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RE: New Computer Purchase Question - 9/28/2008 9:32:45 PM   
rexrgisformidoni


Posts: 578
Joined: 9/20/2008
Status: offline 		I have 2 dells, my laptop and my media center tower, and love them both. The laptop hinges kind of suck and need replaced, but it does everything I need it to do, and my media center is 3 years old and still runs better than most fresh from box machines. However I will agree my next laptop is going to be a mac because they so purty. not really but just the overall stability and lack of hiccups. 

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: New Computer Purchase Question - 9/28/2008 10:09:32 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline

HP DV6000 Laptop with Vista.

Stock, it's 64 bit hardware with a 32 bit operating system.

I installed Ubuntu 64 bit linux (Hardy), and it went from a plodding piece of crap to a screamer.

Screenshots:

Plain Desktop

The "Cube"

Cube with Collarme open.

Whatever you get, it'll only be better with Linux!

Firm

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to rexrgisformidoni)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: New Computer Purchase Question - 9/28/2008 11:03:46 PM   
DomDolf


Posts: 363
Joined: 7/11/2008
Status: offline 		Due to a few requests in email I am pasting comments I made. Below that is information for people interested in understanding the problems with Vista and additional information concerning, Linux, White Boxes (Custom PCs), Sony Vaio, eMachines and machines running slow that used to be fast. I hope the informations is helpful.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I prefer to special order from either Dell or HP and to ask for a XP downgrade-able machine. This means it will ship with both XP and Vista, but you will not install Vista until it either improves or goes away. Buying a machine at a local store will only buy you two weeks worth of assurance that you can take a machine back to them. After two weeks you have to go through the manufacturer anyway.

Order it with a minimum of 2GB of memory and if you decided to buy Vista anyway make sure you have at least double the hard drive space you feel you normally require and double the memory to 4GB. This allows for all the recovery features that Vista has to operate. They are hidden files that take up a lot of space.

Do not buy a Mac unless you are into audio, video or just snubbing your nose at the products that have 99% compatibility with all forms of software. Preaching Mac has become as popular as bashing the President with even less reason. Ha Ha

As soon as you get any machine remove Norton or McAfee Anti-virus and install Avast Anti-virus Home. Much faster, cleaner and effective. It is also free and available at avast.com. If you need anti-spyware and anti-malware. Use Malware Bytes and SuperAntiSpyware, both are free.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The problem with Vista is that when it was initially released it was released too soon. It was placed on hardware that would be great for Windows XP but not Vista. Microsoft screwed up by not making the right recommendations for hardware in the first place. Secondly, Vista does not share nicely with others. It's willingness to give control to others is near zero. This should be fine for many home users, but if you are on a network or require the use of legacy software be prepared for major issues.

Linux is great if you like hunting for and installing software that is under marketed and not always well documented. This would require a completely new education on how things work for most users also. There are many peripheral devices, such as printers that do not work well with Linux releases. I use Linux daily, but I am not an average user. I also have to go back to my Windows PC often to accomplish many tasks that just can't be done in Linux. No one is rooting for a Linux Distribution to succeed more than me, but it must do EVERYTHING Microsoft can do and have the same level of support before I recommend it. This is similar to my issues with Mac. Though Mac is better at doing much that Microsoft can, just not everything.

White Boxes are custom built machines. If you get the right person(s) to build your machine they can do great things, but it will cost you. Before entertaining this make sure you determine your builder's ability to replace any component that fails and to offer 24/7 support. When your PC breaks on Friday night you don't want to wait till Monday to get put on a list of customers that is back logged through Thursday already. You also don't want the person that built it to disappear six months later. Kinda negates the use of that three year warranty.

Sony Vaio is a top notch product and I highly recommend it, but it's not cheap. Excellent service and support also.

eMachines are trash. DO NOT WASTE YOUR MONEY.

Machines that run slow now but used to be fast can be fixed in about 1 Hour. I can provide anyone with assistance in getting that done, but cannot do this for free. I would have one of my technicians do this remotely (over the Internet). I can also provide anyone requesting one a CD with full instructions and software to do as my technicians would. I cannot do that for free either, but I will give a discount to anyone that writes me. NOTE: My employees do NOT know about BDSM, Ds, CM or anything in my private life and will not.

