Choice vs. Fate (Full Version)

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KittenWithaTwist -> Choice vs. Fate (12/2/2005 9:24:00 AM)

I find that both "choice" and "fate" have a place in how we define our sexuality. In choosing to be submissive, or dominant we put a message out to the world that says "Yes, I'm _____, and I'm not going to change that for you, to fit in to your definition of the world." When we are fated to be submissive or dominant, our message reads "Yes, I'm _____, I can't help it. You need to tolerate me the way I am."

I've used both choice and fate to describe who I am as a switch. In the great big world, where dom and sub and switch are frowned upon, I am often more inclined to say that I just happened to turn out this way. I can't make it stop and it won't go away on it's own. So accept it.

In a way, what I say is true.

But in my own small BDSM community, I know that regardless of whether I am born this way or not, I still have a very important choice to make. The choice to be who I am, or the choice to overcome it or put it aside. I've faced these choices before, and said "No, I won't put you before my nature." Were these the wrong choices?

This post was inspired by another, where I mentioned that I do D/s because it pleases me. Which is definitely true. Despite emotional struggles and philosophical questions, D/s pleases me. I also said that when D/s ceases to please me, I'll stop. That's probably true, as well. I'd like to think that I'm intelligent enough to know when to stop. It hasn't come yet. It may never.

My point is: Whether you're destined to be dom/sub/switch, or not, you will always have the choice to say "I want to explore this" or "I don't want to explore this." Forget needing to, it doesn't matter.



thetammyjo -> RE: Choice vs. Fate (12/2/2005 9:30:52 AM)

I agree.

We can chose how and if we act on our desires and how we play out our personalities.

I would say one of the first choices we make is are we doing this as BDSM (with consent and all that learning and time) or are we just doing what we want to whomever we want (and risking charged with a crime at some point in the future.

There are a multitude of choices we make every day ever if we think the choices are terrible they are still choices.



IrishMist -> RE: Choice vs. Fate (12/2/2005 10:15:30 AM)

I agree also. It is by choice that we live the way we do, whether it be as Dominant/Sub/Slave/Switch. While we may feel the 'need', it is by choice that we act upon it, in any direction that we choose it to go.



Littlepita -> RE: Choice vs. Fate (12/2/2005 10:50:58 AM)

I think it was fate that brought me to my Sir. I think it is my choice to submit to him and this lifestyle.



tasha_tart -> RE: Choice vs. Fate (12/2/2005 11:07:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: KittenWithaTwist

But in my own small BDSM community, I know that regardless of whether I am born this way or not, I still have a very important choice to make. The choice to be who I am, or the choice to overcome it or put it aside. I've faced these choices before, and said "No, I won't put you before my nature." Were these the wrong choices?


Speaking only for myself, I've found that in the long run trying to suppress one's nature is not going to succeed.

Having entered a "vanilla" marriage in my twenties, I was determined to put aside my femme side, and my submissive side. I was reasonably successful in this for several years, but ultimately I failed, as did the marriage. This is a very brief summary of course.

Was I weak, in being unable to turn off part of me on a permanent basis? Perhaps.

Was I foolish to have thought that I could? As life has unfolded, it certainly seems so.

Would I try that again? As much as I find it difficult to share that part of me at times, I would never enter another relationship the same way. I know that, for me, it doesn't work.

Am I happier now that I am considerably more free (not entirley by choice, LOL) to give expression to those parts of myself? Yes and no. I am much more comfortable about who I am, and have some truly wonderful friends who acept me as I am. I do miss having someone to share my life with; I had that, and blew it, and the likelihood of finding it again is slim.

Again, this is just me. I won't speculate on others' choices or their hardwired needs.

Tasha



afmvdp -> RE: Choice vs. Fate (12/2/2005 11:08:17 AM)

I tend to feel that the word "fate" is far to fanciful of a term when people really are refering to their genetics or societal upbringings that often are passed of as pure chance.

Man is master of his own fate, so saying fate and choice is rather redundant is it not?

I am what I am because I was born this way. I follow the path that brings the most fulfillment to my life. So how can this be considered fate or choice, when I am doing what is bred into my by year and years of ancestors. I guess the "choice" is to do what you enjoy regardless of the misleading pressures of a supposedly moralist world but considering your options, only a fool or the most genuine of masochists would follow the path of absolution.




slavejali -> RE: Choice vs. Fate (12/2/2005 11:13:19 AM)

i think we are all fated to the rhythm our lives are gonna take but make conscious choices as to how we are gonna dance to that rhythm.

Poetic huh.



afmvdp -> RE: Choice vs. Fate (12/2/2005 11:16:23 AM)

poetic indeed.

But what does it say about a man like myself who only plays lifes chords in a Mixolydian scale? haha



afmvdp -> RE: Choice vs. Fate (12/2/2005 11:26:04 AM)

seeing as you don't know me, and obviously are unaware of just how serious I take my stance regardless of the askew diversions to nature that the "modern" world presents, I'm going to avoid starting a flame war and simply state that not all those of similar desires come to the same road from the same origin. I speak for myself and my own beliefs only and will stand by them absolutely.

