Careers and submission (Full Version)

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missturbation -> Careers and submission (9/27/2008 8:11:38 PM)

quote:

I have a career which at present is very important to me and i would not consider giving up. 
I run a pub which is very much 24/7 and does make travelling and well in advance plans a little difficult, though not impossible. 


Above is a quote from my profile. It has been there oh for a least the last 9 months. Recently though i have received a tirade of mail having a dig at me for it. 'How dare i claim to be submissive when i won't give up my career for a D type?'. Or 'a submissive should not be holding a dominant position in the work place'. As you can imagine this had me seething. It also got me thinking though!
 
Yesterday i very nearly posted a thread on this subject but for some reason it didn't come about. I think it may have been a connection failure and i couldn't be bothered coming back online, something like that. However this thread would have pretty much gone in the direction of.............
 
Most people work for a living. Some are lucky enough to have jobs they love (like me) and some well pretty much hate their work. In this day and age some men are the big bread winners, some women are and to me it's all good.
 
 I've heard that a lot of submissive men are actually in high powered jobs and therefore surely the same is true for submissive women. I know i'm one of these, i run my own business, have to be dominant for work. In general i love it and have no difficulty in being that dominant boss, but yeah sometimes can be a bit too nice, too submissive about it perhaps.

I have no difficulty in just deleting those mails that claim a submissive should not be in a dominant position at work, or that a submissive should be willing to give up her / his career for a D type. After all it's just an opinion which everyone is entitled to and a case of that person not being a match for me if that is what they require / think.
 
I'm curious though to know if there are many D types who share this thinking. So for the D types do you think an s type shouldn't hold a dominant role in their job? Do you think an s type should be willing to give up their career for you? Has this ever happened?
 
For the s types do you think you should / would give up your career for your D type? Have you given up your career for a D type? Do you have a dominant role in your job? Are you comfy with it? 
 
This is where this thread would have ended yesterday. However since when were things that simple? Today i have been feeling really down about the amount of time my Sir and i get to spend together. It is usually about once every two weeks i see him and its for between 24 - 48 hours. We live about 2& 1/2 hours apart and both have demanding jobs. I run a pub which is pretty much 24/7 and he's in the army which is pretty much the same.
 
Recently though our respective careers have been very demanding and we havent been able to communicate as much as we normally would. He has been away on a week long course and the camp he was staying on had a crap mobile reception. I've been buried in plans for a refurb and some trouble surrounding the pub. It has led Sir to state today that though he doesn't want to lose me he feels maybe i need someone who can devote more time to me. He feels guilty that he has not been readily available recently. I feel a little neglected, lonely and miss him desperately.
 
Now i know that it is just temporary that we have limited contact but it is more than likely going to be a recurrent issue. We are both bound to have times we are really busy. It's almost like, sorry no it is that right now our careers are getting in the way. As you all know i'm new to this emotional committed relationship stuff, can i cope with this?
 
It has also occurred to me that if and it's a big if i know, that we decide in the future to move in together, it would more than likely be me that would have to do the moving. He can't particularly control where he is based, i can control a little better where i run a pub. What if i can't get a pub in his local area though? Would i be prepared to give up my career? I know i could just go with the flow, see where this goes, cross the bridge when i come to it. But if i'm not prepared to give my career up is there any point in carrying on?
 
Wow this emotional committed relationship stuff in hard and at times really sucks !!



LadyLupineNYC -> RE: Careers and submission (9/27/2008 8:17:58 PM)

Only twue D-types would have this issue...

But seriously, some might have a relationship where this is worked out as part of the dynamic, but, as with anything relating to the scene, I expect you will find everyone along the spectrum.  Personally- my slave is more than ok to work.  But the thought occurs that maybe the ‘expectation’ of a male slave to support the Mistress is similar to the make Master supporting the female slave…interesting…both situations would call for the man to work for the woman…but I digress….  



WyldHrt -> RE: Careers and submission (9/27/2008 8:34:28 PM)

quote:

Wow this emotional committed relationship stuff in hard and at times really sucks !!

*hugs* Yeah, it can be a bitch. That said, this (Ds' opinions of subs who take charge in the workplace aside) seems like more of a relationship issue than a D/s one to me. Vanilla couples face the same thing when both have a career, esp when one or the other must relocate for them to be together.



DominaErotica00 -> RE: Careers and submission (9/27/2008 8:49:23 PM)

I don't see a problem with a sub wanting to hold onto their careers if they have top position in the workforce. The subs career could be the balance, financial necessity or career fulfillment that they need or want in their lives and giving up that control while they are with their top should not pose a problem. Even though I clearly understand the dynamics of totally dominating a sub across the board in their lifestyle, sometimes these arrangements work for some.
 