Dolf

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: New Computer Purchase Question - 9/28/2008 11:07:08 PM   
michaelOfGeorgia


Posts: 4253
Status: offline 		next time i have to buy a computer...i'm going with the MAC...tired of HP and their comparables


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(in reply to DomDolf)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: New Computer Purchase Question - 9/28/2008 11:21:47 PM   
DomDolf


Posts: 363
Joined: 7/11/2008
Status: offline 		Forgot to say this...

DO NOT BUY EQUIPMENT ON CLEARANCE WITH VISTA. Most likely this is the equipment that was originally manufactured at or under current specification from Microsoft for Vista.

If you buy a Mac make sure you get the name of a reputable repair person certified to work on Mac. When they do go they go hard. Mac techs often charge more to work on them. Supply and demand is a bitch sometimes. Only 1/4 of our techs are certified to work on Macs. We get calls on them daily. I had to work a guy on overtime Saturday to fix two of them. They were charged premiums to have it done then. Both Macs were less than six months old. Mac hasn't impressed me in any way other than their marketing. A properly configured PC will do as well or better than any Mac and I can get parts and service 24/7. The only reason they get less viruses is because those writing viruses attack the 89% share not the 8%.

Dolf

(in reply to michaelOfGeorgia)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: New Computer Purchase Question - 9/28/2008 11:33:01 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomDolf

Linux is great if you like hunting for and installing software that is under marketed and not always well documented. This would require a completely new education on how things work for most users also. There are many peripheral devices, such as printers that do not work well with Linux releases. I use Linux daily, but I am not an average user. I also have to go back to my Windows PC often to accomplish many tasks that just can't be done in Linux. No one is rooting for a Linux Distribution to succeed more than me, but it must do EVERYTHING Microsoft can do and have the same level of support before I recommend it. This is similar to my issues with Mac. Though Mac is better at doing much that Microsoft can, just not everything.


All of your post was good advice, but I find it funny that what it seems like you are saying about Linux is ... once it's no different from Windows, then you'd start recommending it?

I moved away from Linux because it wasn't "like" Windows.

I'm fairly new to Linux, and yes, sometimes you have to reorder how you think about things - primarily because it's not Windows! - but since I started back in the DOS 2.0 days, the command line wasn't frightening to me, although any GUI is generally "easier".

I've found with Ubuntu Linux that the biggest hurdle to adoption is simply that the paradigm about "how things should work" is based on a user's years of experience ... with Windows.

The Ubuntu distro has been making great strides in making things "easy" (ie, "Windows-like"). I've installed different versions of it on probably 10 to 15 different pc's and laptops, and if you are just using it for basic functions like internet browsing, spreadsheets and writing, it's better than an emachine or any other low end computer.

The two major issues have been wireless cards and certain video cards, and I'll admit those can be a bit of a pain to resolve, but once I figured out HOW to resolve them, then they aren't really much of a problem (I've spent as much time getting them to "play nice" on Windows over the years as well. Just different issues, and I had a higher "background knowledge" of how the Windows system works).

If you are a "power user" on Windows, then you will certainly run into issues with any Linux distro, primarily because you'll want to stretch the limits of any OS you may be using. I consider myself a power user, and as a result spent a lot of time figuring out the nuts and bolts of how Linux works.

But a power user usually has the ability and desire to figure out such things, anyway, so whether it's Linux, OpenSolaris, Windows or a Mac, changing OS's will still take a lot of effort.

But, if you are just an "everyday user", Ubuntu Linux will likely be a "install and run". And it will just work, faster and better than Windows.

And it cost a whole lot less as well.

Firm


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to DomDolf)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: New Computer Purchase Question - 9/28/2008 11:55:58 PM   
DomDolf


Posts: 363
Joined: 7/11/2008
Status: offline 		Not that it would be like Windows, but that it can do all that Windows can. Compatibility is the key.