Now if you'd actually like to debate the issue, feel free to continue. I'd e MORE than happy to elaborate.

(haha, I knew it wouldn't be long before I'd get my chance to rant on here again)



ExistentialSteel -> RE: Choice vs. Fate (12/2/2005 11:28:00 AM)

We are coded genetically to behave in certain ways to a degree. Sure, experience means a lot, but we all don't start out with the same blank page.



girl4you2 -> RE: Choice vs. Fate (12/2/2005 12:26:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: afmvdp
poetic indeed.
But what does it say about a man like myself who only plays lifes chords in a Mixolydian scale? haha

i suppose it means that you will find yourself moving to/playing life based upon a diatonic scale starting on a dominant note, or if you fancy the old greeks, you'll have that inverted hypolydian mode thing, with your descents followed by lydian tetrachords. of course, the greeks did deem that this was unfit for any kind of music, thus they didn't use it much. otherwise, what does it day about a man like yourself?



imtempting -> RE: Choice vs. Fate (12/2/2005 2:14:42 PM)

`Like in T2.

There is not fate, but what we make.


Pro choice.



darkinshadows -> RE: Choice vs. Fate (12/2/2005 2:27:02 PM)

Choice is what we have.
When we make with our Choice, what is fated is the result from that Choice.
Our Fate results in our Destiny.
And Destiny we cannot escape from.

quote:

Destiny is what you are supposed to do in life. Fate is what kicks you in the ass to do it. - Henry Miller


Peace and Love



darkinshadows -> RE: Choice vs. Fate (12/2/2005 2:33:13 PM)

quote:

poetic indeed.

But what does it say about a man like myself who only plays lifes chords in a Mixolydian scale? haha


Talented?[;)]

Ach - a post from the wise!
WB and good to see you posting more again J. Your musings and thoughts have been missed!

Peace and Rapture



slavejali -> RE: Choice vs. Fate (12/2/2005 2:34:50 PM)

This is what id like to say playfully to the people who think they direct their lives entirely...go out and win the lottery today and prove it. Stop someone you love dying. Make it rain cuz you dont want to go to work. umm what else *grin*..i think however we do have the choice in how we deal with each situation that comes our way. (takes her tongue outa her cheek)



Chaingang -> RE: Choice vs. Fate (12/2/2005 2:37:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: afmvdp
Now if you'd actually like to debate the issue, feel free to continue. I'd e MORE than happy to elaborate.


I don't want to debate it, but I would still like to see your more elaborated reply. So if you are of the mind to set it into words, please do so.



IronBear -> RE: Choice vs. Fate (12/2/2005 2:45:52 PM)

Choice and Fate. Hmmm this is a debate which would be worthy of Omar’s comments were he still on this mortal plane.

Choice ~ To choose or select. Yes I’ll make every endeavour to make the most appropriate choice from what I see as viable options. I may not like them nor may I always completely agree with the options presented, I’ll usually choose the one, which takes me closer to where I want to be. Sometimes choices have extreme consequences and sometimes not. My hope is that should I make the wrong choice that others don’t suffer from that choosing . However if you read my comments on the Power Thread, you will understand that I am convinced that we are able to alter or manipulate the options offered for selection and thus keep to our true will.

Fate ~ A Master is indeed the Master of his fate irrespective of lifestyle. For to be a Master is to be the Master of yourself at all levels (Always allowing that some aspects of your inner life will be subject to the ravages of illness etc but even that and the associated pain can be used as a tool to control your being). A master makes a choice, a small one such as to what to eat or a life altering choice and in either case he accepts full responsibility of his choosing and works through each set of problems and difficulties which every choice provides and naturally may chose to reap the rewards from his choice too. Ultimately, a Master’s fate is in accord with his True Will and unless he falters he will achieve his goal or destiny.



Prunesquallor -> RE: Choice vs. Fate (12/2/2005 2:49:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: girl4you2

quote:

ORIGINAL: afmvdp
poetic indeed.
But what does it say about a man like myself who only plays lifes chords in a Mixolydian scale? haha

i suppose it means that you will find yourself moving to/playing life based upon a diatonic scale starting on a dominant note, or if you fancy the old greeks, you'll have that inverted hypolydian mode thing, with your descents followed by lydian tetrachords. of course, the greeks did deem that this was unfit for any kind of music, thus they didn't use it much. otherwise, what does it day about a man like yourself?


Well, I am atonal, not to say dodecaphonic, with more than an element of rhythmical serialism. What does that say about a man like me? If you should know, please don't tell me.



fldrkhorse -> RE: Choice vs. Fate (12/2/2005 2:53:34 PM)

" I yam what I yam." Popeye



darkinshadows -> RE: Choice vs. Fate (12/2/2005 3:03:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

This is what id like to say playfully to the people who think they direct their lives entirely...go out and win the lottery today and prove it. Stop someone you love dying. Make it rain cuz you dont want to go to work. umm what else *grin*..i think however we do have the choice in how we deal with each situation that comes our way. (takes her tongue outa her cheek)


[:D]
Peace and Rapture



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