thing though, i have learned some interesting things. The most important lesson that i have gotten, which has been repeated, and greatly reinforced by Dominants and Vanilla partners as well, is focus. At this moment in time, the only things that exists in my world are You and i. Everything else is a distraction, and is dismissed. With practice that moment can be extended, and like liquid, can take form around reality, and distractions that don't lend themselves to being dismissed. All that exists in the world is You and i, and i am Yours, Ma'am. Everything before that, after that and in between that is of no consequence. in my humble opinion, that is submission.

NightDaughter -> RE: unlearning behaviours (8/12/2004 8:28:39 AM)
Well i don't know if behavious can be unlearned, but I do know that they can be modified and new ones learned. I can say that there are many things that I have learned over the years some of which I will struggle for the rest of my life to deal with, then there are things that where cramed into my brain of things that I was told I needed to learn if I was to avoid always getting into trouble (to this i will say that abuse can and does have lasting harm, that can take years to over come if not a lifetime.) My Master himself is very supportive of some of the responces that I have to various words and actions, many of which I do not know about until they take place, at which time its to late its been dun. But each time he nad I learn more about some things that I do. And over the past while we have managed to get a few of my responces not so out there as they use to be. Regardless of if the behaviour has been learned though necessity or from some other source its learned, thus if learned it can be modified with enough time (maybe not unlearned, but modifited deffently, at least in my opinion that is the case).

LadyAngelika -> RE: unlearning behaviours (8/13/2004 3:27:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: yoursMaam Dear Lady Angelika, What i am is the sum total of my past experience and education and environment. Unlearning is like trying to put toothpaste back in the tube. This is not a bad thing though, i have learned some interesting things. The most important lesson that i have gotten, which has been repeated, and greatly reinforced by Dominants and Vanilla partners as well, is focus. At this moment in time, the only things that exists in my world are You and i. Everything else is a distraction, and is dismissed. With practice that moment can be extended, and like liquid, can take form around reality, and distractions that don't lend themselves to being dismissed. All that exists in the world is You and i, and i am Yours, Ma'am. Everything before that, after that and in between that is of no consequence. in my humble opinion, that is submission. yoursMaam, First, for our readers, you were speaking figuratively. The letter was addressed to me and you spoke of "You and i"... I'm assuming you were talking about your existing or potential Domme. Right? And unfortunately, though what you propose is a lovely ideal and can happen for a split second in time, even the deepest meditation and focus can not wash away everything before that moment. Some stuff runs very deep. - LA

LadyAngelika -> RE: unlearning behaviours (8/13/2004 3:36:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NightDaughter Regardless of if the behaviour has been learned though necessity or from some other source its learned, thus if learned it can be modified with enough time (maybe not unlearned, but modifited deffently, at least in my opinion that is the case). Teaching a new behaviour takes skill and depending on the student and the behaviour to learn, in my experience, not such a difficult task. Then again, I tend to pick those who are open minded, who may show a little resistance but are not stubborn and who ultimately want to learn. My issue here is when the new behaviour contradicts directly with the old behaviour. My original example was of a man I met and discussed with who's 3 previous Mistresses who he was in a 24/7 live in exchange. (Note that when he came to me, it was on the basis that I didn’t want 24/7 and that he no longer wanted 24/7). His previous Dommes would never ever let him penetrate them and made him a cuckold. He was however made to penetrate submissive women (like that took much coaxing, huh??). He enjoyed it obviously. I told him that I did let my submissive men penetrate me and he looked terrified at the though. The new behaviour was in direct conflict with the old one, hence there was unlearning to do. Since my original post, I have ended discussions with this man deeming that there are too many irreconcilable differences in our ideologies and needs. Thanks for all your inputs. It has shed light but the question however still remains unanswered for me… It may always remain that way. - LA