I agree with most of what you are saying. What I do not agree with is that the everyday user will be okay with it. There are many everyday users that use programs like QuickBooks or are fully attached to their ________ program. The everyday user is less likely to transition well to any other platform. Those that can transition well are going to be very new and will likely look to others for help when they need it and may not be able to get it. The support lines they can call under Windows will not be there for them under Linux. The first time they call someone out to their home in a support capacity they could come close to the same price as purchasing an OS in the first place. One driver issue beyond the general "help" call will land them squarely in expensive. $300.00 for the PC and then $150.00 to get Linux working properly (average user) makes it as expensive as a lower level PC. Far less expensive than a Mac of course. I completely agree that the Power User will do okay with the Linux distro and may even enjoy the challenge. Most end-users don't like challenges and just want it to work.

Ubuntu is my favorite Linux distro and I use it on two machines at my office that are used strictly for Internet access.

Dolf


(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: New Computer Purchase Question - 9/29/2008 4:37:10 AM   
stella41b


Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline 		Bugger me, I'm in complete agreement with FirmhandKY. Greetings to the pair of you!

I'd forget about Windows and Microsoft altogether. If you cannot afford or get a Mac I would go for a reconditioned and run Linux on it.

I run PCLinuxOS which is from the Red Hat family and it's a stable system. Others I would recommend are Ubuntu, Mandriva, SuSE and Xandros (the full version is cheap). Most Linux systems are user friendly, far more so than Windows Vista and once installed all your packages can be downloaded, upgraded, installed and removed easily through a package manager free of charge. Most systems come with their own firewall and anti-virus, but you rarely have the same virus and security issues you have with XP or Vista.

Linux systems generally take up less hard drive space, the system itself will configure most things automatically, and unlike Windoze it won't spend time downloading useless crap from the Internet without your knowledge filling up your hard drive space.

For graphics and multimedia it's not a Mac but I would wager that in most cases Linux comes a pretty close second.

The only downside for Linux is that not all hardware is supported, which may be a problem for things like digital cameras, but usually when there's a problem there's also a solution.

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(in reply to DomDolf)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: New Computer Purchase Question - 9/29/2008 6:01:56 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Macs get a lot less viruses, most hackers don't aim to disrupt Macs.

Is your computer staying at home on a desk or do you need a laptop to take with you everywhere? Is weight an issue?

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Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: New Computer Purchase Question - 9/29/2008 7:12:02 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		They're not listening to you DomDolf...you are giving excellent advice to the average to even advanced user. They in return are saying..."See how smart I am"...instead of helping the original poster make a good decision in her purchase.

Butch


(in reply to DomDolf)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: New Computer Purchase Question - 9/29/2008 7:27:50 AM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

They're not listening to you DomDolf...you are giving excellent advice to the average to even advanced user. They in return are saying..."See how smart I am"...instead of helping the original poster make a good decision in her purchase.

Butch




Bullshit.

What is her level of experience, her expectations, her ability and her usage?

You are the one making assumptions in the absence of evidence.

You're making the assumption that she's incapable of taking information about any possibility other than a cheap Windows computer.

If all you know is Windows ... then Windows is "the best" choice.

If you have a hammer, all problems are nails.

Firm

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: New Computer Purchase Question - 9/29/2008 7:31:15 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

They're not listening to you DomDolf...you are giving excellent advice to the average to even advanced user. They in return are saying..."See how smart I am"...instead of helping the original poster make a good decision in her purchase.

Butch




Bullshit.

What is her level of experience, her expectations, her ability and her usage?

You are the one making assumptions in the absence of evidence.

You're making the assumption that she's incapable of taking information about any possibility other than a cheap Windows computer.

If all you know is Windows ... then Windows is "the best" choice.

If you have a hammer, all problems are nails.

Firm


You could be right..I did assume she is an average user... I assumed that because a power user would not come hear to ask for advice....Does that sound reasonable to you?

Butch

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: New Computer Purchase Question - 9/29/2008 11:32:11 AM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline 		So ... when does an "average user" become anything other than an "average user"?

If your desire is to keep someone in ignorance, and to perpetuate a particular product, then certainly ... put any discussion about any alternatives off-limits.

IF you go back and read, you'll see that I agreed with DD. I just made the point that Ubuntu has come a long way, and that it should at least be considered, depending on the needs and abilities of the user.

Firm

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: New Computer Purchase Question - 9/29/2008 11:43:00 AM   
BlackPhx


Posts: 3432
Joined: 11/8/2006
Status: offline 		97% of the programs you already have will run on Vista. there are still a few that don't but software publishers are catching up and releasing updates weekly. IF you go with Vista then op for either Vista Home Premium or Vista Business Ultimate, they both handle graphics extremely well and so far have not crashed on me once. ( I run VHP 64 on my laptop and VBU 32 on my desktop).