I also feel some Dommes get intimidated or get their egos bruised because the subs career is one aspect in the subs life they have "no" control over. There are some situations where the sub would give up their careers willingly and the top will support them and the household, of course with a level of understanding and no regrets....Just as a male sub has a dominant level career and then afterwards they leave their jobs and go to a Dominant woman, this happen very frequently. As we know the male sub says that they need to flip the script and let someone else take control, it helps to balance them out and gives them sense of relief and pleasure to submit after a hard days work and being in charge. Maybe if you were a male you would not get so much drama! It's a strange double standard...



namelessendthiss -> RE: Careers and submission (9/27/2008 8:52:11 PM)

Is it possible do you think for someone surrendered to complete masocistic slavery to hold down a career?



slaveluci -> RE: Careers and submission (9/27/2008 8:58:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: namelessendthiss

Is it possible do you think for someone surrendered to complete masocistic slavery to hold down a career?

Yep.  Try working my job for awhile and see if it doesn't take serious devotion to masochism.  Aaarrgghhh, some of the dopes I have to deal with[:@] and the screaming little ones[image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m22.gif[/image].  It hurts real bad[8D]....................luci



VampiresLair -> RE: Careers and submission (9/27/2008 8:58:35 PM)

I am with Fox while he finishes school. I expect him to go on and have a career in teaching, as planned. I would be very disappointed if he DIDNT have a career since he spent so long and so much on school.
And he is about as surrendered to complete masochistic slavery as one can get... but that doesnt change the fact that he is putting in  lot of work and time to advance his knowledge to make a better life for himself and me. Why would I want my slave not to have a career of his own which would benefit me?

DV



UmbraDomina -> RE: Careers and submission (9/27/2008 9:05:13 PM)

My beloved hubbypet is a upper level executive, with a large firm, I am a business owner. Both of us have/and have had demanding positions all our lives. The only way that will change is if we win the powerball lottery and buy a small tropical island.  Our jobs do not define us, nor our job choices. Tell anyone who says that your job, or choice of job defines you to bugger off.




SrchngCpl73112 -> RE: Careers and submission (9/27/2008 9:16:22 PM)

BRAVO!
It's nice to see a post that really touches our everyday life! This just happens to hit a little closer to home for us than maybe for others. My wonderful s/o has always been in a "power" position and does a GREAT job. In contrast, I happen to have a position that could be seen as "service". So this is a huge switch from our personal lives. Just because "m" is in a powerful position, this doesn't make her any less submissive. I think that it's about WHO she chooses to give her submission to and not about everything about her being is screaming "submission". With me being in more of a service related career, I don't think that it makes me any less of a dominant person. I'm just lucky enough to have the other half of my soul choose to give her submission to me.

As for anyone that would bash for the job that you have, seeing it as a conflict between your career and your personality as a submissive......sod 'em! Be yourself! Be who you are and do what you love. As a fellow countryman of yours once said, "To thineown self be true!"

hats off to you,
D (of "D&m" fame)



cravesdom -> RE: Careers and submission (9/27/2008 10:03:42 PM)

I definitely do not see anything wrong with a submissive holding a more dominant job. Or vice versa. Just because I choose to submit to one person, does not mean I submit to everyone. In the past, I gave up a very nice career for a Dom who ended up being nothing like he had portrayed himself. Does that mean I wouldn't give up my current job and move halfway across the country for the man I love? No, not at all. I will just make sure this time that I am much better prepared for that and much more sure of who he is and where our relationship is going before I do it.

As for the committed relationship, I wouldn't give up on it. There are always going to be times in any relationship where you don't have quite as much time as you might like for each other. That is very normal. And the distance will definitely make that even more difficult. But if that is the only thing that is a problem, be happy and deal with it as best you can until you have more time together. It will be worth it in the end.

Just my 2 cents worth.



VivaciousSub -> RE: Careers and submission (9/27/2008 10:46:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

For the s types do you think you should / would give up your career for your D type? Have you given up your career for a D type? Do you have a dominant role in your job? Are you comfy with it?


I don't think I should give up my career for my D type simply because that would smack of having to do something that someone other than Him expected. That's as silly as saying I should submit, because I'm a woman. That said, I would be unlikely to get involved with a D type that wanted me to give up my career, as what I'm training to do (clinical psychologist) is far too important to me. Were W/we to have children, I'd give it up or severely curtail it for a bit to be a stay-at-home mother.

I've never given up my career for any D-type I've had in the past.

