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corysub -> Congress 3 USA 0 (9/29/2008 3:17:32 AM)
Congress 3 USA 0 And so the Presidents proposal, the thoughtful words of Paulson, take second place to a Congress insuring that it continues to strengthen it's power. The result of "polls" is how our once great nation is being manged by our cowardly representatives. All this political bull about "protecting the taxpayer"..sounds good, but anyone who has reached the age of reason knows that "protecting Congress, protecting the power of their party and their re-election (democrats and republicans share in this disaster) is really at the heart of the watered down program that might have had a chance to save our fragile financial system. This was never the "bailout", a word that fits nicely on the boob tube, it was to "save our financial system". This program was never made understandable to the public. To thyne own self be true! Look in the mirror, look in the mirror and think of your families, and ask yourselves "what the hell do I know about financial markets, about CDO's about MBS's, that's anymore than what the public has been hearing on CNN or worse, on an internet chat page"? As our financial system collapses and takes the economy of our once strong country down with it, history will record this time, not as Churchill said, but "this was NOT their finest hour"! We have a government interested in serving the most stupid people in our country and making sure they water down our security. Sure, destroy the Power of the Executive Branch so that a woman elected with under 300,000 votes from one of the wierdest areas of our Country can dictate how this nation is made secure! Shame on them! How does any of this make us safe? We are going to the nonesense of "saving the planet" as Ms. Pelosi has said, but have no focus on "saving our economy, our country". More basic than that..."our jobs". Is this what it was like in the final days in the Roman Senate...Greed, corruption, self-interest, special interest, decimate the army and depend on mercenaries, and on, and on, and on.... We are all poorer in terms of national pride. To quote that incompetent, immature but charismatic Barrack Obama, "America is not that shining light on the hill". Sadly, I find my self agreeing with this empty suit who will probably be in the oval office in January, a President elected by the likes of Wolf Blitzer, Chris Matthews, Keith Obermann, and the great unwashed. http://adspotlight.nationaljournal.com/2008/07/shining_a_light.php

Aileen1968 -> RE: Congress 3 USA 0 (9/29/2008 3:28:31 AM)
It's really not that bad...if you enjoy getting ass fucked without lube.

LadyEllen -> RE: Congress 3 USA 0 (9/29/2008 3:36:50 AM)
As corrupted as it might be, it is surely better to have your Congress oversee and put limitations and control on all this, than it would be to simply hand the matter over to a small group of people whose positions are just as much - possibly even more characterised by self interest than the members of the Congress and who have amply demonstrated that they do not warrant such trust, or indeed the power they sought to inhabit? Representative government is not perfect, but apparently it was thought better enough than handing absolute power to one person or a small cabal of people that we beheaded our King at one time and the American colonies kicked another out. E

pahunkboy -> RE: Congress 3 USA 0 (9/29/2008 4:36:12 AM)
There was no alternative plans. The scheme is THEFT. The dollar will deflate and buy 50% less. Workers 1st have their 401k gutted, and now get to pay for the gutting. If anyone is on Social Security- those checks are now at risk. This is another Katrina!

Musicmystery -> RE: Congress 3 USA 0 (9/29/2008 4:48:12 AM)
cory, Some call it "listening to the people you serve." It's their job.

unDEAD -> RE: Congress 3 USA 0 (9/29/2008 5:42:49 AM)
Haha, my favorite part of this whole circus was Georgie's address. Specifically when he told the nation they were going to be taking our money (i.e. the bailout) and loaning it back at a percentage to stimulate the economy! Lol. It's robbery in broad daylight (much like the Gold Reserve and non fiat currency) and the funniest part is that not one of us are going to do a damn thing about it. Just remember, bailing out the banks isn't socialism, as many are calling it. It's not a bailout so much as a merger. What does one call the merger of Government and corporations? Mussolini called it FASCISM.