Do Not get less than a dual core system..with the fastest fsb you can get
Do not get less than 2 Gigs of memory, 8 is preferable with expansion room for more desirable
Get the largest hard drive you can afford
Do Not get less than 512MB of video, preferably 1 Gig if you go with a laptop do NOT get Shared Video

When you are looking at the computers go to start, right click computer,  preference, then look at the Windows experience rating. you do not want less than 4.5 if you can get it, the higher the numbers the better, but always click on Windows Experience Index and see what the lowest item rating is. Ask the sales man about getting the total higher and how.


While I have a preference for PC's over Macs I don't have any prejudices against them. I do so love those who say Macs are largely immune to viruses'..their not. It is just for those who write a virus there are more PC targets that will disrupt a business than Apples, and they want to hurt business's and people. It is a foolish person who doesn't have an anti virus and firewall installed, but you would be surprised at how many I run into.

poenkitten

(in reply to califsue)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: New Computer Purchase Question - 9/29/2008 11:52:07 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

So ... when does an "average user" become anything other than an "average user"?

If your desire is to keep someone in ignorance, and to perpetuate a particular product, then certainly ... put any discussion about any alternatives off-limits.

IF you go back and read, you'll see that I agreed with DD. I just made the point that Ubuntu has come a long way, and that it should at least be considered, depending on the needs and abilities of the user.

Firm


First FirmhandKY you assumed I was talking about you...that was not the case...at least with your first post...so you must deep down agree with my assumption.

But lets not argue and hog the thread...I am sorry I hurt your feelings... but you must admit you are touchy...and I'll admit I was somewhat pompous…lets call it even.

Butch

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: New Computer Purchase Question - 9/29/2008 11:57:31 AM   
BlackPhx


Posts: 3432
Joined: 11/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomDolf


The problem with Vista is that when it was initially released it was released too soon. It was placed on hardware that would be great for Windows XP but not Vista. Microsoft screwed up by not making the right recommendations for hardware in the first place. Secondly, Vista does not share nicely with others. It's willingness to give control to others is near zero. This should be fine for many home users, but if you are on a network or require the use of legacy software be prepared for major issues.


Dolf



Actually Dolf, Vista does play nice with others. My Home Office networks includes
Vista Home Premium (Laptop 1(mine))
Vista Business  Basic (Laptop 2 (Masters))
Windows XP Pro (Laptop 3 (Masters))
Vista Business Ultimate (desktop 1 (Mine))
Windows XP Pro (desktop 2 (Masters))
Linux Ubunto (desktop 3 (Server) (Masters))

Master uses his VBB laptop  to access machines that control data feeds from gas tank gauses such as Wayne Nucleus, Rubys and Topaz's as well as POS systems for work. He also access's the servers and network in his offices from the field.  Add in Live Mesh and I can do anything on my desktop, run any program, (games are sluggish but that is Active X), update, open files, download emails and access anything on my home system and any other computer set up as a device or shared to my laptop, even from California.  Just a matter of passwords and permissions.

ALL of our machines talk with one another and can be remotely controlled by the others with the right permissions, and all access our network printer as well.

poenkitten

(in reply to DomDolf)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: New Computer Purchase Question - 9/29/2008 2:10:11 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

So ... when does an "average user" become anything other than an "average user"?

If your desire is to keep someone in ignorance, and to perpetuate a particular product, then certainly ... put any discussion about any alternatives off-limits.

IF you go back and read, you'll see that I agreed with DD. I just made the point that Ubuntu has come a long way, and that it should at least be considered, depending on the needs and abilities of the user.

Firm


First FirmhandKY you assumed I was talking about you...that was not the case...at least with your first post...so you must deep down agree with my assumption.

But lets not argue and hog the thread...I am sorry I hurt your feelings... but you must admit you are touchy...and I'll admit I was somewhat pompous…lets call it even.

Butch


Close enough. Done.