yoursMaam -> RE: unlearning behaviours (8/14/2004 3:39:31 AM)
quote: yoursMaam, First, for our readers, you were speaking figuratively. The letter was addressed to me and you spoke of "You and i"... I'm assuming you were talking about your existing or potential Domme. Right? And unfortunately, though what you propose is a lovely ideal and can happen for a split second in time, even the deepest meditation and focus can not wash away everything before that moment. Some stuff runs very deep. - LA Dear Lady Angelika, Yes Ma'am i apologize for the ambiguity of "You and i" it was an effort to describe a relationship between 2 people. i have not had privilege, honor or good fortune to meet You personally. i agree that it is impossible to completely block out the past. it is, after all, what makes You, You. What is an irrelevant intrusion, is the guy who cuts one off on the way to see You (always figurative in this note). The business meeting one is worried about coming tomorrow, or even, "how am i doing with Her(or Him) do i have a future? There is time when one's mind should be focused on what is, not what was, not what might or will be. Yes, Ma'am it can be hard to capture, hard to maintain, and hard to train a sub to do. But, did You hit what You intended to the first time You used a whip? Do You now find it a useful and entertaining part of Your repertoire? (If You are not amused by whips, insert Flogger, Paddle, or any device wi

LadyAngelika -> RE: unlearning behaviours (8/14/2004 4:00:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: yoursMaam Dear Lady Angelika, Yes Ma'am i apologize for the ambiguity of "You and i" it was an effort to describe a relationship between 2 people. i have not had privilege, honor or good fortune to meet You personally. yoursMaam… First off, thanks for the clarification. quote: ORIGINAL: yoursMaam i agree that it is impossible to completely block out the past. it is, after all, what makes You, You. What is an irrelevant intrusion, is the guy who cuts one off on the way to see You (always figurative in this note). The business meeting one is worried about coming tomorrow, or even, "how am i doing with Her(or Him) do i have a future? There is time when one's mind should be focused on what is, not what was, not what might or will be. Yes, Ma'am it can be hard to capture, hard to maintain, and hard to train a sub to do. But, did You hit what You intended to the first time You used a whip? Do You now find it a useful and entertaining part of Your repertoire? (If You are not amused by whips, insert Flogger, Paddle, or any device wi I’m not sure I get the second bit of your post however, not to mention that it was truncated it seems. I can’t speak for other Dominants, but I, for one, am not into robots. I expect to be dealing with a living, breathing submissive filled with emotions, energy, a past, an opinion and a life that they lead which is out of my control. My job is not to program but rather to guide. My submissives are not my slaves, nor my children, nor my property. They are independent adults that chose to submit to me at a certain given time. My way of doing things is probably very different from the way a lot of people do it around here and that is totally fine with me. I figure we all have to get out of it what we want. And who knows, one day my views may change and I may take on a full time slave but for the moment, I simply do not have the time, energy and motivation to do so. My way of doing things is just as legitimate in terms of BDSM as any one else’s mind you and the fact that I don’t want to own my submissive’s mind doesn’t make the dynamic lesser then. The issue that I’m looking at here is behaviour modification. I guess from my perspective, I’m looking for ways to persuade. I always found the carrot worked better then the stick. Though I’m damn evil bitch with the stick (or whip), I don’t want a dynamic where I’m constantly punishing. Too much negative energy takes the fun out of it. So I will continue to explore ways of unlearning behaviours. One I’m working on now is a submissive girl who fears canes because of the way they were used on her in the past… this should be fun <wg> - LA

Madame -> RE: unlearning behaviours (8/14/2004 4:51:19 AM)
In our Home .. the system to change a habit I don't like is a wooden spoon. Infactions are corrected at that moment.. balls or cock presented for wacking. It is consistancy that works ..