I am not working now (god knows, I'm looking...stupid economy!) but in the past I have served as a global operations manager for a multinational pharmaceutical company, and owned my own business. Those roles I was comfortably the leader/dominant/what-have-you and in fact, in work situations I tend to be the one that walks in and gets the reins handed to them. That satisfies me in my professional life, but in my personal life, I am a submissive woman and don't want to run the show. At all. Ugh.

And *hugs* for your relationship situation! I've been there with a former Sir and it was a miserable time for everyone. Relationships are such hard work at times, but so rewarding.



MasterFireMaam -> RE: Careers and submission (9/27/2008 11:24:41 PM)

Would I like the ideal that a slave is willing to give up anything for me? You betcha. It's hot! But, its really not my reality to expect it. What is my reality, however, is to guide the working side of the slave in such a way that is healthy and benificial for them. If I saw that my girl's business was becoming detrimental to her, I'd order her to change it or move on to something else, and I'd expect to be obeyed. I'd know that it'd probably take time for her to extract herself ethically and I'd be patient.

But, over all, I wouldn't expect her to give up her business simply in order to be my slave unless she wanted to do this and I could afford to keep her.

Master Fire



sravaka -> RE: Careers and submission (9/28/2008 12:23:28 AM)

I don't know that I can say anything very helpful, but I feel for you, Missturbation.  I too have a career I would find very difficult to give up, and it distresses me to no end to realize that the options might be confined to 1) ditching it to have the kind of relationship I want or 2) dying alone.  (forgive the melodrama)   I have to say, though, that I think my engagement with and excitement about work is part of what makes me a desirable partner.  I would be far less interesting (I think) if forced to sit around twiddling my thumbs or to take a stupid unfulfilling job for the sake of paying bills.  And I can't say with certainty that I wouldn't end up resenting or otherwise being a pain in the ass for a partner who led me to do so.  As you say, there's a huge difference between working because you have to and working because you love it, and it's really, really hard to think about giving up the latter, given how many hours a day one has to spend gainfully.

I may yet do it...   but I'm certainly thinking in advance about alternative sources of stimulation/fulfillment.   If I may venture a suggestion...   what are possible alternatives to running a pub that could engage you?  (running a coffee shop, or cafe, e.g.? or something farther afield?)  I'm guessing you can't know in advance where your partner might be posted, but if you can? do some research, and find out how plausible it might be to open a pub in that location.  It may be different for you, but getting as much concrete information about such things as possible helps me focus and stay positive & problem solving rather than worried and confused.

Good luck to you!
--sravaka




namelessendthiss -> RE: Careers and submission (9/28/2008 1:22:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

quote:

ORIGINAL: namelessendthiss

Is it possible do you think for someone surrendered to complete masocistic slavery to hold down a career?

Yep.  Try working my job for awhile and see if it doesn't take serious devotion to masochism.  Aaarrgghhh, some of the dopes I have to deal with[:@] and the screaming little ones[image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m22.gif[/image].  It hurts real bad[8D]....................luci


its very possible that i have been working your job (well not exactly obviously, you'd have noticed a strange man following you round all day replicating what you do....) for a while
unless of course by that you mean you're the pied piper of hamlyn!



DesFIP -> RE: Careers and submission (9/28/2008 5:33:57 AM)

Actually, I think you're well matched. Say he had someone who would give up her career for him. Then there he would be, frequently away and knowing she was sitting at home, desperately lonely. Now that's a cause for guilt.

As it is, you both understand each other's lifestyle and can sympathize. And the ability to understand what is going on and not have any resentment about it goes a long way.

If you can give up your career and move without developing resentment, then great. It really is a call that the individual has to make. However in this present economy, jobs are not that easy to find and I would caution anyone about risking their ability to have a roof over their head when there is no guarantee that if things go bad they'll be able to find another job at that level, let alone doing something you enjoy.



OneMoreWaste -> RE: Careers and submission (9/28/2008 7:30:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
 I've heard that a lot of submissive men are actually in high powered jobs


It's actually the expectation, I find. Personally I don't understand why a Dominant would want to play second fiddle to a job, but so it goes... Any male sub who fantasizes about giving up his career to be a full-time slave is generally disillusioned with a quickness.



RealSub58 -> RE: Careers and submission (9/28/2008 7:57:48 AM)

Missturbation,  your post here has allowed me to evaluate some things, just like one that Stella14b wrote a week or 2 back.
 
I will start by saying that a D who says a sub shouldnt have an in control type of management positon as a career is insecure.
A D type who wants the s type to make a relocation to them is overlooking the fact that the s type has some security and confidence other than in the D type and this is another red flag for me.
 