Firm


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: New Computer Purchase Question - 9/29/2008 3:25:46 PM   
DomDolf


Posts: 363
Joined: 7/11/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BlackPhx

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomDolf


The problem with Vista is that when it was initially released it was released too soon. It was placed on hardware that would be great for Windows XP but not Vista. Microsoft screwed up by not making the right recommendations for hardware in the first place. Secondly, Vista does not share nicely with others. It's willingness to give control to others is near zero. This should be fine for many home users, but if you are on a network or require the use of legacy software be prepared for major issues.


Dolf



Just a matter of passwords and permissions.

ALL of our machines talk with one another and can be remotely controlled by the others with the right permissions, and all access our network printer as well.



And how many average users understand the term permissions and all it's implications?

My point is that they don't just work right out of the box and they are harder to understand than an OS that is already in use by the user. 2000 to XP wasn't too difficult a transition. XP to Vista is a completely different story. I can make Any machine talk to another. I have the experience and skills as do some power users. This doesn't mean it is okay for the average user. I hope my intentions and comments are now clearer. My company gets paid to make any piece of crap work, but I wouldn't approve of or recommend doing it usually.

Edited to add... Vista may (likely) force an upgrade of some software that a user may not be aware of or prepared for. Anyway, take the advice or leave it, it's coming from a very diverse and experienced background in all situations from grandma's email machine to the kid's gamer on up to the servers that run the financial institutions and web sites that millions use daily. From the one machine shop to the multi LAN, WAN, MAN, VPN connected by everything from Trendnet to Cisco. From the $200 piece of junk to the "I coulda bought a house" systems.  I am offering good advice in my not quite humble opinion.

The number one mistake that technicians tend to make is to OVER estimate the customers ability or willingness to get to "know" the technology and make it work best for them. Just because it's easy for you doesn't mean it is for them. We all have or niches and we all have our talents. Few can say they are thrilled to receive a challenge from a computer. Technicians that think that it's easy and anyone that doesn't get it is "stupid", "ignorant", "dumb", "lazy" or any other degrading term will keep working the bench in the back room and not ever be allowed to speak to my customers. Great talent on the technology, lousy understanding of the psychology behind customer service, support, and consulting. This makes for poor customer relations and very poor sales ability. They have limited their ability to excel.

The long rant comes from the dealing with this mentality daily. I have those technicians that are kept in the back rooms and not allowed to interact with customers.

Dolf

< Message edited by DomDolf -- 9/29/2008 3:48:25 PM >

(in reply to BlackPhx)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: New Computer Purchase Question - 9/29/2008 5:28:42 PM   
BlackPhx


Posts: 3432
Joined: 11/8/2006
Status: offline 		I agree believe it or not..Master is the Geek..I am the Nerd  OK I geek a bit. I do not understand Linux, and I am a beta tester of hardware and software for companies because if it can be broken I will find the way to do it. I am a 55 year old graphics designer, web development (self taught) person and a writer (semi-pro) not a builder of computers. Vista worked for me out the box and I learned what to look for and how to do things in it the same way everyone  else without a tech degree or a handbook (not included with Vista) did. Hunt, find, help menu etc. Now I can make it get up and Dance so to speak. I also love that Vista takes dictation and opens programs via voice control without Dragon Naturally Speaking or Jaws. You don't even need to know where the program is found on a menu..just speak into the mic and tell it to open, close, etc any program on your computer.

Yes some software will require upgrading, updating. The same will be true if the OP goes with a Mac, there are always upgrades and learning curves. If the OP is used to XP, Vista can and will look exactly like it while the person is learning if they want it to, ANd you can get machines with XP installed with a upgrade disk of Vista for when you are ready to go for it.

poenkitten

(in reply to DomDolf)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: New Computer Purchase Question - 9/29/2008 6:58:10 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		As with the above poster, I can only speak from my own experience using the products... they are pieces of equipment, not religions. Turn them on, and figure them out.  I quit worrying about how they were designed when I tossed out my last Cobol programmer's guide.

After a year with a decent Vista machine doing pro music recording as well as daily internet stuff, I've still not had any problems that were in any way shape or form different from XP, ME,. 98, or the machine I built myself running 95.

And as pointed out above, if someone sticks with XP they are dooming themselves to chasing a dwindling supply of stuff still compatible with it down the road, as opposed to the growing number of Vista updated products. 

(in reply to BlackPhx)
Profile   Post #: 40
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