LadyAngelika -> RE: unlearning behaviours (8/14/2004 10:31:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Madame In our Home .. the system to change a habit I don't like is a wooden spoon. Infactions are corrected at that moment.. balls or cock presented for wacking. It is consistancy that works .. And how do they communicate when they want you to change a habit? - LA

Sinergy -> RE: unlearning behaviours (8/14/2004 12:17:33 PM)
quote: And how do they communicate when they want you to change a habit? - LA Presumably by giving her the wooden spoon. Duh. JM, CBW, BTYG Sinergy

LadyAngelika -> RE: unlearning behaviours (8/14/2004 2:38:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy quote: And how do they communicate when they want you to change a habit? - LA Presumably by giving her the wooden spoon. Duh. JM, CBW, BTYG Sinergy Ha! Ha! Ha! But seriously. My original post wasn't presuming that only subs needed behaviour mods. - LA

stormiKnightBEAR -> RE: unlearning behaviours (8/14/2004 9:14:10 PM)
Unlearning behaviors stormi has been thru what at times seems alot of that in the last 18 months or so. Learning to live as a Gorean slave vs. a Leather slave. Having worn 2 collars as a submissive in the past, stormi was allowed her will, meaning since they were not 24/7 stormi could pretty much do what she wanted with her own time. As long as she was available as required by the Dom. As a slave, stormi at times struggles with the will of doing things. Combining things to kill two birds with one stone so to speak. Over anticipating somethings and missing simple anticipation at times. Tho getting better at realizing that Master is in control of this girl's free will as Master and stormi agreed...... and not second guessing or giving into the free will. It's been a hard behavior for stormi to break. Please do not misunderstand, stormi is a happy slave, and willingly gives herself, her will, and all to Master. But yes it is tough to "unlearn" Respectfully, stormi property of Master Bear

yoursMaam -> RE: unlearning behaviours (8/14/2004 10:04:22 PM)
Dear Lady Angelika, My humblest apologies for having been truncated. i am not inclined to create robots or to become a robot. the point that i am trying to convey, from the standpoint of a Domme (or Dom), is to focus the sub's attention. Simply stated, take the sub's face in your hand, fix the sub's gaze until they can not look away, and in one's most sultry, command voice something like, "you are here with Me now. Where you have been in the past has no bearing, and your future depends strongly on your focus right now." Delivered convincingly, The Domme (or Dom) will have the sub's undivided attention. This will not unteach behaviour, but will focus the learned behaviour onto the Dominant, and give room to redirect the outcome. This actually removes the "robot" effect, and tells the sub that each Dominant has different wants, needs and desires. It also leaves the Dominant free to change the pace, or nature of a developing and growing (as they all should always be) relationship. i, again, offer apologies for any ambiguity, and say that yes, each of us finds our own answers in our own way. were it not for our differences, what a boring world it could be. Yours, Ma'am

LadyAngelika -> RE: unlearning behaviours (8/15/2004 8:05:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: yoursMaam Simply stated, take the sub's face in your hand, fix the sub's gaze until they can not look away, and in one's most sultry, command voice something like, "you are here with Me now. Where you have been in the past has no bearing, and your future depends strongly on your focus right now." Delivered convincingly, The Domme (or Dom) will have the sub's undivided attention. If only it were that simple. But then again, I tend not to hook up with simple people. Does that speak of a masochist side in me?

yoursMaam -> RE: unlearning behaviours (8/15/2004 10:02:09 PM)
Cher Lady Angelika, Charmant. Rarely have i talked my way into so eloquently being called simple. Merci, mille fois for having tickled my masochistic streak. YoursMaam

Madame -> RE: unlearning behaviours (8/19/2004 1:28:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrThorns quote: ORIGINAL: afmvdp I have 50 starter rules and a 4 page personalized plan for new living Wow - Really? Wow! Are there many good males subs out there with enough free time to follow more Rules than a 50's Mom AND retype them? Mine is working overtime for the money . That's My kinda busy work! LOL...it was just an example. Trying to keep it as simple as possible... ~Thorns

afmvdp -> RE: unlearning behaviours (8/19/2004 1:33:38 PM)
haha...yes but then again I'm an "extremist" so don't mind me. ;) Actually I'm in process of slimming it down to 25 set rules and then rest going into the new life guidelines which at current point is up to 6 pages. It's not limits or structures, it's a new way of living alltogether giving step by step instructions on the new way to do everything from eat, sleep, drink, and just about everything else.

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