I have no solution for my own situation let alone advice to give another.  I am at those crossroads where I am happy that I have not vested the dependent, emotional, love sort of stuff in the committment I have made with Sir.  Altho I think I share everything with him there is part of me that has not opened up, for fear of rejection and not wanting to be hurt again.  I am at the point now, where I must, sooner is better than later, share with him my thoughts, if only to clear my own mind and heart of these issues.
 
Your thoughts are much appreciated in this post.  I have listened to others, as well as my sister and therapist who are more vested in me than my Sir, only because they have known me far longer and gone through so much more with me.
 
I just dont like it when others think they have to right to tell me what I must do, when it is I who must take responsibility for the fall out.
Just my thoughts this morning.
 
I do wish you the best.    



leadership527 -> RE: Careers and submission (9/28/2008 8:07:23 AM)

S-types should hold whatever job/life is most fulfilling, satisfying, and rewarding to them.  There is no "should" other than that.

Jobs are an expenditure of time.  For my wife, I control her time absolutely.  I see myself as having 48 hours every day in which I must somehow support the household, do the chores, earn any required money, satisfy both of our hobbies and interests, and, in the spare minutes here and there, spend some time on the relationship.  Even for me who has total control of his sub's time, it's not nearly so simple as saying, "you should quit."  Quite the contrary actually.  Exactly BECAUSE it is all my time, it's all my problem also. 

My S-type should give up her career if I, the leader who she has already acredited with excellent leadership skills, tells her to do so.  Not because I'm some cartoon caricature of a MASTER(tm).  But because she believes in my honor, judgement, and integrity and if I command her to do so, then it must be because I at least believe it'll be good for me/her/us.  Note though that this attitude comes from the standpoint of a long-term, live-in, committed relationship where our lives are already incredibly intertwined.  And yes, this has happened.  I have so commanded her only a few weeks ago.

And finally, to your specific problem.  Yes, sometimes careers interfere with relationships.  In my case, my career interfered pretty heavily with our marriage for at least 5 years (*sighs* wish I had understood the cost it was having much sooner).  Successful relationships weather the storm and come out stronger than when they started.  Insofar as who gives up the job when it's time to live together, that is the oldest problem in the book.  If you trust your D-type in this area, then let him make the decision.  If not, then you make it jointly.  But either way, the goal is not for one or the other partner to give up anything.  The goal is, as a team, to optimize the results for a long-term successful and happy relationship.

And yes, committed relationships are hard because now it matters.  No pain, no gain, neh?



catize -> RE: Careers and submission (9/28/2008 8:28:34 AM)

quote:

 For the s types do you think you should / would give up your career for your D type? Have you given up your career for a D type? Do you have a dominant role in your job? Are you comfy with it?   


I have always had to work as a necessity of survival and being able to do—oh those silly things like pay bills, buy groceries, have a roof over my head.
I don’t seem to attract men with a large enough income to provide for us both. 
The stress of my job often makes me wish I could quit. Truthfully, even if I was given the opportunity I don’t know if I could give up my salary.  To give up that security I would need to know how much money he makes and I would require a legal contract to cover the possibility that he would decide to end the relationship.  At my age, if I was out of the work force for several years I’m not sure I would be able to find another job in my chosen career.
Do I believe it is a test of submission to be dependant financially?  No I don’t because the practicalities all need to be considered.  There are too many ‘what ifs’ to make it a blanket statement. 
I’m not in a ‘dominant’ position in my job but people respect my opinions and I am able to be autonomous regarding when and how I do my work; I am not micro managed and, yes, I am comfy making my own decisions to get the job done.



kyraofMists -> RE: Careers and submission (9/28/2008 9:07:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
For the s types do you think you should / would give up your career for your D type? Have you given up your career for a D type? Do you have a dominant role in your job? Are you comfy with it? 
 


In my last job I was a manager of a department and I directly reported to a Senior Vice-President of the company who directly reports to the CFO.  The SVP was a strong manager and I enjoyed it; he left the company and my new boss was rather weak and I hated working for him.  I enjoy a leadership position as long as I have strong leadership.  If I have a weak leader then I don't like being a leader.

I very willingly gave all that up to move to Northern Canada to live with him and Alandra.  Giving up my job was the least of the issues.  I left the country I have always lived in and left the family that I grew up with.  They were the right decisions.

Sometimes, being true to who you are means that you have to make choices that you would rather not make.  Sometimes, it means letting go of who you think you are to be fulfilled.  Sometimes it is just a matter of shifting priorities.  For a long time, my job was my priority.  It is was I needed and wanted at the time.  Then one day, having a fulfilling, long-term relationship became the priority and I had to make different choices.

Knight's Kyra



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