corysub -> RE: Congress 3 USA 0 (9/29/2008 5:48:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery cory, Some call it "listening to the people you serve." It's their job. It is the "job" of politicians to listen to the people they serve, in my opinion too...so I agree with you. However, as I see it, a "statesman" is a person who "leads"...who stands by his or her principles in the face of public opinion polls to accomplish a result. Every major decision that has been made in creating, building and protecting America was done by people who stood above the crowd and took action. The revolutionary war, the civil war (the public wanted Lincoln to reach an armistace with the South after the first few years of that horrible war, FDR getting America into the fight against the Nazi with "lend lease" getting around restrictions on the Presidency, to probably Iraq, but we will have to wait for historians to grade this one. It gets even more simple than that...we all know stories of local officials who know that they have a dangerous intersection in town...and yet the stop signs don't go up until someone is killed. I guess we have to wait for the "killing of our economy" for Washington to get the message. Look..no one has the answers..but at least we should try to come up with our own ideas based on our own research and view of the world. I do know that if I go into a poker game "undercapitalized" the odds are that I am going home with my shirt on if I'm lucky. Our financial system is "undercapitalize" for the risks on their balance sheets brought about by over-leverage, and also accounting standards that force institutions to value assets at "market prices" when there is "no market"! The fully funded $700 billion program might have been a way to bring stability and unfreeze these markets. Remember, these are mortgages we are talking about ...for the moment..and the bulk of people are paying their mortgages so these instruments have real value. For example, Merrill Lynch was being forced to value these assets at firesale levels of around 20% on the dollar, assets that were worth probably twice or more that level. You should see that "mark to market rule" eliminated soon...at least I hope so. Right or left is not the issue...being touted IS the issue. Why do people believe that the their Congressperson or media pundits know EVERYTHING about EVERYTHING..experts on war, experts on healthcare, experts on the economy, experts on planet change, experts on getting themselves elected

LadyEllen -> RE: Congress 3 USA 0 (9/29/2008 6:05:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: corysub Why do people believe that the their Congressperson or media pundits know EVERYTHING about EVERYTHING..experts on war, experts on healthcare, experts on the economy, experts on planet change, experts on getting themselves elected Regrettably (or perhaps luckily) there are no special ability or knowledge requirements to stand, get elected and do the job of representing one's electorate. In theory, the village idiot from some town in Texas could be President for instance - it just depends if people trust him to represent them. E

kittinSol -> RE: Congress 3 USA 0 (9/29/2008 6:16:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen In theory, the village idiot from some town in Texas could be President for instance - it just depends if people trust him to represent them. God forbid such a thing should ever happen. Thankfully, the electorate has far too much common sense [&:] .

Musicmystery -> RE: Congress 3 USA 0 (9/29/2008 7:29:42 AM)
quote: Why do people believe that the their Congressperson or media pundits know EVERYTHING about EVERYTHING..experts on war, experts on healthcare, experts on the economy, experts on planet change, experts on getting themselves elected Because they are OUR voice in Congress--and we've a right to choose whomever we wish. And Congress' job is to stand up to the President---a job they refused to do since 2000 until recently. And about time. It's called the balance of powers. Sure, the president can "lead," but he needs to convince us. He hasn't---and this one is infamous for lying. My own House representative is a long term Republican member. Not his first day on the job.

DarkSteven -> RE: Congress 3 USA 0 (9/29/2008 7:35:00 AM)
Just wanted to mention that Section 122 of the bailout bill raises the debt ceiling by 1.3 trillion. The goobers just DOUBLED the amount they're stealing from us. Congress actually managed to make the bill TWICE as bad as it had been.

Musicmystery -> RE: Congress 3 USA 0 (9/29/2008 7:47:09 AM)
Not just Congress. Economists were saying $1 Trillion plus last week. In a $7 trillion dollar economy. Theft indeed. And people want to follow the President. Well, it IS a mess now, and the question is WHAT to do. Enjoy your $600 tax rebate?

rexrgisformidoni -> RE: Congress 3 USA 0 (9/29/2008 7:52:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: Why do people believe that the their Congressperson or media pundits know EVERYTHING about EVERYTHING..experts on war, experts on healthcare, experts on the economy, experts on planet change, experts on getting themselves elected Because they are OUR voice in Congress--and we've a right to choose whomever we wish. And Congress' job is to stand up to the President---a job they refused to do since 2000 until recently. And about time. It's called the balance of powers. Sure, the president can "lead," but he needs to convince us. He hasn't---and this one is infamous for lying. My own House representative is a long term Republican member. Not his first day on the job. Congress effectivley abandoned its check of presidential powers in the nixon years, the true start of the "imperial presidency" as some political scientists call it. And the really crappy thing is that alot of that seven trillion dollar debt is held as bonds by foreign entities, who at any minute could decide we have effectively defaulted and call their chips in, then we'd really be screwed.

Musicmystery -> RE: Congress 3 USA 0 (9/29/2008 7:55:56 AM)
Yup.

rexrgisformidoni -> RE: Congress 3 USA 0 (9/29/2008 8:00:36 AM)
Hurray Music and I agree on something!

rulemylife -> RE: Congress 3 USA 0 (9/29/2008 8:14:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: corysub It is the "job" of politicians to listen to the people they serve, in my opinion too...so I agree with you. However, as I see it, a "statesman" is a person who "leads"...who stands by his or her principles in the face of public opinion polls to accomplish a result. Every major decision that has been made in creating, building and protecting America was done by people who stood above the crowd and took action................................. ................................................................................................................................................................... Right or left is not the issue...being touted IS the issue. Why do people believe that the their Congressperson or media pundits know EVERYTHING about EVERYTHING..experts on war, experts on healthcare, experts on the economy, experts on planet change, experts on getting themselves elected Are politicians expert on all these issues? No. I disagree that we don't have a right to expect that. It's their job. I don't expect them to be able to write an economics dissertation, but I expect a hell of a lot more than John McCain, after 26 years in national office, saying he really doesn't understand the economy. Which is not meant to single him out, but would you hire someone that openly admitted he doesn't understand the basics of his job? I don't want someone to lead me. I want someone to serve the interests of the people. We are supposed to be a representative democracy, yet instead of treating these people, including the President, as representatives we want to put them on a pedestal as if somehow they had superior qualities that require them to be treated as a pseudo-monarch and feudal lords. Which is the only thing I truly like about Dubya. He proves any idiot can be President.

kittinSol -> RE: Congress 3 USA 0 (9/29/2008 8:16:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife Which is the only thing I truly like about Dubya. It proves any idiot can be President. Well, any idiot with a rich and powerful daddy.

rulemylife -> RE: Congress 3 USA 0 (9/29/2008 8:25:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife Which is the only thing I truly like about Dubya. It proves any idiot can be President. Well, any idiot with a rich and powerful daddy. can't forget grandaddy Preston either

slvemike4u -> RE: Congress 3 USA 0 (9/29/2008 8:39:21 AM)
Cory it sounds to me like you actually trust the President and Paulson on this.Paulson was trying to usurp more power than even a wartime President.Three pages cory,three pages and he had enough room in those three pages to put in a clause making him and his decisions bulletproof.Congress was doing their job when the rejected that bold faced power grab..Not one of us ever voted for Paulson,and none of us were ever on the Board of Goldman-Sachs(that I know of)oversight and accountability is not too much to ask when cutting a 700 Billion dollar check,and any man with the temerity to ask for those funds demanding complete discretion and no judicial review is quite simply a crook...albeit with a big set of balls.

corysub -> RE: Congress 3 USA 0 (9/29/2008 7:05:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: corysub It is the "job" of politicians to listen to the people they serve, in my opinion too...so I agree with you. However, as I see it, a "statesman" is a person who "leads"...who stands by his or her principles in the face of public opinion polls to accomplish a result. Every major decision that has been made in creating, building and protecting America was done by people who stood above the crowd and took action................................. ................................................................................................................................................................... Right or left is not the issue...being touted IS the issue. Why do people believe that the their Congressperson or media pundits know EVERYTHING about EVERYTHING..experts on war, experts on healthcare, experts on the economy, experts on planet change, experts on getting themselves elected Are politicians expert on all these issues? No. I disagree that we don't have a right to expect that. It's their job. I don't expect them to be able to write an economics dissertation, but I expect a hell of a lot more than John McCain, after 26 years in national office, saying he really doesn't understand the economy. Which is not meant to single him out, but would you hire someone that openly admitted he doesn't understand the basics of his job? I don't want someone to lead me. I want someone to serve the interests of the people. We are supposed to be a representative democracy, yet instead of treating these people, including the President, as representatives we want to put them on a pedestal as if somehow they had superior qualities that require them to be treated as a pseudo-monarch and feudal lords. Which is the only thing I truly like about Dubya. He proves any idiot can be President. You must have really enjoyed the Carter years. Such a nice guy, trying to serve the people, than he gave up on the people. No sir, give me a leader, not a "server" to the people.

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